SerPaladin Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 15 hours ago, butterbumps! said: It sounds like you lean right mainly on fiscal/ governance issues, aren't particularly socially conservative, and that you're not terribly unhappy with the status quo, only that you wish it might veer further right sooner than later. Veer is a good word. I used to use "nudge" a lot. It's a pretty good country, and has been since 1982 or so. There's a lot of fine tuning that always needs to be done. After suffrage in the early part of last century, and civil rights in the 60s and 70s, and gay marriage from the 90s to now, we are now arguing over transgender bathrooms. A worthy cause, but certainly in the "nudge" column when compared to the other scopes (50% and 20% and 10% of the population) and the other rights (voting, marriage, etc.). Fight on, by all means. I'm for legalized marijuana, even though I've never partaken, and that is steadily veering, nationwide. Taxes, I think the overall rates are fine, but close the loopholes that have been handed out to special interests at the top end, the argument there is not about loopholes or no loopholes, but rather which things each party wants to incentivize. That produces a world where the rich, and the accountants and lawyers they can afford, are the only winners. Trump's real estate dodge is a perfect example. Foreign Policy? When the big discussions are over trade deals and ISIS, it's hard to say that is anything more than marginal when weighed against nuclear war and communism and Vietnam and the preceding chaos of the early 20th century. No one ever went the the top of the barricades to nudge or to veer, I'm ultimately not very exciting. It's more engaging to be a revolutionary, to be a Bernie Bro or a Trumpster or the Joker wanting to watch it all burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, aceluby said: Kaine would just shut the fuck up every once in a while. Let Pence lie, and then call him out on your rebuttal. Okay. Now who let Trump coach Kaine for the debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Pence won on style, Kaine won on substance. I'd call last night a push, but Kaine got the soundbites he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 They were both insufferable. Pence was less insufferable, but also less truthful (though Kaine also had an uneasy relationship with the truth). I know conventional wisdom is that the VP pick doesn't matter, but I do think Pence's performance helped Trump. There are people who will delude themselves into thinking that he (not Trump) is going to be running things, and that he is a reasonable human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Pence won on style, Kaine won on substance. I'd call last night a push, but Kaine got the soundbites he wanted. I would say that the media narrative this morning is that Pence won, although not in any decisive or particularly noteworthy way. However, the big impact is that it ends the week and a half of complete freefall that the Trump campaign has been in. The question is whether Trump can put in a better showing at the next debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Pence is benefitting from extremely low expectations if people are saying he "won" anything. Kaine is clearly bright, and right about most things he was saying. Unfortunately he is just as clearly annoying. I...really don't see what he adds to the ticket, other than just not overshadowing Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerPaladin Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Weeping Sore said: Pence is benefitting from extremely low expectations if people are saying he "won" anything. Kaine is clearly bright, and right about most things he was saying. Unfortunately he is just as clearly annoying. I...really don't see what he adds to the ticket, other than just not overshadowing Hill. No skeletons, no surprises. With so much drama at the top of each ticket, they just wanted a guy with a clean record and no affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, SerPaladin said: No skeletons, no surprises. With so much drama at the top of each ticket, they just wanted a guy with a clean record and no affairs. Right. He's a bunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 19 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I would say that the media narrative this morning is that Pence won, although not in any decisive or particularly noteworthy way. However, the big impact is that it ends the week and a half of complete freefall that the Trump campaign has been in. The question is whether Trump can put in a better showing at the next debate. I agree that the media narrative is that Pence won, but I feel like it's a classic example of tie goes to the Republican. I don't think last night will impact the race, and it will be largely forgotten after the next debate. You're right that last night helped to end Trump's bad week and a half, but we'll have to wait and seen how he responses to last night and the early reports are the he is not happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I'm curious about Kaine's prep for the debate. I've never seen his other debates so for all I know the interrupting could just be his style. If not, I wonder if it was intentional just to goad Pence into make some really terrible and cringe worthy statements. I'm irritated that LGBTQ issues haven't been topics in either debate. Anti-LGBT legislation continues to be a pretty significant part of the Republican platform and children being allowed to pee in schools is still being argued in the courts. Why the fuck aren't the mods asking questions about LGBT policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: I'm curious about Kaine's prep for the debate. I've never seen his other debates so for all I know the interrupting could just be his style. If not, I wonder if it was intentional just to goad Pence into make some really terrible and cringe worthy statements. I'm irritated that LGBTQ issues haven't been topics in either debate. Anti-LGBT legislation continues to be a pretty significant part of the Republican platform and children being allowed to pee in schools is still being argued in the courts. Why the fuck aren't the mods asking questions about LGBT policies? I think your suspicion that the goal with Kaine was primarily to goad Pence into embarrassing statements is probably correct--it's good fodder. https://t.co/9zBdix3xR9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 43 minutes ago, butterbumps! said: I think your suspicion that the goal with Kaine was primarily to goad Pence into embarrassing statements is probably correct--it's good fodder. https://t.co/9zBdix3xR9 Wow... I mean it writes itself, but damn was that fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 13 hours ago, SkynJay said: Both sides are interrupting, changing to the topic they want to talk about rather than the topic at hand, and generally annoying the hell out of me. I miss Uncle Joe already. Uncle Joe could whip both of them gagged and blindfolded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 So Gary Johnson has apparently stated that he guesses he wasn't meant to be president - and now his running mate has basically given up and is focused on stopping trump entirely. When a third party says yep, don't vote third party, that's kind of special. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/libertarian-vp-candidate-just-wants-to-stop-trump-presidency.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, Kalbear said: So Gary Johnson has apparently stated that he guesses he wasn't meant to be president - and now his running mate has basically given up and is focused on stopping trump entirely. When a third party says yep, don't vote third party, that's kind of special. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/libertarian-vp-candidate-just-wants-to-stop-trump-presidency.html I like that it shows the essential decency of Bill Weld, but it just makes me wonder again, why the fuck did he sign on with Gary Johnson in the first place? I like quixotic gestures, but Johnson seems to be sitting on his horse backwards as he charges the windmill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, aceluby said: Wow... I mean it writes itself, but damn was that fast. Yes indeed, but then perhaps someone in the Clinton camp predicted that, when confronted with Trump's Greatest Hits, Pence would have little choice but to ignore or outright lie. So maybe Kaine's performance was calculated not to get under Pence's skin but simply to get him on record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 47 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: Yes indeed, but then perhaps someone in the Clinton camp predicted that, when confronted with Trump's Greatest Hits, Pence would have little choice but to ignore or outright lie. So maybe Kaine's performance was calculated not to get under Pence's skin but simply to get him on record. Yup. His whole goal was to force Pence to deal with Trump, one way or the other. Cause the more this is about Trump, the more Trump loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, TrackerNeil said: Yes indeed, but then perhaps someone in the Clinton camp predicted that, when confronted with Trump's Greatest Hits, Pence would have little choice but to ignore or outright lie. So maybe Kaine's performance was calculated not to get under Pence's skin but simply to get him on record. Seems like you nailed it on that one: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Clinton's camp is also much better at dealing with fresh and superfresh news and being able to do something on it. Having an app that would show you how much you would save if you were like trump one day after the 916m reveal is a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Obama Hammers Congress on SCOTUS Nomination Obstruction... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/republican-obstruction-is-undermining-the-supreme-court-enough-is-enough_us_57f3cb16e4b0d0e1a9a9cfce?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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