lokisnow Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: In this hypothetical, what happens to the Country Club Republicans? Funnily enough, when the locker room excuse i said to my wife "that's not locker room talk, that's country club talk" and she responded that both trump and bush are very much country club douches and that she agreed country club men types have some of the worst views on women because they feel entitled and have no fear of reprisal the way that many in trumps base would fear reprisal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, Martell Spy said: Support for diversity is a powerful glue that holds the Democratic party together. And this is likely only going to increase as the party becomes even more diverse. Recall it was Bernie Sanders supporters that were on the news all the time protesting Trump. I'm a leftist myself, and I just can't see them taking the 30 silver coins to go join nationalists in exchange for some economic policy. Depends a lot on how you frame it. Like I said, as long as you can convince some AA and latino groups to join you via economic plans, it's not that bad. You can appeal to them very directly, too, and be okay - similar to Trump - and say 'look, the Democratic party has often failed you. These elitists have failed you. They have produced policies left and right that have caused direct harm to your communities. We understand that you don't want a hand out, but you do want a hand UP. And we're going to give you that hand so that your communities can finally join the prosperity and happiness so long denied by the Wall Street manipulators which you so deserve. " And remember, a lot of AA communities are very against LGBT rights. A lot of latino communities are against LGBT rights and against abortion rights. You simply have to do better than what Sanders did, and that's not that high of a bar to reach. Just now, Martell Spy said: The Republican or nationalist party would have to make major reforms to get them and lose large amounts of voters in the process. All indications right now are that the Democratic party holds together, whatever form that takes. Again, depends a lot on the reforms. You could easily give benefits to everyone and win a whole lot of the poor population over, especially in going after the wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, lokisnow said: The electoral college forces a two party system in any coordinated national election. but more importantly, the electoral college, like the House of Representatives was a compromise created to protect and defend the institution of slavery. Virginia slave lords like Madison could use slave populations to artificially inflate their number of representatives in the house, and use the electoral college to also minimize the impact of the north having more property owning white male voters. It was a stellar construction to make sure the voting weight of every slave lord was worth far more than the combined weight of non slave lords. The electoral college, we keep it because of how much we love slavery or how much we hate talking about slavery. The states getting equal representation in the Senate, one vote per senator and the Electoral college were the compromises. The Virginia Plan called for the president to be elected by Congress. Imagine how much power the so called slave lords would have had if their slaves would have been counted as full people and Congress had the power to choose the executive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, lokisnow said: Funnily enough, when the locker room excuse i said to my wife "that's not locker room talk, that's country club talk" and she responded that both trump and bush are very much country club douches and that she agreed country club men types have some of the worst views on women because they feel entitled and have no fear of reprisal the way that many in trumps base would fear reprisal. This is also precisely what my wife said too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 38 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-trump-backers-tweet-repealthe19th-1476299001-htmlstory.html This is a joke, right? 28 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said: It's upsetting that this is a thing. But so are a lot of things about this campaign. It's sad that quite a few women said they'd give up their rights so he could win. They're probably all the same assholes whining about it being rigged yet are supporting voter supression. Seriously, every Trump supporters is an ignorant hypocrtical asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, lokisnow said: Funnily enough, when the locker room excuse i said to my wife "that's not locker room talk, that's country club talk" and she responded that both trump and bush are very much country club douches and that she agreed country club men types have some of the worst views on women because they feel entitled and have no fear of reprisal the way that many in trumps base would fear reprisal. Well, don't forget that most country clubs have locker rooms because of their golf courses and tennis courts. And I am sure such talk at country clubs is more likely to occur in the men's locker room than in any place where women would be more likely to overhear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 6 hours ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: Five Books to Change Liberals' Minds Quote “Seeing Like A State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Conditions Have Failed,” by James Scott. In this wildly imaginative book, dealing with agriculture, urban planning, and Esperanto, Scott argues that modern governments, relying on top-down knowledge, tend to be clueless, because they depend on “thin simplifications” of complex systems -- and hence lack an understanding of how human beings actually organize themselves. In what world is: always lower taxes*, smaller gov't is necessarily better**, and the free market neccessarily grows the economy and employment anything but the thinnest micoplating of simplifications over a complex system. * http://www.atr.org/about-the-pledge **https://www.gop.com/platform/ ***http://www.ontheissues.org/2012_RNC_Platform.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 6 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: If the Republican Party collapses are you postulating the US as a One party state with internal factions in the Democratic party being the only real opposition to the existing actions of Government? Will never happen. The entire legislative structure here is made for two parties. If the GOP splits into fractions of its whole and cannot compromise to form a coalition on issues, sure youd see some Dem policies creep through I'd they could secure both houses for more than a couple weeks. . But it would quickly check itself, the Dems are not a monolith. You're not going to even see a consensus among them what to do about the ACA. If they take the house and the Senate somehow, maybe you see a public option. You're not going to see single payer. It's the same reason that third parties are a flash in the pan on the national level. Without a base of support and endorsements from other ruling class types, it's against anyone's interest to vote third party for Pres unless you really couldn't live with either major party candidate. Because depending on where you live, you are likely to be just encouraging an outcome you wouldn't want. The thing is that say the Green Party put forth a decent candidate. They'd have my vote. But not against Trump. I would not gamble on having a party slightly more to my liking at the risk of giving Trump the White House. Now if the Greens built up a showing in state legislatures and a few governorships, sure might change things. Except you'd see them coalition building with the enemies of their enemies, and likely pushing the Dems left in exchange for support. Same thing with the Tea Party. The TPs pushed the Republicans hard right and stupid from the inside. We won't see a single party with 75% support, or a third party getting any kind of traction other than during some kind of transition or realignment. Eta:. And the thing about transitions or realignment is that they only have the third party around for the housecleaning. Then they get absorbed somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Quote We won't see a single party with 75% support, or a third party getting any kind of traction other than during some kind of transition or realignment. Unless...you change the system to support third party candidates more strongly, especially at the representative level. Which can both be done and be done at the state and local levels. There is nothing that dictates how each state must proportion their reps or what system they must use to elect them, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 The latest shoe appears to be dropping. The New York Times has interviews with two women who say Trump inappropriately touched them. Quote More than three decades ago, when she was a traveling businesswoman at a paper company, Ms. Leeds said, she sat beside Mr. Trump in the first-class cabin of a flight to New York. They had never met before. About 45 minutes after takeoff, she recalled, Mr. Trump lifted the armrest and began to touch her. According to Ms. Leeds, Mr. Trump grabbed her breasts and tried to put his hand up her skirt. Ms. Leeds has told the story to at least four people close to her, who also spoke with The New York Times. Mr. Trump’s claim that his crude words had never turned into actions was similarly infuriating to a woman watching on Sunday night in Ohio: Rachel Crooks. Ms. Crooks was a 22-year-old receptionist at Bayrock Group, a real estate investment and development company in Trump Tower in Manhattan, when she encountered Mr. Trump outside an elevator in the building one morning in 2005. Aware that her company did business with Mr. Trump, she turned and introduced herself. They shook hands, but Mr. Trump would not let go, she said. Instead, he began kissing her cheeks. Then, she said, he “kissed me directly on the mouth.” It didn’t feel like an accident, she said. It felt like a violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 5 hours ago, Kalbear said: Also, on that LA times poll, here's a great article about how one guy from Illinois is making the whole thing garbage: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/upshot/how-one-19-year-old-illinois-man-is-distorting-national-polling-averages.html?_r=0&referer=https://t.co/tqlbxkvXN8 I need to send this to Nate Silver so he can talk about it on "Good use of polling / Bad use of polling" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Unless...you change the system to support third party candidates more strongly, especially at the representative level. Which can both be done and be done at the state and local levels. There is nothing that dictates how each state must proportion their reps or what system they must use to elect them, after all. Sorry, I wasn't very clear. was referring to the idea of one party getting massive support while the other collapses, which is what I thought Scot was referring to. If the Repubs implode I can't see three quarters of the country just pulling the dem lever, or one Presidential election getting enough votes out to shift both houses and the WH. The GOP voters have to go somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Trump’s Hill surrogates: Stop attacking Ryan http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/hill-gop-surrogates-advise-trump-to-stop-ryan-attacks-229671 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Trump's strategy for the remainder of the campaign: Go nuclear on Clinton: http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-new-attack-strategy-keep-clinton-voters-home-1476221895 I am seeing this push across social media. They are cropping up and posting old Bernie memes, but then saying things like cuck, and SJW in the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Jaxom, Given the people supporting Trump I somehow doubt it. Scot, that there appears to be women. Willing to return to the 19th century for this boggles the mind more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Quote I am seeing this push across social media. They are cropping up and posting old Bernie memes, but then saying things like cuck, and SJW in the comments. We see this on this board sometimes. Every Trump supporter claims they would have voted Democratic if Bernie had been elected. Liar liar, pants on fire. These are the same people wanted Romney in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Two women have come out to the NY Times to report Trump sexually assaulted them. Trump's response on Tuesday night was to threaten the papers with lawsuits if they went through with the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Two women have come out to the NY Times to report Trump sexually assaulted them. Trump's response on Tuesday night was to threaten the papers with lawsuits if they went through with the story. This is now their response. They're such full of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Mexal said: This is now their response. They're such full of shit. Insane the cognitive dissonance, or intentional hypocrisy, less than a week after bringing up the exact same thing regarding Bill Clinton, from even longer ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 59 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Unless...you change the system to support third party candidates more strongly, especially at the representative level. Which can both be done and be done at the state and local levels. There is nothing that dictates how each state must proportion their reps or what system they must use to elect them, after all. As I said above I'd love to see proportional rep in the HoR and single member districts done away with. I've advocated that for 25 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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