Melisandre's towers by the sea

[Rooseman]

In ADWD, we get a glimpse into what Melisandre sees when she looks into her flames. Among those visions, there's this one:

 

Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. (ADWD, Melisandre)

 

Later in the chapter, she shows off her unparalleled skills in interpreting those visions.

 

"If it comes, that attack will be no more than a diversion. I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall."

"Eastwatch?"

Was it? Melisandre had seen Eastwatch-by-the-Sea with King Stannis. That was where His Grace left Queen Selyse and their daughter Shireen when he assembled his knights for the march to Castle Black. The towers in her fire had been different, but that was oft the way with visions. "Yes. Eastwatch, my lord." (ADWD, Melisandre)

 

There have been many suggestions about where these towers might be. The only thing that seems clear is that it's not Eastwatch.

The wording is quite curious, since the towers seem to be swallowed up by the sea. This is not the first time that we had a vision like that. Here's what Jojen saw back in ACOK:

 

I dreamed that the sea was lapping all around Winterfell. I saw black waves crashing against the gates and towers, and then the salt water came flowing over the walls and filled the castle. (ACOK, Bran V)

 

The waves weren't literal, instead they indicated an attack of the Ironborn.

But there's more. Let's have a look at the exact quote again:

 

I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. (ADWD, Melisandre I)

 

Let's see if there have been other instances where something similar has been described. Coincidentally we hear about this from another Red Priest, Moqorro:

 

"Have you seen these others in your fires?" he asked, warily.

"Only their shadows," Moqorro said. "One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood." (ADWD, Tyrion VIII)

 

Moqorro is clearly describing Euron here. So now we have two visions which share some striking similarities to what Melisandre saw, and are connected to the Ironborn.

Euron's men are currently raiding and pillaging along the Mander, dangerously close to Oldtown.

If Melisandre's vision does indeed refer to Oldtown, this raises some questions, though.

The first one is that Oldtown really is only known for one tower, the Hightower, and Melisandre spoke of towers, plural.
But hold on, we've already established that her vision might be symbolic, rather than literal. In addition to that, we get a ton of examples in the books where people are being symbolically represented through their house sigils.
So what if her vision didn't represent actual towers, but people whose family sigil is a tower? I think you guessed it, House Hightower of Oldtown has a giant tower on their sigil.

Lord Leyton is currently residing inside the actual Hightower, together with his eldest daughter Malora, the Mad Maid. What are they doing there?

 

Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. (AFFC, Samwell V)

 

Spells you said, eh? Don't they know that magic is like a sword without a hilt? I hope you Hightowers know what you're doing.

Anyway, so the vision might or might not actually refer to them, big deal. The question is, why would Melisandre be seeing any of this? Why is Oldtown relevant to her storyline? Shouldn't she be more concerned with what's going on in the North, namely the upcoming attack of the Others and their wights? Doesn't she know that there are already dead things in the water up at Hardhome? Shouldn't this be more important than what's happening somewhere in the South?

Which brings me to the continuation of the passage from Samwell's chapter, where the captain of the Cinnamon Wind jokes about what Lord Leyton might be trying to achieve with his spells.

 

To be sure. Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he'll raise an army from the deeps. (AFFC, Samwell V)

 

Well, shit.

If this is some sneaky foreshadowing by GRRM, then Lord Leyton and Malora might end up breaking the protective spells that keep the Others from raising the dead south of the Wall or something.

TL;DR Melisandre is seeing Oldtown, because as a response to Euron's attack, Lord Leyton and his daughter the Mad Maid will use some black magic to raise an army from the deeps, which - surprisingly - might backfire.

[The Mountain That Flies]

This is brilliant, and I love it.

[Ser Creighton]

Well I think your on the right track, but the location is more than likely Harrenhal which was built by the Iron Born and reflects Jojen's vision. Also the tower of Harrenhal are crumbling and it is a central location to the story.

[A Bastard Snow]

Yea Oldtown is my guess.

On a side note Obara will be happy.

[hiemal]

Oooooh, I got shivers. Love it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Is Melisandre... are we even sure she's seeing towers and not giraffes??

[hiemal]

Is Melisandre... are we even sure she's seeing towers and not giraffes??

Just picturing Melisandre at the zoo, looking at all the firewood on the hoof.

[Muttwarger]

I think the towers are the three towers at the mouth of Whispering Sound where it meets the Redwyne straits- pointedly mentioned in Sam's last chapter in A Feast For Crows. And yes, the dark & bloody tide is the Ironborn, led by Euron, probably with some magical badassery going on.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

"Towers by the sea" makes me think of the Iron Islands, initially Ten Towers, but also Pyke, and the mention of a dark or black tide is reminiscent of Jojen's vision of the Ironborn. Euron wants Dany and the Iron Throne for himself, and offered Victarion Pyke for his troubles fetching his bride, but as Victarion likes to remind himself, Euron's gifts are poison. Victarion initially defied Euron, standing against him at the Kingsmoot, and Rodrik the Reader defied him as well, and Euron does not strike me as the sort to let bygones be bygones. I think it is possible Euron will be the one to use black magic to raise an army, bringing down some if not all of the Iron Islands in the process.

At the risk of sounding a wee bit tin foily, Euron has been to Asshai. Melisandre is from Asshai, and had ended up with Stannis Baratheon, Master of Ships, who played a key roll in putting down the Greyjoy Rebellion. Seeing how well Melisandre's guidance has served Stannis so far, I would not at all be surprised to learn she has been deliberately misleading Stannis; after all, eliminating Stannis's rivals for the Iron Throne also elimates Dany's rivals, which would undoubtedly please her self-proclaimed King-to-be.

Of course, given Melisandre's unparalleled vision interpretation skills, she could easily be foretelling the destruction of a child's sandcastle, but she could also be seeing Oldtown, or any other number of towers by the sea. But it is definitely most likely not Eastwatch.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Ok, seriously speaking, why would Melisandre see something that is not near them? :dunno:

 

"Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depth"

 

"Rising by the depth" is a very common allegory used to described dead rising, which is the imminent danger they are facing there.

 

The "towers by the sea" HAVE TO BE Eastwatch-by-the-sea.  Because that's exactly the message Jon received: "dead things in the water". They're about to be attacked by a swarm of wights coming from the sea, and EbtS will be the first target.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I'm so petty that I have to say I came up with this theory long ago (in my old account):

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/95229-oldtown-will-fall-the-prophecy-proves/

Guess great minds think alike, etc

[Fire Eater]

I think it refers to Euron attacking Oldtown as well. However, I don't think it will be an army from the deeps that repels the Ironborn given GRRM opposes using large-scale magic to win a battle or war. I think it comes down more to Sam putting an arrow in Euron's eye, and Aegon arriving to aid Oldtown.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'm so petty that I have to say I came up with this theory long ago (in my old account):

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/95229-oldtown-will-fall-the-prophecy-proves/

Guess great minds think alike, etc

 

You pronounce the "J" of Jon as "Sh" like the Ches, right? I just got "Jon of the Dead" :lol:

[Good Guy Garlan]

You pronounce the "J" of Jon as "Sh" like the Ches, right? I just got "Jon of the Dead" :lol:

http://media.giphy.com/media/Zw3oBUuOlDJ3W/giphy.gif

[Amris]

Your theory is absolutely possible, no question.

 

The details of Mel's prophecy are so unspecific however that it can mean really any invasion coming from or over the sea.

 

For instance the Crumbling Towers by the Sea could as well refer to the Blackfyre / Aegon landing and taking of the various castles in the south - and especially Storm's End.

 

The Targ sigil is black and red ('black and bloody tide'). And the Golden Company is coming from the sea (just like the Ironborn did in Winterfell) to take those towers.

 

I cheerfully admit that I am completely biased since I dislike the Euron and Victarion storylines and prefer anything that does not include them :P

 

 

 

 

[Ser Creighton]

Ok, seriously speaking, why would Melisandre see something that is not near them? :dunno:

 

"Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depth"

 

"Rising by the depth" is a very common allegory used to described dead rising, which is the imminent danger they are facing there.

 

The "towers by the sea" HAVE TO BE Eastwatch-by-the-sea.  Because that's exactly the message Jon received: "dead things in the water". They're about to be attacked by a swarm of wights coming from the sea, and EbtS will be the first target.

Mel is looking for where the Others will strike, she believes their hardest blow will fall at this unknown location. So it does not have to be near them and for me it would seem odd that the Iron Born are replacing the Others as the enemy. She may misread what she sees but from what we have seen it answers her questions, and her question is about the Others. It would mean they get past the wall.

 

If it is the Iron Born Old Town is the most likely answer if it is the Others then my belief is the big battle will be near Harrenhal the Godseye and the Trident as Harrenhal is associated with the Iron Born. And the location is one of the most significant in the books. Oldtown is already a given, we already know Euron plans to attack and has been attacking Oldtown.

 

Saying Euron will attack Oldtown is like Saying Robert will fight Rhaegar at the Ruby ford.

[The Drunkard]

While on Dragonstone all of her visions involved Stannis' political situation, attempts on her life, or what was going on at the Wall. Generally they seem to involve either her present situation or the greater war against the Others, rather than her getting random visions of things that don't concern her, unlike, say, the dwarf in the Riverlands (perhaps this is why she is the best in her order?).

 

In this chapter, the other visions she receives refer to the Weeper's victims, what are presumably dragons, Alys Karstark, Bloodraven and Bran, the undead attacking what is almost certainly Hardhome, and (repeatedly) Jon being surrounded by skulls and shadows. Everything other than dragons immediately pertains to the Wall, and inevitably the dragons will as well. (Also, she stops receiving visions about Stannis, who not-so-coincidentally is no longer nearby).

 

So, I'm unsure why she would now be having visions of Euron and Oldtown, when they seemingly relate to neither the Wall nor the Others.

[Mithras]

“Scared? Of what? The chidings of old men? Sam, you saw the wights come swarming up the Fist, a tide of living dead men with black hands and bright blue eyes. You slew an Other."

 

Dead things in the woods. Dead things in the water. Cotter Pyke reported them both and I think they are both present in Mel’s visions. “Dead things shambling silent through the cold, beneath a great grey cliff where fires burned inside a hundred caves” should refer to the dead things in the woods at Hardhome. “The dark tide rising from the depths” should refer to the dead things in the water. I don’t think the towers in the vision have anything to do with the Hightowers.

 

They tell of pale blue mists that move across the waters, mists so cold that any ship they pass over is frozen instantly; of drowned spirits who rise at night to drag the living down into the grey-green depths; of mermaids pale of flesh with black-scaled tails, far more malign than their sisters of the south.

 

These could be the dead things in the water.

 

“We’ve had a raven from Ser Denys Mallister at the Shadow Tower,” Jon Snow told her. “His men have seen fires in the mountains on the far side of the Gorge. Wildlings massing, Ser Denys believes. He thinks they are going to try to force the Bridge of Skulls again.”

“Some may.” Could the skulls in her vision have signified this bridge? Somehow Melisandre did not think so. “If it comes, that attack will be no more than a diversion. I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall.”

“Eastwatch?”

Was it? Melisandre had seen Eastwatch-by-the-Sea with King Stannis. That was where His Grace left Queen Selyse and their daughter Shireen when he assembled his knights for the march to Castle Black. The towers in her fire had been different, but that was oft the way with visions. “Yes. Eastwatch, my lord.”

 

If Mel did not think so, we should definitely consider that option as the most reliable one. The danger Mel was shown might point to the expected attack of the Weeper to the Shadow Tower. And it is at the complete opposite of where Mel erroneously told Jon as the place of the expected attack.

 

I think the Weeper will succeed in breaching the Wall. Westwatch-by-the-Bridge, Shadow Tower, Sentinel Stand, and even the Greyguard will fall one by one. The Weeper will put the garrison to the sword. So, there will be a huge part of the Wall undefended by the sworn brothers and maybe that will create an opening for the Others. A combined attack from the dead things in the woods and in the water will sweep over whatever left at the western end of the Wall.

[desire]

I always took it as Pyke but this does make a done of sense.

[A Bastard Snow]

For people who think Oldtown is unrelated.

Sam is at Oldtown possibly with the Horn.Jaquen Hagar is also at Oldtown doing something involving dragons.Euron is also on his way.Sarella Sand is also in Oldtown.So we have multiple plots all converging in Oldtown.Many of which threaten Jon (Sam dying losing the horn,The FM doing shady shit with dragon eggs,Euron who wants dragons and Dany.)