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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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5 hours ago, bent branch said:

Or maybe the horn has already been blown for Euron. Maybe whatever magic is in the horn has already done its work. If that is the case it doesn't matter where the horn is or who has it.

That doesn't make much sense because the horn certainly has yet to work its magic on the dragons. And whether it can still work that magic in favor of Euron remains to be seen. That is the point. Euron may have prepared the horn to work in his favor but we don't know whether what Moqorro has Vic do to the horn doesn't change that in his favor.

5 hours ago, bent branch said:

He didn't accompany Vic because he manipulated Vic into going. By giving Vic the horn and the illusion of being in charge, Euron manipulated Vic into doing what he wanted him to.

That is clear. But this doesn't mean he has to follow his beloved brother. Nor was it necessarily wise to hand the horn to Victarion as Moqorro might now demonstrate. The loss of the horn could easily have come back to haunt Euron.

5 hours ago, bent branch said:

Really, the textual clues suggest Euron is going to Meereen. The only things being offered against this are rationalizations for things people don't want to happen story wise.

Sure, there may be such clues. But there were a lot of clues in the books that led to nothing. Like Robb trying to retake the North, Tyrion hiring the clansmen to attack the Vale, Stannis facing the Boltons in a battle at Winterfell, the Karstarks betraying Stannis to the Boltons, Cersei killing Margaery with the help of the High Septon, and so on.

I'm not convinced we'll see Euron's plans go as smoothly as he thinks they do. Granted, it looks like he'll deal with the Redwyne fleet. But is that going to be a complete success without him suffering any losses? We'll have to wait and see.

What if the news about Dany's disappearance and alleged death reach Euron before he begins his journey to Meereen? Why would he go there if he actually believes Dany is dead? And if he has prepared the horn so that it delivers the dragons to him (he thinks) then why would he have to go himself?

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Why the hell would Euron be going to Mereen anyway, it was already established that the ironborn won't do that, and as of this chapter we know he is just now leaving the Arbor to fight the Redwyns.

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Some thoughts about Eurons "info channel options". If he wargs the Dusky woman it would have been very effective for him thanks to the fact that Vic tells her everything - even things he doesn't teell his captains, its explained in the book.

But - it has been told that warging other people isn't that simple, same goes with great distance. Isn't Arya the only one we know of warging over seas? 

It might be that Euron Wargs the monkeys on the ship, instead of the Dusky woman?

Another thing; I don't see the reason to why she reacts so negative to Moqorro, even if she would be warged. Could there be another reason?

 

 

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1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Why the hell would Euron be going to Mereen anyway, it was already established that the ironborn won't do that, and as of this chapter we know he is just now leaving the Arbor to fight the Redwyns.

bent branch suggests he might be going cause he knows Moqorro is mucking up his plan. 

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Well, I was the one who was keeping up Euron's torch all those long years but now we seem to be reaching the opposite point. Suddenly Euron is behind everything. That is equally problematic.

The skinchanging idea is problematic for obvious reason. We have no idea whether Euron actually is a capable skinchanger despite the fact that we have hints he might have been (once) a greenseer candidate. You have to hone both abilities before you can do stuff and we have no reason to assume Euron ever received any formal training after Bloodraven (presumably) discarded him.

Skinchanging into a person is a very difficult business. The idea that he can do that to his mutes without it becoming evident makes no sense.

Then there is the idea that Euron might be seeing stuff far away - as of yet we don't know whether he has a glass candle.

My personal guess is that he only realized his potential a short time ago. Else he would have come back much earlier. Once he captured the warlocks the shade of the evening helped him to open his eyes (or perhaps rather his third eye) to his magical potential. And now he is testing what he can do.

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There is nothing in the Aeron chapter to suggest that Euron has successfully channeled any kind of "dreaming" power the way Bran has.

IMHO, Euron is capturing members of different Faiths and Knowledge, i.e, Septons, Pryee, Aeron, is partially to degrade the Faith's they represent but also looking for someone who can help him gain information he can't acquire himself.  

He is actually correct in doing this.  But he's also a fool. After what he's done to them, no one is likely to gibber out information even in a drunken stupor. Aeron, in fact, seemingly has a dream of the future, something akin to Bran's after being forced to drink the purple liquor.  But he doesn't tell Euron that he sees him on the Iron throne, his head resembling a Kraken's.  Or about the tall white woman who will be his Queen.  Nor was he likely to. 

Unless, Euron merely forced Aeron to see a dream he himself is aware of to prove to his little brother he is God-like simply out of malice. 

 

 

 

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If anything, this chapter has proved that the Grejoy characters are very underrated by the fandom. It's debatable whether Theon belongs to them in the narrative sense, but there's a reason for House Greyjoy to have more POV characters than any other family beside the Starks.

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You can bet that if Euron had any kind of skinchanging power, we would have seen it by now. A guy like this isn't going to refrain from mind-controlling people/animals to achieve his ends.

We must also remember that skinchanging/greenseeing, as a type of magic, is one that seems to be enhanced with a personal (bodily) sacrifice. Bran loses his legs, Bloodraven has practically gone into the tree, Arya skinchanges the cat in Braavos when she's blind.

Euron hasn't sacrificed any part of himself yet -  he seems to sacrifice others to harness magic (which seems to be the MO of eastern magic practitioners:  see R'hllor priests, birth of Dany's dragons, so on.). It seems to me that Euron is like an antithesis of Bran - someone who desperately wants to perform magic, become a God and rule the world rather than being born with an innate ability to do so. He appears to have learnt methods to perform magic through either study or observation during his travels,IMO.

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On 7/7/2016 at 10:40 AM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

You can bet that if Euron had any kind of skinchanging power, we would have seen it by now. A guy like this isn't going to refrain from mind-controlling people/animals to achieve his ends.

I would disagree that we would have seen it by now. Euron is not a POV and therefore it's something we can't dismiss just because we would have seen it by now. 

 

@Lord Varys Where ever you are in regards to exactly what role Euron will play in Act III I think this discussion shows how well GRRM set up the mystery of Dragonbinder both it how the damn thing actually works and exactly what effect it will have on Rhaegal. I think it's pretty clear the dragon bounces to Euron but can't be sure as Moqorro has been so nicely set up as a wild card. There is even a chance, a remote sliver of a chance, that poor dumb Vic gets his dragon but I doubt it. Vic is on his way to his doom. 

 

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Pffft Euron comes out of nowhere and you think him better than superman, that  he can do anything or conquer anything. He doesn't even have the majority of the fleet with him lol.

The ironborn can plunder yes, but they are weak and few. Cerci marrying this guy? In what universe? Or the dragon queen...

He can warg, do super magic, greensee, invade and conquer anything at will, Euron Sue. Only Bran can warg humans, and so far a broken one.

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6 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

Pffft Euron comes out of nowhere and you think him better than superman, that  he can do anything or conquer anything. He doesn't even have the majority of the fleet with him lol.

The ironborn can plunder yes, but they are weak and few. Cerci marrying this guy? In what universe? Or the dragon queen...

He can warg, do super magic, greensee, invade and conquer anything at will, Euron Sue. Only Bran can warg humans, and so far a broken one.

Are you referring to show euron? Because book euron is as sick as it gets.

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Lets put it this way, he has very little compared to the conqueror or daenerys.  Heck even the Bolton bastard did more so far. Ramsay and many others were sick but that is not enough. People have threads discussing if 3 dragons, the targeryan name, unsullied, mercenaries, alliances etc etc are enough to rule westeros...

They could not invade Dorne and had to make a marriage alliance back then, but now people think this unproven upstart can just get it with half a dozen guys!

Edited by Dragonslack

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2 hours ago, Unknownfinger said:

I would disagree that we would have seen it by now. Euron is not a POV and therefore it's something we can't dismiss just because we would have seen it by now. 

But there could be actually pretty good hints about him being an experienced skinchanger if he was one. Just as there could have been such hints in TMK concerning Bloodraven.

2 hours ago, Unknownfinger said:

@Lord Varys Where ever you are in regards to exactly what role Euron will play in Act III I think this discussion shows how well GRRM set up the mystery of Dragonbinder both it how the damn thing actually works and exactly what effect it will have on Rhaegal. I think it's pretty clear the dragon bounces to Euron but can't be sure as Moqorro has been so nicely set up as a wild card. There is even a chance, a remote sliver of a chance, that poor dumb Vic gets his dragon but I doubt it. Vic is on his way to his doom.

I find the idea of dragon flying thousands of leagues to a completely unknown master pretty far-fetched. That stretches realism to a rather strong degree. And if that was 'the plan' then we have to ask ourselves why the hell Euron himself intended to travel to Slaver's Bay in the first place? The impression one gets in AFfC is that he wants to marry Dany and become a dragonrider and king at her side. There is no hint he wants to steal her dragons with the horn.

Moqorro's magic seems to be both very effective. And his knowledge of the future is almost insanely precise. The idea that Euron can do something to counter that is very unlikely. I mean, if the horn is going to cause a dragon to fly to Euron then Moqorro should have foreseen that and considering that he doesn't seem to want to support Euron makes it unlikely that he would not prevent that.

I mean, why would he be there if not to prevent that?

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7 hours ago, Unknownfinger said:

I would disagree that we would have seen it by now. Euron is not a POV and therefore it's something we can't dismiss just because we would have seen it by now.

Really, if GRRM wanted to hint he was a skinchanger, he could have had a couple of ravens/crows reporting to him or seeming to be under his command, he calls himself Crows' Eye after all :rolleyes:. Or have a dog/cat or some other animal be a constant companion. Hell if Euron had gifted some animal to Victarion on his journey, we could have speculated that he's skinchanging it. But yeah, somehow people think he can effortlessly skinchange the Dusky Woman without her showing any resistance??? Then why not just skinchange the dragons??

Euron may have magical potential, but he's more of an eastern magic guy than a Old-Gods magic type.  

Edited by Little Scribe of Naath

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Another aspect I thought about: there's a subsection of book readers who love the military/strategy angle on ASOIAF. And it's been known for ages that the closer the series got to its end, the more prevalent the magical aspect would be. But this chapter brought home not only how big a role magic would play, which we could infer from other POV's, but a special aspect about it: this guy, Euron Greyjoy, will be bending the natural order on a big scale to turn the tides (pun intended) in a battle, and perhaps even summon creatures from the sea.

This development is bound to annoy some of that subset of readers.

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On 7/4/2016 at 2:21 PM, Lord Varys said:

Well, I was the one who was keeping up Euron's torch all those long years but now we seem to be reaching the opposite point. Suddenly Euron is behind everything. That is equally problematic.

The skinchanging idea is problematic for obvious reason. We have no idea whether Euron actually is a capable skinchanger despite the fact that we have hints he might have been (once) a greenseer candidate. You have to hone both abilities before you can do stuff and we have no reason to assume Euron ever received any formal training after Bloodraven (presumably) discarded him.

Skinchanging into a person is a very difficult business. The idea that he can do that to his mutes without it becoming evident makes no sense.

Then there is the idea that Euron might be seeing stuff far away - as of yet we don't know whether he has a glass candle.

My personal guess is that he only realized his potential a short time ago. Else he would have come back much earlier. Once he captured the warlocks the shade of the evening helped him to open his eyes (or perhaps rather his third eye) to his magical potential. And now he is testing what he can do.

All of this. euron is no skinchanger. His magic comes from the shade of the evening that he captured with the  warlocks. He is strong, brave, cruel, driven and  merciless. Why wouldn't he use a power he recently discovered?  

On 7/7/2016 at 7:40 AM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

You can bet that if Euron had any kind of skinchanging power, we would have seen it by now. A guy like this isn't going to refrain from mind-controlling people/animals to achieve his ends.

We must also remember that skinchanging/greenseeing, as a type of magic, is one that seems to be enhanced with a personal (bodily) sacrifice. Bran loses his legs, Bloodraven has practically gone into the tree, Arya skinchanges the cat in Braavos when she's blind.

Euron hasn't sacrificed any part of himself yet -  he seems to sacrifice others to harness magic (which seems to be the MO of eastern magic practitioners:  see R'hllor priests, birth of Dany's dragons, so on.). It seems to me that Euron is like an antithesis of Bran - someone who desperately wants to perform magic, become a God and rule the world rather than being born with an innate ability to do so. He appears to have learnt methods to perform magic through either study or observation during his travels,IMO.

Bingo. 

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Unbelievable, it seems that Euron greyjoy and Cersei Lannister will replace Ramsey Bolton as the bad guys after the later is killed.

I heard people speaking of Euron stealing one of Daenarys Dragon's after or a little before she takes over King's landing. Nothing certain.

Let us see what the Winds of Winter Books behold. ^_^

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I don't see how Cersei can be seen as the tall shadow of a woman with pale white fire in her hands. She's tall, she's a woman, but that's about it. What about pale white fire represents Cersei. This is the books, not the fanfiction on HBO. Cersei doesn't know where the rest of the wildfire is located, neither does anyone else. She (Cersei) won't burn down anything else with wildfire. It's dragonfire hitting the wrong thing in KL that will set the wildfire off, it's Dany who will be blamed for the destruction of KL.

Euron and the woman in the vision seem to amuse themselves by seeing other lords and claimants fighting over land/crowns and destroying themselves. Seems they are having a good ol' time. What about Maggie the Frog's prophecy hints at Cersei having a good ol' time after her kids die and another queen takes her place? It's the opposite, it says she'll cry so often, so much, that her tears could drown her. Grief, bitterness, despair and then a shocking death is in Cersei's immediate future - not being named Queen again, not being given more power at the side of a would-be Night's King.

Cersei is damaged goods on her last legs, she's been a queen in some fashion since the start of the series, Cersei's and Margery's time is up. It's Arianne, Sansa, and Dany's time for being Queens.

And as an aside, the way Littlefinger talks he can remove her from "the game" at any moment he chooses. He has something incredibly incriminating on her we've yet to know about. No matter how much Varys wants Cersei around to cause trouble for the Tyrell-Lannister alliance, seems that Littlefinger is prepared to stomp all over that when it's best suited for his ambitions. Just wanted to remind everyone of that important seemingly throw-away line back in AFFC. Littlefinger does not make idle threats.

Edited by Ser Biscuit

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i have s question about Falia Flowers. 

Euron promised to marry her as his second wife, and she was pregnant, and she obviously loved Euron deeply. She was also quite beautiful. so what made Euron change his mind and try to kill her? 

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For him to have changed his mind you'd first have to accept that he was telling Falia the truth. Why would you accept that?

I think Euron has exactly what he only ever wanted from Falia, an unborn child of his blood to sacrifice.

Blood of the dragon Rhaego died in Dany's womb by way of blood magic, became dragon like, and for it Dany got dragons. Oh, and her brother died before that too. Let us see what Euron can conjure out of his kraken blood stirring in Falia's womb and an added measure of his brother's blood.

Euron isn't sure exactly how all this works, but he does have some idea.

Edited by chrisdaw

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