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redtree

North vs Reach, who has the best fighter ?

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So far Northerner has more experience in battlefield but the Reach is the heart of chivalry and they do love the tourney, melee and all that sword pageantry stuff.

Which region do you think has the better fighter ? (not commander, but strictly from fighting skill)
If there were 7v7 trial by combat in which 7 northerner v 7 knights of the Reach, who'd you pick and who'd win ?

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Most likely the Reach. Larger population to choose from, more nobles with better training and equipment means a greater number of warriors to pick from.

 

The 7 best from each Region should be the Reach however a random 7vs 7 from each region could go anyway.

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Most likely the Reach. Larger population to choose from, more nobles with better training and equipment means a greater number of warriors to pick from.

 

The 7 best from each Region should be the Reach however a random 7vs 7 from each region could go anyway.

I would also go with the Reach given the points you've made. On the other hand on any season besides summer the Northerners may have the edge because as Catelyn points out "It's autumn and the knights of summer are falling like leaves". The Northerners while they may not have the advantage in numbers, weapons and even training are at least more hardier than their southern counterparts and in winter especially those sweet summer Reachmen who have always been too used to the comforts of the south would be no match against the winter breed Northerners. 

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The Reach has the better individual fighters compared to the North. 

1 v 1, I would put my money on Reach. 

In 7 v 7 fight however,  anything can happen,  but I will back the Northerners becoz we have seen the North fight and they will fight till death. 

As Cat put it,  these are the knights of Summer and they can't sustain against the winters of the North. 

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Garlan > all your northern faves

I'am not a big fan of northerners, but I believe Great Jon Umber would flatten Garlan without breaking a sweat. Hell even arrogant Jamie named him as one of few people that could beat him in a fight.

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I'am not a big fan of northerners, but I believe Great Jon Umber would flatten Garlan without breaking a sweat. Hell even arrogant Jamie named him as one of few people that could beat him in a fight.

Maybe. A man who uses food as a deadly weapon earns my respect, not to mention that the Freys actually made it an important part of their plan to get him drunk. 

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I'am not a big fan of northerners, but I believe Great Jon Umber would flatten Garlan without breaking a sweat. Hell even arrogant Jamie named him as one of few people that could beat him in a fight.

Jaime named him as a person who was stronger, not who could beat him in a fight. Maybe he could beat Jaime though, if he made it more of a wrestling contest, ala Dunk.

I would also go with the Reach given the points you've made. On the other hand on any season besides summer the Northerners may have the edge because as Catelyn points out "It's autumn and the knights of summer are falling like leaves". The Northerners while they may not have the advantage in numbers, weapons and even training are at least more hardier than their southern counterparts and in winter especially those sweet summer Reachmen who have always been too used to the comforts of the south would be no match against the winter breed Northerners. 

I think Catelyn's 'Knights of Summer' thing referred more to the attitude of Renly's host, rather than any comment on skill or hardiness or whatever. Frankly though, I think the Northerners were just as naive before they set out.

I'd definitely go with the Reach, for the reasons thelittledragonthatcould pointed out.

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I think we had something  similar happen in history. It was called the Combat of the Thirty, 15 Knights from France v 15 Knights from England.

Here the country more pre-disposed towards chivalry (France/Reach) triumphed over the northern neighbour although it was a close run thing. In fact the Northeners were leading at 'halftime' with 4 kills to 2.

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I think Catelyn's 'Knights of Summer' thing referred more to the attitude of Renly's host, rather than any comment on skill or hardiness or whatever. Frankly though, I think the Northerners were just as naive before they set out.

I'd definitely go with the Reach, for the reasons thelittledragonthatcould pointed out.

Seeing how Stannis's men aren't fairing so well in the North compared to the old men and green boys sent to fight for him, I still think if the weather is bad enough the Northern army will have a good chance at kicking the asses of the Reach knights who aren't so used to the cold. 

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Seeing how Stannis's men aren't fairing so well in the North compared to the old men and green boys sent to fight for him, I still think if the weather is bad enough the Northern army will have a good chance at kicking the asses of the Reach knights who aren't so used to the cold. 

Oh, in an actual battle where the weather is terrible, I agree that that could make a big difference. But I don't think Cat's comment was to do with that, but a reference to the knights' 'summer' attitudes to warfare. How it was all about glory and honour etc. And that 'winter' would come for them after they had tasted battle for real.

But the question was about best fighter, not armies, so for me the Reach is the clear winner. The North doesn't have anyone with the kind of renown as Loras Tyrell.

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Seeing how Stannis's men aren't fairing so well in the North compared to the old men and green boys sent to fight for him, I still think if the weather is bad enough the Northern army will have a good chance at kicking the asses of the Reach knights who aren't so used to the cold. 

In actual battle Stannis' men fared very well against the thousands and thousands of wildlings who were use to that weather.

 

What is currently failing those Southern men is not battle but just incredibly poor logistical planning from their leaders. Stannis had gone North with little planning for the effects of winter as he was pretty desperate. Not every Southern army is going to be as stupid. 

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In actual battle Stannis' men fared very well against the thousands and thousands of wildlings who were use to that weather.

 

What is currently failing those Southern men is not battle but just incredibly poor logistical planning from their leaders. Stannis had gone North with little planning for the effects of winter as he was pretty desperate. Not every Southern army is going to be as stupid. 

well if you think about it logistical planning is a more modern thing. Medieval armies generally had to bring the supplies them selves. Which normally was 2 weeks of rations and a few change of clothes. 

Yeah there was the general idea of logistics like an army lives on its stomach but that's about it.

For instance during the Crusades if an army didn't have pows or slaves they wouldn't even dig holes to crap in. And sometimes not even put up camp defenses.(talk about poor planning)

A Book example of poor logistical planning would be the fist of the first men. They planted stakes and that was about it. No wayward camps back to CB to resupply, etc. I had a friend on here who gave an interesting breakdown but I can't quote him as the new format deleted our convo. 

Although, Stannis's March does make me wonder. I've seen people argue that he thinks of moves ahead but this isn't one the dreadfort isn't one battle of BW isn't one. 

Thanks for the food for thought.

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The North has very few good fighters compared to the south.

What makes you say that? Simple fact is that southern fighters like Loras Tyrell are well known because of their performances in tourneys. The Northmen dont participate in tourneys so they are not as well known. In fact the Northern lords whose lands border the wall (like Umbers) get plenty of real life combat unlike southern lords. It is also noted that Northern melees are much more brutal than southern ones. 

The northerners arent well known - doesnt mean they are not good. Look at every battle the Northern forces have fought (that we know about) and in all of them they have performed as well if not much better than southrons. 

 

Having said that - I'd still go with the reach having the best fighter simply because they have a much larger pool of fighters to choose from.

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Garlan Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Emmon Cuy, Parmen Crane, Arys Oakheart all seem like more than competent warriors, and I don't think the North has people that can really compare, except for the Greatjon and possibly the Smalljon. The likes of Jon Snow, Jorah Mormont, Jory Cassel and others are all good fighters, but not as notable as the people from the Reach or other southern regions.

That said, I do believe the North on average have better military commanders, with a better grasps of tactics, strategy and logistics. Might reflect the differences in culture, I suppose.

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The Reach.

They have a bigger population to choose from, are richer (thus better equipped), and due to being historically surrounded by enemies while not having any real natural defenses they have a rather martial culture.

The North simply doesn't have anyone that can compare to Loras or Garlan Tyrell.

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The North does'nt have anyone in the top 10, and I doubt if in the top 100. Mace Tyrell has 2 sons in the top 6 continent wide by word of the writer, and had Willas not been crippled it would have likely been 3, considering the resources and living tradition of the region. 

This isn't even a question. 

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Seeing how Stannis's men aren't fairing so well in the North compared to the old men and green boys sent to fight for him, I still think if the weather is bad enough the Northern army will have a good chance at kicking the asses of the Reach knights who aren't so used to the cold. 

It's less that the Northerners are hardy and more that they lack the proper equipment and clothing. It's easy to sit there and make fun of someone tripping and freezing in the snow when you're wearing a parka and snowshoes and they are wearing a t-shirt with sandals. The northerners know how to fight and travel *in the winter*. That gives them an advantage for sure, but it doesn't mean they are physically superior in the cold or anything of the sort.

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