The whole "teleportation" thing

[Ser Gareth]

6 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Lets stop with the Teleportation thing, its such a dumb argument, like some people seem to think they are watching the show in real time or something.

Indeed.  It's also clear that, like chapters in the book, the scenes aren't always in chronological order.  Different regions are spread out in an episode or over two or three episodes for pacing purposes.

E.g. it could well be that Varys in Dorne happened exactly the same time that Dany arrived back at Meereen.  Dany wins back Meereen.  3+ months later sails to Westeros etc.

[lancerman]

That logic works when it's a linear plot progression where ever scene in some way shape or form is informed by the previous scene. But this has always been a show with separate concurrent storylines. For instance nothing about Arya's plot needs to be happening at the same time as where everyone else's plot was at the same time that season. The only instance where timing matters is that she needs to be at the Twins to kill Walder Frey. Everything that happened before, could have happened literally between the first and second episode. In fact it's most likely that she was back in Westeros by the point of the Siege at Rivverun.

Like it's clear that Jamie got to KL shortly after the wildfire explosion. Meaning that initial scene in the twins was weeks before that went down. Meaning that Cersie's plot from the time Jamie left was happening significantly later. Meaning that Arya was in the Twins for several weeks as well. Meaning her storyline in Braavos wrapped up earlier than most everyone else.

Also it's clear quite a bit of time passed over the course of the episode. Jamie getting to KL. All of the Northern Lords arriving to Winterfell. Olenna getting to Dorne after her House was wiped out.

You're seeing snap shots of important events and they are arranged in a way that the timing only matters when it is necessary to inform another event.

.

[The Fattest Leech]

So what happens when people from differently timed plots meet up? Is a westerosi wormhole opened? Seriously.

I can totally accept small time jumps and people being off screen, or an episode, for the sake of travel, but when we see Kings Landing burning at the start of the episode, Jaime up in the riverlands at the Twins in the middle, and then Jaime back in KL and it is still burning as Cersei sits her butt on the throne at the end, that is when it gets confusing. When two irregular timelines suddenly meet up and it's supposed to be seamless, but isn't.

 

[Makk]

Varys definitely meets them in Dorne after the events from Kings landing earlier in the episode. How long does it take to sail from Dorne to Mereen and some of the way back? I guess you could say they met each other at sea. Regardless it felt like a needlessly jarring scene.

[Golden Eyes]

This shit gets confusing as heck, but I just have to shut down and burn a little to enjoy it and that is what I do. Why cant others?

[lancerman]

57 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

So what happens when people from differently timed plots meet up? Is a westerosi wormhole opened? Seriously.

I can totally accept small time jumps and people being off screen, or an episode, for the sake of travel, but when we see Kings Landing burning at the start of the episode, Jaime up in the riverlands at the Twins in the middle, and then Jaime back in KL and it is still burning as Cersei sits her butt on the throne at the end, that is when it gets confusing. When two irregular timelines suddenly meet up and it's supposed to be seamless, but isn't.

 

If one event happens and it is directly informed by the other event, and they are happening at different times and it creates a plot hole, then it matters. All Jamie's scene means is that all his events happened well before the Sept of Balor was burnt.

[JonSnow4President]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

So what happens when people from differently timed plots meet up? Is a westerosi wormhole opened? Seriously.

I can totally accept small time jumps and people being off screen, or an episode, for the sake of travel, but when we see Kings Landing burning at the start of the episode, Jaime up in the riverlands at the Twins in the middle, and then Jaime back in KL and it is still burning as Cersei sits her butt on the throne at the end, that is when it gets confusing. When two irregular timelines suddenly meet up and it's supposed to be seamless, but isn't.

 

To be fair, how long did the fires at the WTC take to burn out?  Wasn't it something like 3 months with modern equipment and technology around?  That amount of devastation doesn't just stop quickly.  The Wildfire would be spent by that point, but there should be regular fires around still.

[Rubicante]

22 minutes ago, Makk said:

Varys definitely meets them in Dorne after the events from Kings landing earlier in the episode. How long does it take to sail from Dorne to Mereen and some of the way back? I guess you could say they met each other at sea. Regardless it felt like a needlessly jarring scene.

Although I found it distracting and laughable that Varys could travel this much in one episode, my bigger question is "Why would Dany ever trust a man who she knows for a fact arranged to have her poisoned and killed".  I guarantee you this will never be addressed on the show.

[JonSnow4President]

14 minutes ago, Golden Eyes said:

This shit gets confusing as heck, but I just have to shut down and burn a little to enjoy it and that is what I do. Why cant others?

Because some people (myself included) think writing should be intelligent enough that you don't have to shut down your brain to enjoy it.  It's a minor annoyance for teleportation.  It's a major problem for things like Arya Frey Pies, succession issues, etc.

[Nordahl iceskin]

Who's to say Cercei was crowned the day after Tommen killed himself? maybe the Sept had been burning for days or weeks. How did all the northern lords get to Winterfell so fast. How did arya get to the riverlands. How did Vary's get to meereen and back. How did bran go from the tree all the way to the wall in a few episodes when it took him damn near a season and a half to get to the tree in the first place. How did Sam get to Oldtown in a few episodes Did they all teleport?

No, lots of time passed. For all we know Vary's met Dany in Dorne and they are already heading to KL. It was the last scene of the seasons it could take place 4 months after the scene preceding it as far as I'm concerned.

[The Fattest Leech]

10 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

To be fair, how long did the fires at the WTC take to burn out?  Wasn't it something like 3 months with modern equipment and technology around?  That amount of devastation doesn't just stop quickly.  The Wildfire would be spent by that point, but there should be regular fires around still.

But what are the rules to when we are supposed to apply real-world logic, such as your WTC point (which I think was atleast 3 months), and to suspend disbelief and then wrangle it all back in again as the plot demands?

I would like to enjoy the show without having to stop every new scene and get pulled out because something is way off at first glance.

That said, I'm tired and going to bed so talk amongst yourselves.

[JonSnow4President]

5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

But what are the rules to when we are supposed to apply real-world logic, such as your WTC point (which I think was atleast 3 months), and to suspend disbelief and then wrangle it all back in again as the plot demands?

I would like to enjoy the show without having to stop every new scene and get pulled out because something is way off at first glance.

That said, I'm tired and going to bed so talk amongst yourselves.

That's a fair point.  IMO, there are honeypots, and then there are HONEYPOTS.  A little bit of "well, I guess based on a historical event that should still be in flame is a far cry from something along the lines of Arya isn't really Arya (episode 7).

Sleep well Leech!

[DMC]

Sorry, I haven't read most of this thread, but I tend to be forgiving on the teleport thing - in general it's understandable to maintain momentum. 

However, Varys next to Dany in the final shot is an issue of a different stripe.  Last night, I had to come on here and then check back on HBO Go to realize there were Martell (which are clear in one shot) and Tyrell (which are less clear in the final shot) sails during, once again, Dany's triumphant finale.

Now, ok, I guess that's fine.  It's taking "show not tell" to a whole other level since basically no one I talked to gathered that was the case.  But, when watching the After-the-Episode crap, which D&D should frankly stop doing because it always reveals how distant they are from understanding what's going on in their own fucking show, Weiss explicitly says the scene is Dany taking off with her newfound allies - from Slaver's Bay. 

Now, I'm completely willing to accept that was a shot of the combined Dany army joined by Martell/Tyrell ships - maybe even closing in on a target in Westeros which we'll see at the beginning of next season!  Except, Weiss' comments would suggest that the latter two sailed to Slaver's Bay, only to sail right back to Westeros.  Such stupidity transcends expediency or any other excuse.

[Khorkalba]

The issue is with pacing. 

I don't think anyone actually believes that characters are teleporting. The show clearly isn't in real time. Weeks (or even months) may have passed between a particular character's scenes. The teleportation thing is just a way for fans to mock how rushed some of the character storylines are. This criticism is particularly deserved when the writers are happy to waste screen time with their sex quota or with pointless fan fiction scenes that aren't in the books.

[The Golden Wolf]

But can we not use key events being discussed and witnessed, pregnancies and births, to figure out the timeline roughly? 

For me the biggest problem has always been distances being traveled and the writer's not adhering to basics of geography of Westeros. There is no way around moat Cailin without the Crannogmen to help yet brienne and pod find a way. Two southerners found a way around moat cailin. 

[cleffa]

Well not only traveling time, but in season 6 we witness wounds being healed super fast from Arya that makes me wonder if time has gone by months or maybe even a year or so between the Arya scenes in Braavos in S6 and the Arya killing Walder Frey scene in S06E10.

Maybe the Arya scenes from S06E01 up till S06E08 happened months or even a year or two before battle of the bastards and Cersei becoming Queen.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

10 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Indeed.  It's also clear that, like chapters in the book, the scenes aren't always in chronological order.  Different regions are spread out in an episode or over two or three episodes for pacing purposes.

E.g. it could well be that Varys in Dorne happened exactly the same time that Dany arrived back at Meereen.  Dany wins back Meereen.  3+ months later sails to Westeros etc.

yup,i'm especially surprised that book readers are making this complaint

Quote

Excerpt from 'A Storm of Swords':

"A Song of Ice and Fire is told through the eyes of characters who are sometimes hundreds or even thousands of miles apart from one another. Some chapters cover a day, some only an hour; others might span a fortnight, a month, half a year. With such a structure, the narrative cannot be strictly sequential; sometimes important things are happening simultaneously, a thousand leagues apart."

Same thing applies to the show.

[Rhaegun]

Meanwhile, in book Westeros, five years takes twenty years to depict.  We can expect that the actual departure from Mereen will be depicted with a few chapters about the Sailpainters Guild and their colors and how they got started by running away from the barn painters guild. Not to mention a few chapters about some character getting sick over the side of a boat.

Would anyone feel better if they superimposed, "Meanwhile, six months later" a la comic book movies?

[AncalagonTheBlack]

8 minutes ago, Rhaegun said:

 We can expect that the actual departure from Mereen will be depicted with a few chapters about the Sailpainters Guild and their colors and how they got started by running away from the barn painters guild. Not to mention a few chapters about some character getting sick over the side of a boat.

[TwiceBorn]

Varys is so much better sailor than Euron Greyjoy!