rayarts Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Love the article. However, I don't think Sandra is dim or cunning. I think she is a hot BAB mess. As all these episodes before we as fans try to see sense in the show plot and character development. But believe me, there is none. The reason she acted the way she did is plain and simple bad writing and that's it. Her actions will be erratic, inconsistent with stuff before and after and all over the place from now on. And it has nothing to do with the story. It has to do with D&D's inability to hold the huge story universe of Asoiaf together. It's a MESS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Gracchus Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 On June 20, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Nami said: the big white dog "[Ghost] was in there in spades originally, but it's also an incredibly time consuming and expensive character to bring to life," the episode's director Miguel Sapochnik told Business Insider on Monday. "Ultimately we had to choose between Wun-Wun and the direwolf, so the dog bit the dust." Well there we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyDoom Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, rayarts said: Love the article. However, I don't think Sandra is dim or cunning. I think she is a hot BAB mess. As all these episodes before we as fans try to see sense in the show plot and character development. But believe me, there is none. The reason she acted the way she did is plain and simple bad writing and that's it. Her actions will be erratic, inconsistent with stuff before and after and all over the place from now on. And it has nothing to do with the story. It has to do with D&D's inability to hold the huge story universe of Asoiaf together. It's a MESS. I think that's it! Evil Sandra is probably more than the writers can accomplish, and at this point, more interesting than what they actually will go with, which will probably be Sandra playing right into LF hands because she feels like she owes him.... or now she suddenly wants to protect Jon or something, after she pushed everyone aside for the sake of revenge. I don't know who Sandra is, but I haven't liked her since she willingly walked into the Bolton's den without a plan. I think that's one of the things that tipped the balance for me with the show , if she had been forced there it would all be differently, people would be quicker to support her claim, but no one forced her, she choose to go thinking that what? I still don't get what she thought she would get out of that? And it ruined her character because it hinted that Sansa would do something awesome just to end up going for the book story anyway. I can understand why they wanted to merge the Sansa story with Ramsay's and Theon's but I can't understand why they made her go there willingly. I still don't get what LF expected to get out of that either. I mean I sincerely don't get it. and I took LF to be more clever than that. He could have orchestrated a kidnap of Sansa, I mean in the show they knew she was Sansa Stark, he could have faked a kidnapping that would have led her to Winterfell. and then play the hero and win her favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgain Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Survivor92 said: ... the excuse "Daenerys/Yara simply consult their advisors, as any wise ruler would do. Genders have nothing to do with it." See, that could be true if this was one isolated case, but things like this happen all the time. ... ... There are countless examples that show D&D simply do not understand women and are, subconsciously, very very sexist. My point above was that - as it came across to me when I watched this scene AFTER reading critique here - Dany was alerting Tyrion as a witness. That is exactly what would fit with an important verbal agreement, before it was scribed (written). It seemed odd to not have Missandei or another admin there to scribe it as the meeting was planned in advance. Maybe the Ironborn are illiterate and oral tradition, but Dany and Tyrion are literate rulers. But the show has many illogical, badly written details so I didn't find that very odd. My second thought was this 'alerting' was badly done, because it could also look like D was seeking approval, from [touchy issue] a male adviser. You are right this is all the more important to show clearly, because there is so much sexism, on this show and elsewhere. There is a difference between consulting with an adviser, and seeking approval. A good ruler can either be a benevolent dictator or a democratic cooperative style. A good dictator can carry enough support to make their dominance work. People like a childlike safety, up to a point. It has to deliver the goods (bread, booze & circuses, in modern forms benefits, booze and internet/ cheap gadgets). Dany has to deliver freedom from slavery, bread, and protection. Alternatively she consults with people - but the final decision is hers. That's what being the boss means. If it's a 100% matter of consulting and voting then it's council rule. The real problem of course, is not that there are three different interpretations: alert to witness, consult adviser, seeking approval. (Seeking approval is not good for either gender but worse for female). The real problem is that D&D as so often don't bother to make it clear which possibility this was. Sometimes ambiguity, blurred impressions, can be creative. It can make a rich literature with many equally interesting and satisfying interpretations. That would apply to the alert/ consult threads. D&D would need to delete the possibility of the seek approval thread - or else undermine their profile of a powerful ruler. Sadly we all know D&D are bad at attention to detail, and appalling at sexism. So as so often, followers are left with the heave effort of making sense of the work. That is not the same thing as comparing two or more satisfying interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Red Tiger said: You know what, I dont believe that Sandra (yes, im gonna start using it too) is evil. But for the sake of headcanon and a more interesting story, im gonna pretend she is. It's gonna be AWESOME. LOL I've finally just watched the episode (yes, it took me a good two days to talk myself into watching it) and I think I'm going with you, and I'm going to take it one further. IF the show tries to give us a Good, but Oh So Bad Ass Lady Sybil Sandra.....I too will pretend she's just evil underneath going Mwhahahaha. If they try to go with Evil or Ambiguous Sandra the SortaSlut then I am going to pretend she is Snow White and pure as the driven ahhhhhhhh.........snow? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 52 minutes ago, rayarts said: Love the article. However, I don't think Sandra is dim or cunning. I think she is a hot BAB mess. As all these episodes before we as fans try to see sense in the show plot and character development. But believe me, there is none. The reason she acted the way she did is plain and simple bad writing and that's it. Her actions will be erratic, inconsistent with stuff before and after and all over the place from now on. And it has nothing to do with the story. It has to do with D&D's inability to hold the huge story universe of Asoiaf together. It's a MESS. THIS times a thousand. And, I'm feeling kinda sad about it, actually. I can't get a giant rant up after watching today, it's just a HOT MESS all around, and the D;s are just rushing to the end of a story that they no longer care much about, if ever they understood it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Cas Stark said: Yeah, I've been resisting calling Sandra Bolton evil, and have stuck w/deceitful and bad. But, I'll go with the flow. What she did, letting her family's only remaining allies go into a battle they were doomed to lose, and getting her brother killed in the process and almost her half brother, just for giggles....it's pretty evil. I'll give her a pass on her evil smirk at killing Ramsay, even though, not to Stark-like....but the rest of it...evil. Yes. It's weird, right before I read your post, and the not very Stark like mention at the end, I was thinking of all the horrible praise for Sansa, Lady of The Kennels, and all I could think to myself was: Wouldn't Ned be so proud? Actually, I found her whole smirking routines throughout the episode to be reminiscent of Dead Pan, maybe she's the second coming. Or maybe........Sandra will get eaten by a dragon, there is always that to hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemo Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Why did they make Asha a lesbian? Was it so they could give her "hot lesbian sex scenes"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said: THIS times a thousand. And, I'm feeling kinda sad about it, actually. I can't get a giant rant up after watching today, it's just a HOT MESS all around, and the D;s are just rushing to the end of a story that they no longer care much about, if ever they understood it. Dance this mess around! B-52's flashback. Yeah, they'll just throw everything together however they want it to be, to wrap this thing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisikli123 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 hours ago, The Knight in Motley said: I'm still betting on N+L=J. LF will reveal to Jon he's a bastard of incest, and that if he tries to interfere with LF and Sandra's honeymoon, he'll tell everyone. Jon sees this as his own permission to try and win Sandra away from LF. Then Jon thanks LF for the Digitus Ex Machina. What, why are you looking at me like that? You know its probably more plausible than whatever they do go with. thats only your dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, teemo said: Why did they make Asha a lesbian? Was it so they could give her "hot lesbian sex scenes"? So she can fuck Dany and all the teen boys watching get their lesbian sex plus feminists think this is all so very feminist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyDoom Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 minute ago, teemo said: Why did they make Asha a lesbian? Was it so they could give her "hot lesbian sex scenes"? Yes and because at least one of each Dany new comers has to want to get in her pants, always. And we know Theon is just a walking eunuch joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 14 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said: It's weird, right before I read your post, and the not very Stark like mention at the end, I was thinking of all the horrible praise for Sansa, Lady of The Kennels, and all I could think to myself was: Wouldn't Ned be so proud? Actually, I found her whole smirking routines throughout the episode to be reminiscent of Dead Pan, maybe she's the second coming. Or maybe........Sandra will get eaten by a dragon, there is always that to hope for. They've ruined the entire Stark family, with the exception of Arya . Other than the fact people have been rooting for them for 6 seasons, there is no reason to support them. Sandra Bolton: evil and stupid, mini needle was a clue she would turn into mini-Cersei, she's now meaner than Carol, seven save us. Jon, even dumber than Sandra, not as mean, but too dumb to lead the North, Bran, kid can't follow a single direction, hold the door, and his stupidity got everyone around him killed and opened the door for the apocalypse, so, he's out. Arya only became brutally stupid for that one segment then regained her awesome Avengers skills, so other than the fact that she's a stone cold eye gouging out killer....she's sort of okay. LOL. The NK should blow WF and everyone in it right the fuck up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 hour ago, rayarts said: Love the article. However, I don't think Sandra is dim or cunning. I think she is a hot BAB mess. As all these episodes before we as fans try to see sense in the show plot and character development. But believe me, there is none. The reason she acted the way she did is plain and simple bad writing and that's it. Her actions will be erratic, inconsistent with stuff before and after and all over the place from now on. And it has nothing to do with the story. It has to do with D&D's inability to hold the huge story universe of Asoiaf together. It's a MESS. This. They don't know how to tell a story, they are just winging it. It will mean whatever they want it to mean, and then it will mean something else, and then another thing, until they wrap this up, which can't come too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisikli123 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 What do you expext from Jon. He wanted to save Rickon and couldnt ride backwards. He did the right thing Riding forward was the only choice. It also motivated his army. Maybe Sansa thought Jon is dead and they waited until the end to attack Ramsey. She now can be the queen. You can be happy Sansa fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 17 minutes ago, yakisikli123 said: What do you expext from Jon. He wanted to save Rickon and couldnt ride backwards. He did the right thing Riding forward was the only choice. It also motivated his army. Maybe Sansa thought Jon is dead and they waited until the end to attack Ramsey. She now can be the queen. You can be happy Sansa fans. He couldn't save Rickon. Even Sandra knew that. I mean, really, anyone watching this thought Rickon was going to live? It just looked stupid as heck. If he wanted to try to save Rickon, he should have grabbed a bow and arrow and tried to hit Ramsay, not charge ridiculously in the battlefield. He should have died. It was the real outcome, but of course he had the plot armor. By the way I was rewatching that scene and it's freaking hilarious how at one point 20 arrows dropped on him and hit everything around him but not him, as if there was something actually covering him. I mean jfc, couldn't he have grabbed a shield or whatever to protect himself? It just looked stupid as fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisikli123 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, Nami said: He couldn't save Rickon. Even Sandra knew that. I mean, really, anyone watching this thought Rickon was going to live? It just looked stupid as heck. If he wanted to try to save Rickon, he should have grabbed a bow and arrow and tried to hit Ramsay, not charge ridiculously in the battlefield. He should have died. It was the real outcome, but of course he had the plot armor. By the way I was rewatching that scene and it's freaking hilarious how at one point 20 arrows dropped on him and hit everything around him but not him, as if there was something actually covering him. I mean jfc, couldn't he have grabbed a shield or whatever to protect himself? It just looked stupid as fuck. He had to try to save him. And no he shouldnt have died, therefore he didnt die. And yes its possible 20 arrows not hitting him, thats fate. Maybe exact this scene occured several times in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Jon and Rickon are the only ones in the whole episode I came away liking. It doesn't even matter what they did, the plot was nonsense. I just saw that they cared about each other. One moment, where two people actually seemed human, in an hour long show, and that was it. I'm just going to pretend they went to book land, and had a nice reunion. Frolicked with Ghost and Shaggydog in a meadow. Set off to find Bran and Arya. Were joined by Nymeria on the way. Sure would have been better than what we have been watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Jon and Rickon are the only ones in the whole episode I came away liking. It doesn't even matter what they did, the plot was nonsense. I just saw that they cared about each other. One moment, where two people actually seemed human, in an hour long show, and that was it. I'm just going to pretend they went to book land, and had a nice reunion. Frolicked with Ghost and Shaggydog in a meadow. Set off to find Bran and Arya. Were joined by Nymeria on the way. Sure would have been better than what we have been watching. I wish they would have casted someone better to play Jon Snow. Maybe I would've even ignored his idiotic moves and feel for him Kit Harrington, he's the male k-stew, so I just don't care for anything he's feeling, whatever that is because I didn't know if it was anger or sadness when the camera locked on his face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Not saying anything good about the stupid show, but I think I saw love for his little brother there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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