(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion

[Morgain]

4 hours ago, Survivor92 said:

And they can't even do feminism right. Their whole idea of empowerment is sooo, sooo wrong.

Their female characters always need the approval of men (look at Dany and Yara before making the alliance, if this was one isolated case you could argue they are simply listening to their advisors but this happens all the time). Sansa can only be a "strong female" by getting revenge. Brienne is only empowered through violence. D&D think the only way for a female to be empowered is either through violence/revenge or sex. That's it.

It hasn't entered their minds that women can also be strong because of their empathy, intelligence, social/diplomatic skills, cunning, honor, sense of justice etc.

Sansa in the books is a very empathetic person, Brienne is quite insecure and more like the opposite of a cold-blooded killer, et cetera

D&D's whole idea that rape+revenge = empowerment is so downright insulting and yet people still seem to think this show is actually good for feminism.

I agree D&D are piss poor about feminism and laughably ignorant about mediaeval women.

But as an old radical feminist I liked the Dany & Yara scene. It came across with a fair degree of humour to me, and I think that's down to the two actors - not the show direction or writing anyway.

Also I ran the moment several times where Dany looks to Tyrion just before she agrees the deal. Seems to me she's alerting him to witness - witnesses are mega important to making contracts if you're not writing them down - (why was there no scribe? maybe Missandei?)

However D&D are so hamfisted that if this was a matter of 'Hey Tyrion note this, I'm clinching the deal here' D&D completely misse the big issue that this COULD look so easily like checking approval. That for a powerful woman to check approval is fraught because of how things are for power women. They needed to think it out more ... Dany says ceremonially 'Tyrion Lannister I hereby require you to stand witness to my contract with Yara Ironborn'. Job done. But D&D you know, carefulness, feminism, checking detail, not their things.

[kuf]

Are people really that concerned over other people's inability to enjoy a show as much as they do?

 

 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, Morgain said:

 

Also I ran the moment several times where Dany looks to Tyrion just before she agrees the deal. Seems to me she's alerting him to witness - witnesses are mega important to making contracts if you're not writing them down - (why was there no scribe? maybe Missandei?)

 

2

Nope.

You're really reading into that scene trying to give it validity. If you wanted witness, especially in those times, just like you said, there would be a scribe. Not a "hey pal, you watching this? You getting this down with your eyes?" Because she's the Queen of Dragons, it doesn't matter. 

She was weirdly looking for approval from a man.

[Ser Quork]

10 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Nope.

You're really reading into that scene trying to give it validity. If you wanted witness, especially in those times, just like you said, there would be a scribe. Not a "hey pal, you watching this? You getting this down with your eyes?" Because she's the Queen of Dragons, it doesn't matter. 

She was weirdly looking for approval from a man.

And Yara did the same from Theon (just like Sansa did the same with Theon when Brienne offered to pledge her service).

I bet the writers don't even realise how it undermines these characters.

[Steelegrave]

56 minutes ago, kuf said:

Are people really that concerned over other people's inability to enjoy a show as much as they do?

 

 

Its pretty damn cult-like.

[Nami]

1 hour ago, kuf said:

Are people really that concerned over other people's inability to enjoy a show as much as they do?

 

 

You just can't say anything about it or they'll call you a book snob

honestly, they really don't give much thought to what they're seeing
it got to a point of just mindless entertainment that had depth once
it became a hollywood cliche basically

[Steelegrave]

Finally some common sense:

 

http://www.theweek.com/articles/631406/game-thrones-sansa-problem

 

[Nami]

You guys think they're going to reveal R+L=J next episode? or just half of it

[Red Tiger]

10 minutes ago, Nami said:

You guys think they're going to reveal R+L=J next episode? or just half of it

Spoiler

They're gonna show Lyanna, she'll whisper something to Ned and then it will show a baby, then cut to Jon.

 

[Ser Quork]

46 minutes ago, Steelegrave said:

Finally some common sense:

 

http://www.theweek.com/articles/631406/game-thrones-sansa-problem

 

Great article.  Let's post it EVERYWHERE!!

[The Knight in Motley]

20 minutes ago, Nami said:

You guys think they're going to reveal R+L=J next episode? or just half of it

I'm still betting on N+L=J.  LF will reveal to Jon he's a bastard of incest, and that if he tries to interfere with LF and Sandra's honeymoon, he'll tell everyone.  Jon sees this as his own permission to try and win Sandra away from LF.  Then Jon thanks LF for the Digitus Ex Machina.

What, why are you looking at me like that? You know its probably more plausible than whatever they do go with.

[Paxter Redwyne]

On 20.06.2016 at 0:49 PM, ummester said:

Ha ha - I wondered that at the start of the season.

Speaking of Clarke, is she competing with Dinklage to be the worst actor in the show. It's possible that seeing them together is worse than Tyrion with Miss Worm.

And my big fucking huge rant - Why would Ramsay's dogs eat him, even if they are fricken' starving? It has been previously established in the show just how much control he has over them - when their blood is up and they are on the hunt for the women he likes to abuse he can still make them sit and wait for his command to attack. He has total control of those animals. Having them eat him made Sansa's revenge feel cheap.

Muahahahaha!!! I was right in previous thread! They did this crap!

 

P.S. This episode sucked as much as I expected.

[Armand Gargalen]

6 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

I'll just drop this here, too: http://imgur.com/a/58xeo

D&D´s Sansa!!!! Love her or hate her

[TepidHands]

1 hour ago, Steelegrave said:

Finally some common sense:

 

http://www.theweek.com/articles/631406/game-thrones-sansa-problem

 

Damn!

Quote

Her arrival on the battlefield is not, in the Cunning Sansa timeline, a Proud Feminist moment. It indicates, rather, that Sansa is willing to sacrifice most of an army and both her surviving brothers in order to achieve her aims.

...Either Sansa planned Littlefinger's late arrival — in which case she's responsible for the carnage and for recovering Winterfell, or she didn't and gets no credit for the victory. She just got lucky. I worry — I really do — that Game of Thrones, by eliding the horrific compromises she'd have had to make offscreen to make this work, is awkwardly trying to make her virtuous and a great planner, a feminist powerhouse who might still be a force for good. The Battle of the Bastards made that structurally impossible. I hope they see that. I hope they don't try to make her both.

 

[Prince of the North]

4 minutes ago, TepidHands said:

Damn!

 

  Schrodinger's Sansa!  Dim AND cunning - at the same time!

[Philokles]

2 hours ago, Steelegrave said:

Finally some common sense:

 

http://www.theweek.com/articles/631406/game-thrones-sansa-problem

 

It is a good article, but Sandra is even more evil than she is given credit for. Luring Ramsay did not have to entail risking the lives of Rickon and Jon, so she was presumably more than happy to see them die even if there was another option. Not that it matters, as she says at the start of the article this is a writing oversight, missed in the desire to create a dramatic ending.

[ogi]

Am I the only one who thought about the last time Sansa made some secret plans with strangers. I.e. the bit in KL, leading the Ned to lose a head ...

And regarding that true scotsman feminist stuff; is the critisise without reprecussion resticted to the show or can I join in there?

[Red Tiger]

You know what, I dont believe that Sandra (yes, im gonna start using it too) is evil. But for the sake of headcanon and a more interesting story, im gonna pretend she is. It's gonna be AWESOME.

[Survivor92]

3 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

And Yara did the same from Theon (just like Sansa did the same with Theon when Brienne offered to pledge her service).

I bet the writers don't even realise how it undermines these characters.

Agreed. Most people either don't realize it or are already honeypotting it with the excuse "Daenerys/Yara simply consult their advisors, as any wise ruler would do. Genders have nothing to do with it."

See, that could be true if this was one isolated case, but things like this happen all the time. Men act, women are. Sex or violence is the key to empowerment.

Remember that Wildling (not!Val) who suddenly wanted to die when she saw two undead children, because of her motherly instincts? There are countless examples that show D&D simply do not understand women and are, subconsciously, very very sexist.

[Cas Stark]

26 minutes ago, Super Mario said:

It is a good article, but Sandra is even more evil than she is given credit for. Luring Ramsay did not have to entail risking the lives of Rickon and Jon, so she was presumably more than happy to see them die even if there was another option. Not that it matters, as she says at the start of the article this is a writing oversight, missed in the desire to create a dramatic ending.

Yeah, I've been resisting calling Sandra Bolton evil, and have stuck w/deceitful and bad.  But, I'll go with the flow.  What she did, letting her family's only remaining allies go into a battle they were doomed to lose, and getting her brother killed in the process and almost her half brother, just for giggles....it's pretty evil.  I'll give her a pass on her evil smirk at killing Ramsay, even though, not to Stark-like....but the rest of it...evil. Yes.