NBA Offseason: The Draft, Free Agency and Trade Rumors Oh My!

[Jaime L]

4 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

Wasn't Ibaka the guy they let Harden get away for? Now trading him for a 2guard.

Makes Thunder a much better team I think. D-po is already one of the top sg's in the league. That backcourt could be insane. Makes Durant staying seem even more likely.

It is interesting OKC traded Ibaka after he beasted out against GS as part of the "all 7 foot wingspan" lineup they unleashed. But I get it with smallball reigning supreme and already having talented bigs in Adams and Kanter. Plus they've needed legit wing players forever and now finally have one.

Have to say, Oladipo was the one guy I actually liked in the 2013 draft. He brings everything you want from a wing - 3 point range, passing, defense, sanity. Now if Durant returns, they can go Westbrook, Oladipo, Waiters, Durant, Adams - kinda an ideal clutch lineup in terms of spacing while being big enough to punish other small ball teams. Or switch Waiters for Roberson if you have a lead and want to suffocate teams.

Dementor Sabonis is also intriguing though remains to be seen if he can develop until a useful piece while Westbrook/Durant are in their primes (and still in OKC).

I assume Ilyasova was thrown in because his nickname is the "Turkish Thunder" which, c'mon, this is his destiny. Plus Kanter can now stop dragging Dion Waiters to hookah bars because poor Dion keeps thinking he means something else entirely. Win-win-win 

[Slurktan]

7 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

Wasn't Ibaka the guy they let Harden get away for? Now trading him for a 2guard.

Makes Thunder a much better team I think. D-po is already one of the top sg's in the league. That backcourt could be insane. Makes Durant staying seem even more likely.

Durant was never leaving this year.  Next year is far more likely both him and Russ bolt.

[Calibandar]

16 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I'll admit that it definitely goes into the pro-Wiggins for Love camp.  However, I still feel I must point out that Love didn't actually contribute much to the team in this series.  I would consider him AT BEST the fifth most important Cavalier in this series after Lebron, Irving, Thompson and JR.  Even that is probably selling Richard Jefferson short.  It seems pretty easy to say that the Cavs would have still won the series with Wiggins + some role player (remember they would have had more cash without Love's contract), but that is kind of a sour grapes argument. 

In the end, it is results that matter.  Even if Love had very little to do with it, there is a 100% chance that Cleveland won a championship with him, and a less than 100% chance that they would have won without making the trade.  I still think it's a bad trade, but it can no longer be called catastrophically bad because championship.

I understand what you mean but the argument for Love here is that he did contribute in the other playoff series against Detroit and Toronto, and what he did ( or did not) offer in the regular season. But I tend to agree with you, at first I defended the Love trade a lot, but I feel that despite the title, he's had a bad year himself and didn't offer much. Wiggins would be great on that team I think.

7 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

Wasn't Ibaka the guy they let Harden get away for? Now trading him for a 2guard.

Makes Thunder a much better team I think. D-po is already one of the top sg's in the league. That backcourt could be insane. Makes Durant staying seem even more likely.

I don't love the trade. It instantly reminded me of Harden because it was basically Ibaka they chose to keep over him, and now you sacrifice an excellent Ibaka, for basically Oladipo? In hindsight, wouldn't you rather have kept Harden? My answer to that has always been and still is 100% "Yes".

I'm just not keen on seeing Ibaka go, here is a good part of this team and such a strong defensive presence.

Obviously the backcourt needed improvement but is doing that through trading Ibaka the only way? And is Oladipo really what we're looking for here? Plus Ilyasova who you won't use and a draft pick that won't play.

Maybe it all works out. But this is a big risk, I thought Ibaka was fairly essential, especially with Kanter being a lousy defender.

[Maithanet]

5 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I understand what you mean but the argument for Love here is that he did contribute in the other playoff series against Detroit and Toronto, and what he did ( or did not) offer in the regular season. But I tend to agree with you, at first I defended the Love trade a lot, but I feel that despite the title, he's had a bad year himself and didn't offer much. Wiggins would be great on that team I think.

But did the Cavs really need Love to win the East?  The gap between Cleveland and everyone else is just huge, way more than just what Love offers.  If we swap out Wiggins for Love, how many more games would it have taken to win the East?  Maybe one?  I mean, having another versatile defender like Wiggins would have helped against Atlanta and Toronto too. 

[Rhom]

1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

But did the Cavs really need Love to win the East?  The gap between Cleveland and everyone else is just huge, way more than just what Love offers.  If we swap out Wiggins for Love, how many more games would it have taken to win the East?  Maybe one?  I mean, having another versatile defender like Wiggins would have helped against Atlanta and Toronto too. 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

But did the Cavs really need Love to win the East?  The gap between Cleveland and everyone else is just huge, way more than just what Love offers.  If we swap out Wiggins for Love, how many more games would it have taken to win the East?  Maybe one?  I mean, having another versatile defender like Wiggins would have helped against Atlanta and Toronto too. 

And again, James played his best at the 4, which made Love kind of useless. Having Wiggins beside him at the 3 would have vastly improved the team in the short and long term.

Also, thank god the Wolves didn't do something stupid last night and trade for Butler. Really digging this Dunn pick the more I read up on him.

[David Selig]

Apparently Ibaka wanted to leave next summer when his contract was up, he wanted a bigger role on offense. If true, it is a great deal for OKC. Even if not, it is still a very good deal for them since he wanted have wanted a huge contract which they would find hard to afford if KD and Russ stay since they would need to pay Adams next summer too. Oladipo is inconsistent but he gives them what they have lacked since forever - a SG who can defend well, shoot the open 3 well, is able to slash at a decent level and is a good secondary ball-handler.

Not a bad deal for the Magic too. We had too many wing players and no rim protection.

[Maithanet]

6 minutes ago, David Selig said:

Apparently Ibaka wanted to leave next summer when his contract was up, he wanted a bigger role on offense. If true, it is a great deal for OKC. Even if not, it is still a very good deal for them since he wanted have wanted a huge contract which they would find hard to afford if KD and Russ stay since they would need to pay Adams next summer too. Oladipo is inconsistent but he gives them what they have lacked since forever - a SG who can defend well, shoot the open 3 well, is able to slash at a decent level and is a good secondary ball-handler.

Not a bad deal for the Magic too. We had too many wing players and no rim protection.

The big downside is that it puts a ton of pressure defensively on Adams to provide rim protection.  Kanter no longer has Ibaka to help hide is defensive shortcomings. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Yeah, it really seems like a strange time for the Thunder to screw with the core of that team. They took out the Spurs in 6 and pushed the Warriors to a game 7 with this lineup. 

[DunderMifflin]

Anybody see T Mac on ESPN yesterday saying that he was about to be traded to the Bulls for Scottie Pippin in 1997 but Jordan put a stop to it.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Yeah, it really seems like a strange time for the Thunder to screw with the core of that team. They took out the Spurs in 6 and pushed the Warriors to a game 7 with this lineup. 

I don't think Serge was part of their core nucleus anymore though. Their core 3 now is KD, Russ and The Pirate King. If they can find a good 3 and D wing or a stretch 4 in free agency they should be in great shape. 

[DunderMifflin]

I just think Oladipo is going to fit so well there. His defense is near superstar level for a guard. He is inconsistent on offense but I don't think that will be a huge factor considering he we will likely be 3rd option at best on offense so that's taking a lot of pressure of his game there.

Running fast breaks with him and Westbrook could be something special

[Calibandar]

Apparently the T-Wolves refused a Bulls offer to swap LaVine and Dunn for Butler.

I am sceptical on that being a wise decision. I don't know Dunn, but apparently the Bulls and T-Wolves like him a lot. But I would have taken Butler and forfeited Dunn and LaVine. Butler is an excellent player just coming into his prime and seems like a great fit at Minnesota. They may regret this decision.

Maybe the reason is that Thibs is not keen on Rubio and intends to trade him instead, which would mean Dunn could slot in right from the start as the starting point guard. Unclear how good Dunn would be of course in his rookie year.

Then again on ESPN I just read that the Bulls were the ones who pulled back at the last, so who knows what's true.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, DunderMifflin said:

I just think Oladipo is going to fit so well there. His defense is near superstar level for a guard. He is inconsistent on offense but I don't think that will be a huge factor considering he we will likely be 3rd option at best on offense so that's taking a lot of pressure of his game there.

Running fast breaks with him and Westbrook could be something special

agreed on all accounts. really like this trade for OKC.

As for people talking about the Harden trade...yeah they could have gotten some more value for him, but otherwise he HAD to go. No way can harden westbrook and durant coexist on the same team. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

29 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Apparently the T-Wolves refused a Bulls offer to swap LaVine and Dunn for Butler.

I am sceptical on that being a wise decision. I don't know Dunn, but apparently the Bulls and T-Wolves like him a lot. But I would have taken Butler and forfeited Dunn and LaVine. Butler is an excellent player just coming into his prime and seems like a great fit at Minnesota. They may regret this decision.

Maybe the reason is that Thibs is not keen on Rubio and intends to trade him instead, which would mean Dunn could slot in right from the start as the starting point guard. Unclear how good Dunn would be of course in his rookie year.

Then again on ESPN I just read that the Bulls were the ones who pulled back at the last, so who knows what's true.

Word is they didn't feel comfortable dealing Butler the day after they traded Rose.

That said I'm happy we didn't deal Dunn and especially LaVine. I like our young core and want it to grow under Thibs and not traded away to win now. We're not ready, and when we are Butler would be at the end of his prime. He also has injury issues which make me nervous under Thibs. If he is dead set on getting one of his old players to set the locker room tone he should try to get Noah during free agency. 

[James Arryn]

4 minutes ago, Relic said:

agreed on all accounts. really like this trade for OKC.

As for people talking about the Harden trade...yeah they could have gotten some more value for him, but otherwise he HAD to go. No way can harden westbrook and durant coexist on the same team. 

Why not? Sure seemed to be working for them at the time. I think you can't put that genie back in the bottle post-Harden explosion, but I don't see why you couldn't have kept it there in the first place.

[DunderMifflin]

Really debunks the phrase "hindsight is 20/20"

[briantw]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

But did the Cavs really need Love to win the East?  The gap between Cleveland and everyone else is just huge, way more than just what Love offers.  If we swap out Wiggins for Love, how many more games would it have taken to win the East?  Maybe one?  I mean, having another versatile defender like Wiggins would have helped against Atlanta and Toronto too. 

Except Wiggins is not a versatile defender.  He's one of the worst defenders in the league right now.  Love, for all the flak he takes, is about league average on man to man defense.

Wiggins will probably become a solid defender a few years from now, but he's nowhere near there yet.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Why not? Sure seemed to be working for them at the time. I think you can't put that genie back in the bottle post-Harden explosion, but I don't see why you couldn't have kept it there in the first place.

It all depends on if he would have developed a different playing style. Because what he is now would not be a good fit. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don't think Serge was part of their core nucleus anymore though. Their core 3 now is KD, Russ and The Pirate King. If they can find a good 3 and D wing or a stretch 4 in free agency they should be in great shape. 

I don't know, he still seemed to be a huge piece. As both Jaime L and Calibander mentioned, he was huge on defense. I really felt like he and Adams were at the core of holding the Warriors down defensively, and that was why they pushed them so hard.