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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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2 minutes ago, Nights Kings Queen said:

I've missed some of the comments here, so sorry if this has been asked or answered, but does this chapter officially debunk the Euron = Daario theory?

LOL. Yes.

Euron isn't the dusky woman, either, though this idea about him potentially warging the people whose tongue he's cut out is interesting.

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19 hours ago, Ran said:

The dwarves entirely match those that Dany saw in the House of the Undying, ravishing a beautiful woman. Most have read that image as being the five kings tearing apart Westeros.

I had an alternate take on that. I posited that the rat-faced dwarves were Frey men defiling Catelyn's body before throwing it in the river. House Frey would absolutely side with Euron (most of them anyway) and they would be pleased as punch to revel in King's Landing as men and women of consequence instead of underlings from the Riverlands.  Just a thought.

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14 minutes ago, draft0 said:

I guess the big question is what is Euron's endgame?

His original plan involved taking the Iron Fleet to Meereen and stealing Dany and her dragons. It appears that plan went to shit because of recalcitrant Ironborn. Now what?

Does Euron have a Plan B? Or is Euron treading water until Vic comes back? I'm sure Euron has many prophetic visions from drinking shade of the evening. Or at least thinks he does--perhaps similar to Damphair's visions. If Oldtown is a nexus of magic, that might register on his prophetic radar. Or he might see a path to claim Westeros through another vision.

He needs something big, though. Without dragons there is absolutely no way he can take the Iron Throne.

He could be waiting for Victarion to do all  the hard work (marry Dany and get her dragons) and then just take them from him.

His Valyrian Steel armour. Did he buy, stole or find it? Could he had it made for him? I don't know if there are Valyrian Steel lying out there in the world :/ 

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Ugh, if Dampy dies here then all the more reason for thinking his previous chapters were unnecessary (well, his first one was unnecessary, his second one just could've used a better POV like Asha). This could've work well as a prologue/epilogue if that were the case. 

Anyway, people laughed at me when I said Euron would sit the Iron Throne, and here you have it. Who's laughing now, huh? * laughs maniacally*

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My impressions:

-Euron is definitely the stone beast breathing shadowfire. There have now been three characters claimed to have been prophesized or "chosen" by the gods. Dany will slay all these lies by being the PtwP. I don't think any other answer is still possible.

-This is probably not Aeron's last chapter. He will probably live as long as he needs to witness what is going on with Euron.

-When Moqorro said Euron was heading toward Dany he was right. It seems to me that Euron is heading into battle with the Redwyne fleet. Once that is done he will continue on to Meereen. The ships that went missing from Vicky's fleet were probably ordered to turn around and attack the Redwyne fleet from the rear.

-I think the dwarfs are Aegon and Cersei. I don't like saying that, but that's what I think.

-I'm still not sure if the corpse smiling sadly is Vicky or Euron.

Damn, I wish this had been read years ago! Thank you to all who took the notes and shared them with the rest of us.

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1 hour ago, JEORDHl said:

You're right, but only insofar as the filler having graduated to full on bloat. My opinion of course, but there it is. :P

Bloat would be Brienne's first 4 chapters. 

Euron's poised to become the Final Boss before the White Walkers maybe even the Final Boss if he becomes a second Night's King. 

Bloat wouldn't change the story if you take it out. Taking Euron out seems like it'll completely change the endgame 

Edited by Lord_Ravenstone

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I don't think even Quentyn was necessarily bloat. If news of his death gets back to Dorne, it could prove the vital thing that sets Dorne *against* Daenerys, and perhaps makes them declare for the False Dragon (Aegon) against the True Dragon (Daenerys).

Edited by JLE

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19 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Ugh, if Dampy dies here then all the more reason for thinking his previous chapters were unnecessary (well, his first one was unnecessary, his second one just could've used a better POV like Asha). This could've work well as a prologue/epilogue if that were the case. 

Anyway, people laughed at me when I said Euron would sit the Iron Throne, and here you have it. Who's laughing now, huh? * laughs maniacally*

I think we're going to have another POV with him 

We'll see Euron's next battle from his point of view 

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"Bloat would be Brienne's first 4 chapters. 

Euron's poised to become the Final Boss before the White Walkers maybe even the Final Boss if he becomes a second Night's King. 

Bloat wouldn't change the story if you take it out. Taking Euron out seems like it'll completely change the endgame"

 

Of course it would change the endgame, because he's been written into the endgame. Which doesn't change my point, at all. It exemplifies it, actually. I mean, absent textual evidence, beyond --the advent of Euron could've been foreshadowed by this dream or that vision-- Euron's relevance was introduced in Feast and Dance, so, filler and bloat equals more filler and bloat, more for Martin to factor in/resolve, more writing, less and less chance of seven rather than eight books, etc etc. 

Edited by JEORDHl

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I could be the only person who's satisfied with this chapter being loosed upon the world now as opposed to years ago. It feels like it's building up to everything that happens in TWOW. But that's me. 

Makes me wonder what all this has to do with the Seastone chair and the oily stone theories. 

 

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4 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

"Bloat would be Brienne's first 4 chapters. 

Euron's poised to become the Final Boss before the White Walkers maybe even the Final Boss if he becomes a second Night's King. 

Bloat wouldn't change the story if you take it out. Taking Euron out seems like it'll completely change the endgame"

 

Of course it would change the endgame, because he's been written into the endgame. Which doesn't change my point, at all. It exemplifies it, actually. I mean, absent textual evidence, beyond --the advent of Euron could've been foreshadowed by this dream or that vision-- Euron's relevance was introduced in Feast and Dance, so, filler bloat equals more filler bloat, mor4e for Martin to factor in/resolve, more writing, less and less chance of seven rather than eight books, etc etc. 

Euron's relevance has been introduced since ACOK.

He's in the HOTU visions along with Aegon and one of the ones prophecized to be Dany's husband 

Also Robb talks about him in ASOS saying he's making a claim to become king again 

Also that's a pretty silly statement. All characters are in the endgame because they've been written into it

Edited by Lord_Ravenstone

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6 minutes ago, JLE said:

I don't think even Quentyn was necessarily bloat. If news of his death gets back to Dorne, it could prove the vital thing that sets Dorne *against* Daenerys, and perhaps makes them declare for the False Dragon (Aegon) against the True Dragon (Daenerys).

We didn't need to see it, we could have just seen the consequences of his actions.  But that's not a debate for this thread

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6 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

"Bloat would be Brienne's first 4 chapters. 

Euron's poised to become the Final Boss before the White Walkers maybe even the Final Boss if he becomes a second Night's King. 

Bloat wouldn't change the story if you take it out. Taking Euron out seems like it'll completely change the endgame"

 

Of course it would change the endgame, because he's been written into the endgame. Which doesn't change my point, at all. It exemplifies it, actually. I mean, absent textual evidence, beyond --the advent of Euron could've been foreshadowed by this dream or that vision-- Euron's relevance was introduced in Feast and Dance, so, filler and bloat equals more filler and bloat, more for Martin to factor in/resolve, more writing, less and less chance of seven rather than eight books, etc etc. 

I've been convinced since AFFC came out that the guy on the ship with grey lips in the house of the undying is Euron. So he's been planned from the beginning.

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Meh. None of that actually helps out your line of argumentation, LR, and I don't feel like arguing about it anyway. This really feels like an extension of the argument in the Monkey's Growing thread regarding the overwriting of the Gap, so... I'm totally fine with you having your opinion here.

Edited by JEORDHl

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Also, Quentyn set the dragons free, otherwise they would still have been chained... So that they are participating in the Battle of Meereen while not under control of any person or faction... So that at least one of them will be within range of the dragon horn when Victarion has it blown... And in the end, it will be controlled *against* Dany. Because Dany is not there to meet Victarion, nor will Victarion be able to stay to meet her.

In the preview Tyrion chapter that GRRM has read, it was hinted that Rhaegal (the green one) was flying over near the ironborn warships - and is thus within potential range of the horn - while Viserion (the white one) has left the battle. The fact that Tyrion is later seen wiping blood off a blood-specked white dragon cyvasse piece may hint that Viserion is injured (hence fleeing from the battle) and that Tyrion will nurse him back to health and become Viserion's rider.

Leaving Rhaegal heading back towards Westeros - under either Euron's control, if he is still bound to the horn as its true "master", or Victarion's. In either case, Rhaegal will be the first dragon of Dany's three to come back to Westeros, and its master will have free rein to do whatever he likes there until he is opposed by another dragon - probably Dany on Drogon, belatedly hearing the news that one of her "children" has been stolen from Meereen. Tyrion, arriving late on Viserion, may prove to be a third factor in the battle, but Dany and Euron will be *against* each other: Drogon will fight Rhaegal in another Dance of the Dragons.

Whether Rhaegal is the first dragon *at all* to be seen there, depends on what becomes of Euron's dragon egg, whether he threw it into the sea or gave it to the Faceless Men (I believe the former is more likely than the latter - and given the sea-dragon imagery that exists, the later appearance of a sea dragon under Euron's control would not surprise me one bit).

My best guess is that Euron has some surprise plan left over for if Victarion does succeed in coming back with a dragon, and betraying him - either he thinks the horn is still "his" and will bind the dragon (Rhaegal) to him, or he has plans to defeat Victarion even if Victarion becomes a master of dragons. This is where I wonder about his sea dragon egg being a potential factor - or indeed the fact that Euron appears to be after the dragon-lore tome in Oldtown.

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I can totally see Melisandre being that terrible shadowed tall woman with white fire. She is i think the character that better fits.

Quote

. . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness, Sam.

 

 

she could in some way also help the Others cause... unknowinly lead westeros into deeper darknes.

And Euron :

Quote

But beyond the Wall, the enemy grows stronger, and should he win the dawn will never come again. She wondered if it had been his face that she had seen, staring out at her from the flames. No. Surely not. His visage would be more frightening than that, cold and black and too terrible for any man to gaze upon and live. The wooden man she had glimpsed, though, and the boy with the wolf’s face … they were his servants, surely … his champions, as Stannis was hers.

Melisaandre introduced us to the champion of the Great Other.

Kind of Reverse Azor ahai.. Euron is adicted to liquid LSD (AKA shade of the eveging) in a quest to defeat all gods, and even become one,.. to  break the world to remake it.. bleeding star and all that.

A warlock king in search of powers that he doesn´t fully understand. I can totally see him  when he takes the HighTower , sounding the Horn of Winter from the top of said tower.

A horn of fire to get a dragon (maybe to use it to take oldtown.. there were dragons at the battle islands once).. and a horn of ice.. to wake the giants of the earth.

 

Edited by LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse

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1 hour ago, Nights Kings Queen said:

I've missed some of the comments here, so sorry if this has been asked or answered, but does this chapter officially debunk the Euron = Daario theory?

Heh, never! What is dead may never die!

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Whether Euron represents the great stone beast or the smiling corpse or both, he was obviously foreshadowed as early as ACOK and is not an afterthought.

Bloat is in the eye of the beholder. It is a fool's game to argue with those that criticize the books with words like bloat, boring, etc. These are subjective opinions and the only ones who can change their minds is them.

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