Anyone else think Roose sent Ramsay out to die?

[PCK]

Roose knows Ramsay is a lunatic and that he will kill any legitimate sons of his. What he told Theon might have been theater, to lure Ramsay into a false sense of security. As Stannis noted to Theon, the Boltons just need to sit in the castle and starve him out. However, Roose sends Ramsay, the Freys, and the Manderlys out to greet Stannis. Perhaps he survives and this is the reason he kills his father? 

[dinner]

Possibly but not going out to meet him looks weak and that cpuld cause other northern houses to rally to him. 

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

I agree, but I think, as it's often the case with the best laid plans of men and slightly vampiric leech-enthusiasts, things won't go quite so smoothly for Lord Bolton. I think Roose will die inside Winterfell when he thinks he's safe, murdered by Dustin or Manderly men, while Ramsay will survive outside the walls. 

[Lion of the West]

2 hours ago, PCK said:

Roose knows Ramsay is a lunatic and that he will kill any legitimate sons of his. What he told Theon might have been theater, to lure Ramsay into a false sense of security. As Stannis noted to Theon, the Boltons just need to sit in the castle and starve him out. However, Roose sends Ramsay, the Freys, and the Manderlys out to greet Stannis. Perhaps he survives and this is the reason he kills his father? 

It makes pretty good sense. Also note that the ones Roose sends out, the Freys, Manderlys and Ramsay are either the most unreliable or the ones who are most likely to provoke Northern bannermen of Roose to infighting. So getting rid of these might well allow Roose for more stability inside Winterfell.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Here are some possibilities I consider: Roose is probably aware that the Manderly's,  aren't his friends,  he might even have picked up on the Frey Pie hints. He could have instructed Ramsay and the Freys to kill the Manderlys, and blame it on Stannis. 

He might also have sent them out hoping that one group will kill the other,  without caring who comes back,  or whether they all will be killed. 

I'm quite sure he doesn't send them out to defeat Stannis ; I'm sure that'll only be a bonus to him. 

[Lord Vance II]

1 hour ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

Roose is probably aware that the Manderly's,  aren't his friends,  he might even have picked up on the Frey Pie hints. He could have instructed Ramsay and the Freys to kill the Manderlys, and blame it on Stannis. 

Lord I hope not. Team Manderly all the way. Go Mermen. 

1 hour ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

He might also have sent them out hoping that one group will kill the other,  without caring who comes back,  or whether they all will be killed. 

I think this is totally it. If Ramsey wins, his army wins. If Ramsey dies, oh well, he needs to be gotten rid of at some point. Either way he's still in Winterfell with a fairly strong army with at least one load off his shoulders. 

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

6 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

Lord I hope not. Team Manderly all the way. Go Mermen. 

I think this is totally it. If Ramsey wins, his army wins. If Ramsey dies, oh well, he needs to be gotten rid of at some point. Either way he's still in Winterfell with a fairly strong army with at least one load off his shoulders. 

Lol, I'm all for the Mermen as well. Luckily,  just because it could be Roose's plan, it doesn't have to work. The Manderlys aren't stupid.

Anyway I think both possibilities are equally likely,  and I'm excited to find out what will happen! 

I agree that Roose couldn't care less if Ramsay dies. 

[CJ McLannister]

Does he send him out with the Freys or separately?  The whole thing at Winterfell is a mess.  Roose has to see Ramsay as a liability, but he also has anxiety about leaving a child heir.  If he wants House Bolton to remain in power in the north, he kind of needs Ramsay.  I feel like Roose knows more about the loyalty of his lords than he lets on, but he's not in a great position.  He's lucky that Stannis is in a worse position.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

18 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

Does he send him out with the Freys or separately?  The whole thing at Winterfell is a mess.  Roose has to see Ramsay as a liability, but he also has anxiety about leaving a child heir.  If he wants House Bolton to remain in power in the north, he kind of needs Ramsay.  I feel like Roose knows more about the loyalty of his lords than he lets on, but he's not in a great position.  He's lucky that Stannis is in a worse position.

I don't remember.

Yeah I'm quite sure he's figured out about the Frey pies. He's an extremely intelligent commander,  and it wasn't that hard to figure out. He must know Manderly is dangerous. 

This is exactly why I think he ordered Ramsay to kill those Manderlys. I also think he wouldn't mind if Ramsay got killed in the process. He's anxious about leaving a child heir,  but I can't imagine he's not anxious about having ramsay as his heir. Not to mention that ramsay is perfectly capable of killing his own father when it suits him. 

[The Drunkard]

Roose didn't actually order Ramsay out. He commanded the Freys and Manderlys to leave and later, when Theon and Stannis are talking, Theon guesses that Ramsay will be coming to get him and Jeyne back.

[dariopatke]

Roose is smart and wants to have Ramsay being secure as an heir and not be provoked to kill Roose (this is what show badly failed to do). He doesnt care about Ramsay but knows his family name has to go on, he also knows that Ramsay will be last Bolton because entire North would eventually go to war with him and giving his personality maybe even 7K (this is if he assume Others are not coming which Roose clearly doesnt think).

This is a perfect idea, ifhe wins, well good. If he dies it is good, too. He got rid of Freys, Manderlys and a man who is bigger threat to him than Stannis (Ramsay).

This all seems like Roose.

[Clegane'sPup]

I’m not sure that there was any mention of Roose sending Ramsey out of WF.

Theon (*) tells Stannis Ramsey is coming but Theon wasn’t in a position to know that because after the trouble in the hall one of the washer women grabs Theon and the rescue of Jeyne starts taking place.

Roose sending the Frey’s and Manderly’s men out two different exits did strike me odd. Sending those two groups out does lessen some of the pressure building up in WF.

I agree with what someone mentioned up above. Roose probably doesn’t care what happens. If the Frey’s & Manderly’s defeat Stannis it’s a win. If the Frey’s & Manderly’s attack each other it’s a win.

(*) I think Theon thinks Ramsey is coming because of Ramsey’s past behavior of running escapee’s down.

[CJ McLannister]

OK.  So we don't know if Ramsay has left Winterfell yet, but Theon assumes he will, and it would benefit Roose to get him out of Winterfell for awhile.  The Freys and Manderlys were both sent out to go against the Umbers, but they don't know that Stannis isn't there yet (although the Manderlys might know something).

This all gets complicated by the Pink letter. 

[John Doe]

Roose doesn't care either way. Either he smashes Stannis and wins a victory for his father, or he dies still weakening Stannis and getting unpopular and unreliable troops killed in the process while Bolton still sits safely in his castle. On paper it's a good plan. But he probably didn't take Stannis plan, Jon telling Stannis about Karstarks treason, and the likely Manderly crossover into consideration, which will backfire.

 

[Light a wight tonight]

I think it's doubtful because Roose has said that a child lord can be a disaster to his House. And Fat Walda hasn't even produced a male heir yet. Ramsay's basically all Roose has as an heir at the moment.

 

[BalerionTheCat]

It could be an echo of Tywin and Tyrion. The father wishes to kill the son. But he is afraid of kin slaying. So he sends him in a mission where he could die, but not by the father's hand. IMO, Roose would not do it for Walda's children. But because Ramsey is really endangering the future of House Bolton by his open cruelty. No one like Theon, but what he did would frighten and disgust anyone. We see it in lady Dustin.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

44 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

I think it's doubtful because Roose has said that a child lord can be a disaster to his House. And Fat Walda hasn't even produced a male heir yet. Ramsay's basically all Roose has as an heir at the moment.

 

You are right,  but Ramsay would be a disaster for his house as well. In fact he already is. Roose must see that, which is why I think he would at least not really mind if Ramsay would die.

There is one problem though. Ramsay's marriage to fArya is their claim to WF. If fArya is gone,  and Ramsay dies there isn't much of a claim left. 

There's also nothing in WF at the moment to keep his bannermen loyal. 

[The Wolves]

2 minutes ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

You are right,  but Ramsay would be a disaster for his house as well. In fact he already is. Roose must see that, which is why I think he would at least not really mind if Ramsay would die.

There is one problem though. Ramsay's marriage to fArya is their claim to WF. If fArya is gone,  and Ramsay dies there isn't much of a claim left. 

There's also nothing in WF at the moment to keep his bannermen loyal. 

Roose is stupid I don't get how people can call him smart. Dumbass has surrounded himself with enemies in and outside Winterfell. 

Him, his men, allies and Freys are not the majority in the North they're the minority and people are out for them yet he surrounds himself with thousands of angry northernmen. Stupid. 

[Clegane'sPup]

2 hours ago, CJ McLannister said:

The Freys and Manderlys were both sent out to go against the Umbers

Nope.

Umm. I kinda have to disagree. Frey’s and Manderly’s were not sent out to deal with Umber’s.

It is clearly stated when  Roose receives a message via wet crow/raven that Stannis is 3 days from WF.

[sweetsunray]

6 hours ago, The Drunkard said:

Roose didn't actually order Ramsay out. He commanded the Freys and Manderlys to leave and later, when Theon and Stannis are talking, Theon guesses that Ramsay will be coming to get him and Jeyne back.

^this. It's not confirmed that Ramsay left WF. Manderlys and Freys left, each from a separate gate. This was around the same time that washerwomen were caught at the periphets helping escape Theon and Jeyne, and Mance and the other washerwomen made for a different unknown escape plan. I think Ramsay and dogs are a bit too busy at the moment to ride out to confront Stannis.

But I do comletely agree with the idea that Roose "pretended" as if he did not care whether Ramsay would kill any child of his with Walda. The best way to protect what you value around a psychopath is by showing complete disinterest in it, act bored, etc. In the community of survivors it's called "grey rocking", aka be boring, apathic and disinterested. Grey rocks are everywhere. Nothing special about them. Boring. Psychopaths dislike boring, love drama-rama. So, imo Roose is grey-rocking it. And he's just using Ramsay, until he can send him to his doom.