If Jon Snow had Targaryan hair, how would Ned Stark cover it up?

[PrinceHenryris]

As far as anyone outside of Ned, Howland, and probably Wylla are concerned Jon is either Ashara's son or Wylla's.  Light hair would not have meant much to most people.

[Damsel in Distress]

4 hours ago, jontargaryan said:

How would he explain that to Robert?

The only way Jon Stark could have the Targaryen silver-blonde hair is to wear a bleached wig from Lys.  He doesn't have Valyrian blood; therefore, he would not have the physical features known as "the blood of the dragon."

 

[Macgregor of the North]

On the OP, if Jon had the Targaryen hair, you can be sure he would also have the Targaryen purple eyes as they seem to go hand in hand so Ned would be screwed for covering him up as his own. He would then most likely have to hide him with another house or have a more elaborate explanation if he's in WF, which is dangerous given how his King feels on Targs.

On the seed is strong etc. Debate. Baelor Breakspear who was legendary among the Targs and the man by all accounts had nothing of the Targ look, he had the look of his mother Mariah Martell and he is actually the eldest son of Daeron Tragaryen II so Lady of the north has the right of it really. Some males get the look of their mothers, but that's not to mean the seed is weak.

[khal drogon]

20 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

On the OP, if a had the Targaryen hair, you can be sure he would also have the Targaryen purple eyes as they seem to go hand in hand so Ned would be screwed for covering him up as his own. He would then most likely have to hide him with another house or have a more elaborate explanation if he's in WF, which is dangerous given how his King feels on Targs.

On the seed is strong etc. Debate. Baelor Breakspear who was legendary among the Targs and the man by all accounts had nothing of the Targ look, he had the look of his mother Mariah Martell and he is actually the eldest son of Daeron Tragaryen II so Lady of the north has the right of it really. Some males get the look of their mothers, but that's not to mean the seed is weak.

Seed is strong means there is a greater chance to inherit father's features than mother's. It is a matter of probability. 

[Jô Maltese]

Good question OP: this is why Ned has never really denied the Ashara Dayne rumour IMHO... to cover Jon's potential Valyrian looks.

[Macgregor of the North]

32 minutes ago, khal drogon said:

Seed is strong means there is a greater chance to inherit father's features than mother's. It is a matter of probability. 

Jon Arryn was muttering this and Roberts name to try in his final actions to show that the children were Lannisters, but from this we shouldn't draw the conclusion that the Stark seed is weak because a few kids have Tully features. 

[khal drogon]

45 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Jon Arryn wa muttering this and Roberts name to try in his final actions to show that the chi ldren were Lannisters, but from this we shouldn't draw the conclusion that the Stark seed is weak because a few kids have Tully features. 

Not a few kids. Its 4 out of 5. But one could argue that only the genes of hair and eye color is dominant in Tullys and those kids had other dominant Stark features. Though GRRM genetics is not like real life genetics, he clearly establishes the dominant and recessive traits. What if Starks had recessive traits? It does not mean they are physically weak or have poor fertility. 

[LordManderlyAsDragonRider]

Bed wouldn't have to cover it up, he already has a great cover story in Ashara Dayne maybe being Jon's mother. Ashara did have dark hair herself, but she has violet eyes. And her nephew Edric has blonde hair so it is a Dayne trait.

Do we ever hear what Wylla looks like? Maybe she was fair skinned and blonde, and Ned brought her back to Winterfell so that if Jon turned out looking Targ, it would just be assumed Wylla was his mother.

[The Fresh PtwP]

Ned could've not squashed the Ashara rumors. Then if Jon comes out purple-eyed and silver-haired no worries

[dornishdame]

Agree regarding the Ashara rumors.  We know that she had violet eyes, and Darkstar's description is thus:

He is highborn enough to make a worthy consort, she thought. Father would question my good sense, but our children would be as beautiful as dragonlords. If there was a handsomer man in Dorne, she did not know him. Ser Gerold Dayne had an aquiline nose, high cheekbones, a strong jaw. He kept his face clean-shaven, but his thick hair fell to his collar like a silver glacier, divided by a streak of midnight black. He has a cruel mouth, though, and a crueler tongue. His eyes seemed black as he sat outlined against the dying sun, sharpening his steel, but she had looked at them from a closer vantage and she knew that they were purple. Dark purple. Dark and angry. (The Queenmaker in Feast)

Darkstar may be a Dayne of High Hermitage, but he is still a Dayne. If Jon were to have such looks, I think it would only add fire to the Ashara rumors - even though iirc Ashara herself is dark-haired. There are clearly Daynes that are Valyrian in appearance. 

As for Jon taking after Lyanna rather than Rhaegar, if we look back over the last few generations of Targaryens, a pattern of sorts does emerge. 

Daeron II + Mariah Martell = Baelor Breakspear (an eldest son who favors his mother).  Maekar, at the very least, seemed to have inherited his father's Targaryen looks. I cannot recall getting a description of Aerys or Rhaegel. 

Maekar I + Dyanna Dayne = Daeron the Drunken (an eldest son and seemingly the only one of Maekar's four sons that does not inherit his Targaryen coloring)

Aegon V + Betha Blackwood = Duncan the Small (again, an eldest son seemingly being the only one that is dark-haired)

Rhaegar + Elia = Rhaenys (again, the elder child takes the dark looks of her Dornish mother)

Not much to go on, admittedly, but it could potentially indicate that Targaryen genetics work in such a way that in the eldest child, it is the maternal genes that are most prominent - rather than that of the Targaryen father - in terms of appearance ( I know this goes against the appearance of Rhaenyra's children, but in that case the mother was Targaryen rather than the father. And that may make a difference). This could also help explain why Jon himself is apparently so Stark-like in appearance.  

[Nyrhex]

8 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

This brings up valid question. If the seed is strong and the Stark seed is not, why does Jon look like a Stark?

Baratheon children all have dark hair, but Ned's children have Tully looks save for Jon and Arya. Does that mean Arya is not a Stark?

Jon looking like a Stark is because GRRM went easy mode and gave Ned a kid that was similar in looks to him, plus if Jon is going to be KITN it's a subtle supermacist hint that he has the "better" blood for it than, say, Robb. Arya also has these features because of the importance GRRM gives her in the Northern story. Bran is gone to be our eyes for stuff no POV character was going to ever see, Rickon is likely a Shaggydog story that would lead to nothing, and Sansa was an after-thought, something GRRM added after he realised that he had done such poorly on the Stark family tree that he had to add someone as a counter, because no family is this happy and functioning. It does not mean that the other Stark children are not Neds, it means that they would play a secondary role compared to Jon and Arya.

The Baratheon are literally the only ones where each generation has the same features, regardless of additional genes in the main line, and looks almost identical to the previous generation. If I were to make a guess it'd be that the Durrandon line, which provided the features and is only replaced by name, trace thier lineage to actual gods. Either that or they were arbitrarily chosen to be the only ones with such strong genetics because GRRM realised that he does not have CSI here to do a paternity test, and it was the simplest way to make sure the readers get that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen cannot possibly be Robert's.

[HexMachina]

9 minutes ago, Nyrhex said:

Jon looking like a Stark is because GRRM went easy mode and gave Ned a kid that was similar in looks to him, plus if Jon is going to be KITN it's a subtle supermacist hint that he has the "better" blood for it than, say, Robb. Arya also has these features because of the importance GRRM gives her in the Northern story. Bran is gone to be our eyes for stuff no POV character was going to ever see, Rickon is likely a Shaggydog story that would lead to nothing, and Sansa was an after-thought, something GRRM added after he realised that he had done such poorly on the Stark family tree that he had to add someone as a counter, because no family is this happy and functioning. It does not mean that the other Stark children are not Neds, it means that they would play a secondary role compared to Jon and Arya.

The Baratheon are literally the only ones where each generation has the same features, regardless of additional genes in the main line, and looks almost identical to the previous generation. If I were to make a guess it'd be that the Durrandon line, which provided the features and is only replaced by name, trace thier lineage to actual gods. Either that or they were arbitrarily chosen to be the only ones with such strong genetics because GRRM realised that he does not have CSI here to do a paternity test, and it was the simplest way to make sure the readers get that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen cannot possibly be Robert's.

Shireen takes after her mother is some respects, most notably her ears

[Nyrhex]

4 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Shireen takes after her mother is some respects, most notably her ears

Ears are not a Baratheon feature. She has the black hair and blue eyes, and one would assume that the size is mostly for the men. I don't remember a female Durrandon or Baratheon being mentioned to be as large and strong.

Edric has more similarity to Robert along with Gendry with the mouth and jaw, but still has the ears of a Florent.

[The Twinslayer]

9 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

This brings up valid question. If the seed is strong and the Stark seed is not, why does Jon look like a Stark?

Baratheon children all have dark hair, but Ned's children have Tully looks save for Jon and Arya. Does that mean Arya is not a Stark?

If R+L=J is true then this creates a major plot hole in AGOT.  The appendix to AGOT says that the Targ heritage is proclaimed by purple eyes and silver hair.  Both the Targs who are described in AGOT (Viserys and Dany) fit this description and there is no hint that there has ever been a Targ who fails to meet this description (no hint in AGOT -- Baelor Breakspear is the first non-Targ-looking Targ we read about and he does not appear until The Hedge Knight, which came later).  Add to that the emphasis on the "seed is strong" for Robert plus the fact that all but one of Ned's kids by Cat look like Tullys, plus the fact that the Karstarks don't look like Starks; the chances of Rhaegar and Lyanna producing a kid who has neither purple eyes nor silver hair is ...  extraordinarily remote.

[HexMachina]

1 minute ago, The Twinslayer said:

If R+L=J is true then this creates a major plot hole in AGOT.  The appendix to AGOT says that the Targ heritage is proclaimed by purple eyes and silver hair.  Both the Targs who are described in AGOT (Viserys and Dany) fit this description and there is no hint that there has ever been a Targ who fails to meet this description (no hint in AGOT -- Baelor Breakspear is the first non-Targ-looking Targ we read about and he does not appear until The Hedge Knight, which came later).  Add to that the emphasis on the "seed is strong" for Robert plus the fact that all but one of Ned's kids by Cat look like Tullys, plus the fact that the Karstarks don't look like Starks; the chances of Rhaegar and Lyanna producing a kid who has neither purple eyes nor silver hair is ...  extraordinarily remote.

Rhaegar's daughter took after her Dornish mother in appearance

[Narea]

To the OP:

If only there was a Targaryen with Targaryen coloring (hair and eyes) that effectively masked these very noticeable traits and managed to travel around Westeros unrecognized... 

As for the four Stark children taking after their mother...

The problem here is that while Arryn's "seed is strong" is good to use on Robert it is no good for the Stark situation. In Robert's case we have dominant black hair and recessive blond hair. Here we have an incomplete dominant red hair and dominant brown hair. So, while in the first case we have a clear winner when it comes to the genetics (at least without going too deep into it), the same is not true for the second. We have roughly same probability of any Stark child having red hair or brown hair. You can't determine which seed is stronger or weaker based on number of children with some traits, because the probability of a child having some trait does not increase the more kids you have. Kinda like when you throw a dice, your probability of getting a six does not increase with more throws, it stays 1/6.

 

 

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Either his mother was from Lys and or a Dayne or shave his hair.

[sarah.jenice]

16 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

This brings up valid question. If the seed is strong and the Stark seed is not, why does Jon look like a Stark?

Baratheon children all have dark hair, but Ned's children have Tully looks save for Jon and Arya. Does that mean Arya is not a Stark?

Umm...Lyanna wouldn't contribute "seed" to the mix in R+L=J, Rhaegar would. So it's the Targaryen seed which comes into question, and as many others have noted, it appears to be pretty hit or miss depending on the mother. 

[Erudain]

15 hours ago, Veloknight said:

Many speculate that Ashara Dayne was the mother, even with the Stark look. Ned wouldn't have to say anything, just let people continue to believe it.

The Ashara rumor was useful if Jon ended up having Targ purple eyes, Ned can cover that up with her mother being a Dayne theory, but if his hair turned up being Targ silver-blond, that's a different mumbo jumbo to make it fly.....sure there are blond Daynes (Edric) silver haired Daynes (Gerold) but Ashara had dark hair.

Edit: Maybe Ned can come up with something like "Wylla was a wench from Lys"?

[The Skinner]

Step 1: hide Jon from everyone 

Wait until he's older

Step 2: "Hey Varys, who's your barber?"