Originality in Westeros

[Curled Finger]

Cred:  Have listened to AWOIAF, TPATQ, TRP, tales of D&E and the entire ASOIAF collection at least three times in entirety.   Have read portions of AWOIAF & ASOIAF.  Frequent listener of many related podcasts and been hanging around this forum for roughly 2 years.   I’ve made a couple of unpopular topics and posted a few times.  I like to think I know a little, but probably know nothing. 

Thing is I’ve stumbled upon a few really original ideas that no one seems to notice or try to expand on.  Is this because they aren’t original?  Or just too new to comment on?   Half of the topics I participate in drift away from the stated topic or I get in too late to ask a poster about a statement.   Who wants to answer that after 2 weeks, right?  There is a thread going now wherein a poster I enjoy stated he thought the promise Lyanna tried to extract from Ned was to kill Jon!!!   Holy cow.   Never in a million years did that cross my mind.   Early last week a new poster  started a thread about Sam utilizing the glass candles to communicate with Jon.  That dazzled me.   Surely everyone remembers the really clever thread linking Arya to the slavers at Hardhome?  The resurrected thread that actually started on reddit (I think) supposing what could be in Lyanna's tomb.  A long time poster floored me with the whole proto-Valyrian gene pool and the Blackwoods being the Warg Kings in a single thread.   How come we spend so much time on which character could kick this character’s butt or who will fall in love with whom when there is stuff like this floating around out there?  

I enjoy fanfic and theories…crackpot is hilarious.  The things above don’t strike me as unreasonable or far-fetched.  (I didn't say I liked the idea Lyanna wanted Ned to kill Jon, it's just a fascinating new take on what the promise might have been)   Certainly we all read passages differently so I don’t think anyone can be 100% right without the initials GRRM.   What have you read that slipped through the cracks that you want to know a whole lot more about?

[King_Slayer]

The pregnant Stark woman asking for a son to avenge her whom Bran see's in his Weirwood vision... Who is she? What does she want vengeance for and on who? 

Idk why but not knowing this has been bothering me for quite a while.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Lol.  Dude you might as well ask why is there violence in the world.  The simple answer is humans are idiots.  Sometimes we manage to act smart but we're really just acting.  I can't tell you the number of threads I've watched be disproven and have just watched as people continue to comment, like the Mance broke guest rights thread. Its incredibly stupid, and was proven so on the 2nd post, yet people continue to comment "omg your right!"  Or Euron=Dario or any idiocy, your not just going to make the human race more intelligent.

Separate from this thread I consider myself an intelligent human being, but to suggest that I always act intelligent would in turn make me an idiot as I very often act emotionally, as does everyone.  On this forum I think I do pretty well, as I've never started a thread just to insult a fictional character, but I am sure I still hold biases.

[Blackfyre Bastard]

Surely everyone remembers the really clever thread linking Arya to the slavers at Hardhome?  The resurrected thread that actually started on reddit (I think) supposing what could be in Lyanna's tomb.  A long time poster floored me with the whole proto-Valyrian gene pool and the Blackwoods being the Warg Kings in a single thread.   How come we spend so much time on which character could kick this character’s butt or who will fall in love with whom when there is stuff like this floating around out there?  

 

Never heard about Arya and slavers at Hardhome, perhaps you could bring a link? I'm curious.

I don't know if your proto-Valyrian reference was this post, but I really enjoyed reading the theory about pre-First Men.

 

P.S. Just a suggestion, but maybe you should rename the thread to "Originality in Westeros.org"?

[Curled Finger]

Lol.  Dude you might as well ask why is there violence in the world.  The simple answer is humans are idiots.  Sometimes we manage to act smart but we're really just acting.  I can't tell you the number of threads I've watched be disproven and have just watched as people continue to comment, like the Mance broke guest rights thread. Its incredibly stupid, and was proven so on the 2nd post, yet people continue to comment "omg your right!"  Or Euron=Dario or any idiocy, your not just going to make the human race more intelligent.

Separate from this thread I consider myself an intelligent human being, but to suggest that I always act intelligent would in turn make me an idiot as I very often act emotionally, as does everyone.  On this forum I think I do pretty well, as I've never started a thread just to insult a fictional character, but I am sure I still hold biases.

Not the behaviors Arya, those are actually sort of fun to watch unfold.   I had this thread that I couldn't wait to talk with people about and it took on a life of its own and became remarkably interesting though it had nothing to do with the topic.   Not like that my friend. Not intelligence, just more an interest or are these things I've seen either not original or maybe even mentioned at inopportune times.   I'm not looking for an argument.   I get that some folks have to be right damn the cost.   I'm just surprised because there are so many thoughtful and curious folks here.   As to the bold I've never read anything you started that was insulting or foolish.   

Maybe it has more to do with who is on when a thing is said?   I work full time with a good deal of commute time involved so I'm mostly on at night--by the time I get to something it's 3 pages deep.   Then the quote function doesn't work.   

[Curled Finger]

 

Never heard about Arya and slavers at Hardhome, perhaps you could bring a link? I'm curious.

I don't know if your proto-Valyrian reference was this post, but I really enjoyed reading the theory about pre-First Men.

 

P.S. Just a suggestion, but maybe you should rename the thread to "Originality in Westeros.org"?

No Ser, Lady Blizzardborn took me to school in a topic we were both posting in.   I did actually do a little research and was floored I hadn't come across this before.   I will happily read your reference and look forward to reading more.   

It's not a hate thread and I don't dislike this place at all.   Have you ever looked at reddit?   Can't hold a candle to this.  I was disappointed that topic about the Sam's adventures and the glass candles didn't gain more momentum.   I thought it was great.   I often wonder if it is me who kills threads in that I am so often the final poster.    

Search sweetsunray's stuff--I believe this was her masterpiece about a year or so ago.   

[Curled Finger]

The pregnant Stark woman asking for a son to avenge her whom Bran see's in his Weirwood vision... Who is she? What does she want vengeance for and on who? 

Idk why but not knowing this has been bothering me for quite a while.

This came up in 2 threads recently.   One of them theorized your lady is the Stark daughter Bael the Bard stole.   You're not alone.  How come you don't start a topic and get some real input?   It's an interesting subject.   Certainly more so than opinion poles.   I would read it.  

[StarkofWinterfell]

Cred:  Have listened to AWOIAF, TPATQ, TRP, tales of D&E and the entire ASOIAF collection at least three times in entirety.   Have read portions of AWOIAF & ASOIAF.  Frequent listener of many related podcasts and been hanging around this forum for roughly 2 years.   I’ve made a couple of unpopular topics and posted a few times.  I like to think I know a little, but probably know nothing. 

 

Thing is I’ve stumbled upon a few really original ideas that no one seems to notice or try to expand on.  Is this because they aren’t original?  Or just too new to comment on?   Half of the topics I participate in drift away from the stated topic or I get in too late to ask a poster about a statement.   Who wants to answer that after 2 weeks, right?  There is a thread going now wherein a poster I enjoy stated he thought the promise Lyanna tried to extract from Ned was to kill Jon!!!   Holy cow.   Never in a million years did that cross my mind.   Early last week a new poster  started a thread about Sam utilizing the glass candles to communicate with Jon.  That dazzled me.   Surely everyone remembers the really clever thread linking Arya to the slavers at Hardhome?  The resurrected thread that actually started on reddit (I think) supposing what could be in Lyanna's tomb.  A long time poster floored me with the whole proto-Valyrian gene pool and the Blackwoods being the Warg Kings in a single thread.   How come we spend so much time on which character could kick this character’s butt or who will fall in love with whom when there is stuff like this floating around out there?  

 

I enjoy fanfic and theories…crackpot is hilarious.  The things above don’t strike me as unreasonable or far-fetched.  (I didn't say I liked the idea Lyanna wanted Ned to kill Jon, it's just a fascinating new take on what the promise might have been)   Certainly we all read passages differently so I don’t think anyone can be 100% right without the initials GRRM.   What have you read that slipped through the cracks that you want to know a whole lot more about?

 

Because people are more interested in who Sansa is going to marry or any other sort of fanfiction romance than discussing actually interesting things.

[Ser Harly of Southwell]

Cred:  Have listened to AWOIAF, TPATQ, TRP, tales of D&E and the entire ASOIAF collection at least three times in entirety.   Have read portions of AWOIAF & ASOIAF. 

 

Hello fellow listener! I am also on my third listen through of ASOIAF and just listened to D&E. Loved it. I wish Harry Lloyd would re-read the whole series. 

As for the rest of your thread, I agree completely. That's why I love the pinned threads such as "Small Questions" "I never noticed that" (Which has disappeared since the update) and "A compendium of theories"

[Aniel]

Perhaps one of the main reasons some threads die out is because a lot of people don't have things to add to them? I read a lot of threads, some which pick up and some that don't,but I rarely contribute anything. Mostly this is because I haven't read the books as many times others, or haven't finished the World book and stuff like that. And I also take ages writing posts.

I did start a new thread myself once, on a topic that no one ever seems to discuss. While lots of people talk about how Jon will be resurrected (or if he's even dead) no one ever talks about every other character's reaction, other than the wildlings joining Jon. 0 replies.

Threads dealing with the immediate plot might have an easier time getting replies since everyone knows the plot, but not everyone has been studying the history of Essos or whatever a thread that ultimately fails is about.

[Lord Lannister]

 

Because people are more interested in who Sansa is going to marry or any other sort of fanfiction romance than discussing actually interesting things.

Actually interesting things? Wow, and here I was operating under the misconception that interesting was an opinion.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

You want original and amazing? Try A True Queen. I don't know why it's not taken as gospel around here, but it should be.

LML (Lightbringer Means Lucifer) also does amazing original work. It's more speculative, but certainly thought provoking.

[Rippounet]

You want original and amazing? Try A True Queen. I don't know why it's not taken as gospel around here, but it should be.

A fantastic read. Many stimulating ideas. Most interesting are not the theories but the questions asked. I had not seen so much thought given to Ned's mother for instance. The rest is more familiar, though the way the different elements are tied together are certainly original. Rickard's southern ambitions, matrilineality, Hardhome & Mother Mole, Val & Dalla, Old Nan, Bael the Bard... All secondary, and yet small mysteries nonetheless.

To answer the OP: something I've noticed since I joined this forum is that the most successful threads are those which are controversial in some way or another. Great theories don't get many answers precisely because they are good. In fact, it's quite common for a good thread to be quickly forgotten, buried underneath countless less interesting ones.

[StarkofWinterfell]

A fantastic read. Many stimulating ideas. Most interesting are not the theories but the questions asked. I had not seen so much thought given to Ned's mother for instance. The rest is more familiar, though the way the different elements are tied together are certainly original. Rickard's southern ambitions, matrilineality, Hardhome & Mother Mole, Val & Dalla, Old Nan, Bael the Bard... All secondary, and yet small mysteries nonetheless.

To answer the OP: something I've noticed since I joined this forum is that the most successful threads are those which are controversial in some way or another. Great theories don't get many answers precisely because they are good. In fact, it's quite common for a good thread to be quickly forgotten, buried underneath countless less interesting ones.

Noticed this as well. Good points.

[Targaryen Restoration]

Cred:  Have listened to AWOIAF, TPATQ, TRP, tales of D&E and the entire ASOIAF collection at least three times in entirety.   Have read portions of AWOIAF & ASOIAF.  Frequent listener of many related podcasts and been hanging around this forum for roughly 2 years.   I’ve made a couple of unpopular topics and posted a few times.  I like to think I know a little, but probably know nothing. 

 

Thing is I’ve stumbled upon a few really original ideas that no one seems to notice or try to expand on.  Is this because they aren’t original?  Or just too new to comment on?   Half of the topics I participate in drift away from the stated topic or I get in too late to ask a poster about a statement.   Who wants to answer that after 2 weeks, right?  There is a thread going now wherein a poster I enjoy stated he thought the promise Lyanna tried to extract from Ned was to kill Jon!!!   Holy cow.   Never in a million years did that cross my mind.   Early last week a new poster  started a thread about Sam utilizing the glass candles to communicate with Jon.  That dazzled me.   Surely everyone remembers the really clever thread linking Arya to the slavers at Hardhome?  The resurrected thread that actually started on reddit (I think) supposing what could be in Lyanna's tomb.  A long time poster floored me with the whole proto-Valyrian gene pool and the Blackwoods being the Warg Kings in a single thread.   How come we spend so much time on which character could kick this character’s butt or who will fall in love with whom when there is stuff like this floating around out there?  

 

I enjoy fanfic and theories…crackpot is hilarious.  The things above don’t strike me as unreasonable or far-fetched.  (I didn't say I liked the idea Lyanna wanted Ned to kill Jon, it's just a fascinating new take on what the promise might have been)   Certainly we all read passages differently so I don’t think anyone can be 100% right without the initials GRRM.   What have you read that slipped through the cracks that you want to know a whole lot more about?

 

There are a lot of good theories out there, much better than the ones regularly talked about.  I like the many alternative theories with regards to Jon Snow's parentage.  Most of the discussions are really repeats of previous, but once in a while, somebody comes up with an original idea.  Sometimes it's something that was staring us right in the face and it just took someone to point it out.  There's a posting from the weekend about Jon Snow's desecration of guest rights that I thought opened a new angle that I expect will generate discussions in the future.  I too frequent many fan sites, forums, and listen to several podcasts.  The ideas eventually make their way to other forums.  There are original ideas out there.  The titles do not always fairly reflect the content of the thread so you will have to spend time searching and browsing.  It's like looking for gold.  It's worth the effort when you find it.

[Ser Knute]

While I'll have to finish my re-read of The Princess and the Queen, one question I'm wondering about is the three dragon eggs that one of the Blacks' princess take with her to The Vale to treat with the Maid of the Vale.  I think it was Joffrey or Aegon the Younger that was tasked with going but the Princess accompanied him.  I don't think those eggs are accounted for.  Curious if those somehow are the three that Illyrio ends up with.

Then there's the other Prince that was at sea with Corlys Velaryon's fleet that was taken upon by the fleet from the Triarchy of Myr, Pentos and Lys?  That Prince also had an egg that he supposedly hid; he himself dressed as a sailor before being given up by one of the actual crewmen, but the egg is never spoken of again.  It would seem odd that he'd throw it overboard, so then, if not, what happened to it?

Then there's Illyrio's wife Serra, who has Golden hair streaked with Silver and blue eyes.  Of course I've seen the threads on theories of whom she is or could be, or related to, but I still wonder if we'll get any sort of confirmation or even more evidence to make a better presumption as to whom she was related to. 

Then we have Illyrio himself.  What does the cheesemonger really want?  He doesn't seem to care about ruling, he has immense wealth and can certainly increase that wealth in less dangerous ways than what he's involved with.

Then there's Larys Strong; the Master of Whispers for the Greens (Alicent and Aegon II) who mysteriously disappears shortly after the Dance of the Dragons begins.  Curiously similar to Varys in not only name, but in actual person.  Who is he?  What if any significance is there with the Strongs and Harrenhal?  

Now, not that I expect that any of the missing eggs will reappear, or that they'll have any significance this late in the story, but who knows...  Curious too about the plans of Dany; not so much in the macro sense but in the micro sense, specifically, that dragons fare better on Dragonstone than anywhere else currently known.  Will she ever realize this, or be told, or learn of it of her own accord?  Are there yet clutches of eggs in the Dragonmont?

Is Timmett related to Nettles?

Will Brienne be Dunk 2.0?  Will she be in Aegon's or even Dany's Kings/Queens guard?

So many interesting sub-topics to be interested in, but there are few details to sift through for anything other than speculation at this point.  The main topics are interesting as well, but they are connected to these sub-topics, just like the Dance was tied to many sub-topics than who is the rightful King/Queen and/or whom will win.

I agree with some of the other replies though; most times people for whatever reason are more interested in topics like who would win versus some other opponent, as if the story is going to ever answer such questions like who would win, the Mountain or Arthur?  It can't happen so why bother?  Sure, it's interesting to wonder, but it can't possibly be answered with any sort of confidence.  While I don't think there's anything wrong with posting some topics, I don't find them to have much depth and that's fine too, some people may only be interested in superficial things, some people may have only a certain interest in the story and that's what they focus on, while some of us, want to explore the very depths of all the interconnected webs that George has weaved for us.  Those are the threads I find myself drawn too.  To each their own.

[Curled Finger]

I prayed to the Old Gods, The Many Faced God, The 7 and still can't fricking quote.   So let's try a broader approach.   I really appreciate that you've all taken time to send me in interesting corners and I will go, because I dig the journey.  Not only have I read LML, but listened to his 1st podcast maybe 3 times over a weekend just to get my head around it.   It is fascinating.    And your notes of support touch me.  I'm not complaining about this forum at all.  I spent 2 weeks reading nothing but the compendium of theories with the wiki.  There are some amazing ideas out there.   That's more or less where I was aiming with this topic.  Not so much theorycraft as just random ideas--good random ideas.  I listed a few things things that made me stop and take stock of what I just knew I knew and blew it all to pieces.  I want to know what you've run across.   

Excellent points about the topics being lost in so many topics.  I was having a great time in a topic then the update happened and we couldn't talk to each other anymore between inability to quote and the endless saving of comments that ultimately wouldn't post.   To be honest I never expected to actually start a thread ever again.   Sam's glass candles and Jon's murderous mother both came to me within a week of each other so I thought I would put them out there and see if anyone has anything to contribute.  

As to topics and comments unanswered...TRY AGAIN!  POST until your fingers fall off.  I'll be on the lookout for that discussion of the lady in Bran's vision.   

[Texas Hold Em]

Are there yet clutches of eggs in the Dragonmont?

I don't think so.  Stannis Baratheon needed funds badly.  He sent his men searching for dragon eggs to sell.  If there were any left to begin with they found them.  No, I think somebody purposely hid those eggs.  It's hard to destroy solid rock with the technology they have and those eggs were too valuable to destroy.  Those eggs are hidden, somewhere.  Perhaps Aerys during the last months of his reign had enough sanity to send his loyal serving men (Hightower, maybe) to find those eggs and take them somewhere where they will be safe.  Safe from the usurpers should his monarchy fall and safe from his disinherited son, Rhaegar and whatever schemes he might have cooked up in that blonde head.  Safe to await Prince Viserys or some future Targaryen to awaken them.

[Curled Finger]

While I'll have to finish my re-read of The Princess and the Queen, one question I'm wondering about is the three dragon eggs that one of the Blacks' princess take with her to The Vale to treat with the Maid of the Vale.  I think it was Joffrey or Aegon the Younger that was tasked with going but the Princess accompanied him.  I don't think those eggs are accounted for.  Curious if those somehow are the three that Illyrio ends up with.

Then there's the other Prince that was at sea with Corlys Velaryon's fleet that was taken upon by the fleet from the Triarchy of Myr, Pentos and Lys?  That Prince also had an egg that he supposedly hid; he himself dressed as a sailor before being given up by one of the actual crewmen, but the egg is never spoken of again.  It would seem odd that he'd throw it overboard, so then, if not, what happened to it?

Then there's Illyrio's wife Serra, who has Golden hair streaked with Silver and blue eyes.  Of course I've seen the threads on theories of whom she is or could be, or related to, but I still wonder if we'll get any sort of confirmation or even more evidence to make a better presumption as to whom she was related to. 

Then we have Illyrio himself.  What does the cheesemonger really want?  He doesn't seem to care about ruling, he has immense wealth and can certainly increase that wealth in less dangerous ways than what he's involved with.

Then there's Larys Strong; the Master of Whispers for the Greens (Alicent and Aegon II) who mysteriously disappears shortly after the Dance of the Dragons begins.  Curiously similar to Varys in not only name, but in actual person.  Who is he?  What if any significance is there with the Strongs and Harrenhal?  

Now, not that I expect that any of the missing eggs will reappear, or that they'll have any significance this late in the story, but who knows...  Curious too about the plans of Dany; not so much in the macro sense but in the micro sense, specifically, that dragons fare better on Dragonstone than anywhere else currently known.  Will she ever realize this, or be told, or learn of it of her own accord?  Are there yet clutches of eggs in the Dragonmont?

Is Timmett related to Nettles?

Will Brienne be Dunk 2.0?  Will she be in Aegon's or even Dany's Kings/Queens guard?

So many interesting sub-topics to be interested in, but there are few details to sift through for anything other than speculation at this point.  The main topics are interesting as well, but they are connected to these sub-topics, just like the Dance was tied to many sub-topics than who is the rightful King/Queen and/or whom will win.

I agree with some of the other replies though; most times people for whatever reason are more interested in topics like who would win versus some other opponent, as if the story is going to ever answer such questions like who would win, the Mountain or Arthur?  It can't happen so why bother?  Sure, it's interesting to wonder, but it can't possibly be answered with any sort of confidence.  While I don't think there's anything wrong with posting some topics, I don't find them to have much depth and that's fine too, some people may only be interested in superficial things, some people may have only a certain interest in the story and that's what they focus on, while some of us, want to explore the very depths of all the interconnected webs that George has weaved for us.  Those are the threads I find myself drawn too.  To each their own.

My old friend Sir Knife!   Yah those eggs are sure a thing aren't they?   I'll take it one more step with you and throw in those missing Valyrian Steel Swords AND a couple of missing crowns.   Where is the egg Blood Raven had the dwarves steal?   Should I be reading more into this?   Three "black" eggs...that's interesting.  I remember that Daemon had to take back the egg he gave to his pregnant mistress, but I don't recall any mention of the fate of the eggs in TPATQ.  Nice.   Why do you think the eggs have to remain lost?  I think Euron has a sword (he's the guy with all the cool toys you know) and read a couple of topics about crowns possibly being in Lyanna's tomb, so yeah, why do those eggs have to be missing for ever?   

I got nothing for you with Nettles and Timmet.  I'm still thinking the original thing I read which was that Nettles was just a commoner, not a dragonseed.  But I would really like to know where she and Daemon went.  

You don't think laughing at all Westeros is enough for Illyrio?  If Aegon is his son and Serra is a Blackfyre he would be father of a king.   On the flip side, what if that's wrong?  What is Illyrio's angle then?   

You have some good stuff there, start a topic.   I want to know all the possible answers to your questions.   

[Curled Finger]

I don't think so.  Stannis Baratheon needed funds badly.  He sent his men searching for dragon eggs to sell.  If there were any left to begin with they found them.  No, I think somebody purposely hid those eggs.  It's hard to destroy solid rock with the technology they have and those eggs were too valuable to destroy.  Those eggs are hidden, somewhere.  Perhaps Aerys during the last months of his reign had enough sanity to send his loyal serving men (Hightower, maybe) to find those eggs and take them somewhere where they will be safe.  Safe from the usurpers should his monarchy fall and safe from his disinherited son, Rhaegar and whatever schemes he might have cooked up in that blonde head.  Safe to await Prince Viserys or some future Targaryen to awaken them.

Dany's eggs are sort of pretty in the show, but nothing like I imagined when reading.  If you had some oh maybe 200 year old eggs collecting dust in the bowels of Dragonstone, how could you even really be able to identify what they are?  Though I think it's more likely Rhaenyra hid them out of sheer spite.  And don't forget there were 3 wild dragons who could have laid eggs anywhere, presumably.  I'm just not sure everyone knows what they look like or that they are all that identifiable after all this time?