Rogue One Spoilers Discussion: I Am With You, Jyn Erso

[generalzod]

7 minutes ago, ab aeterno said:

If it isn't a coincidence it's just stupid. "Director Critic? Director Cynic?" What the hell are they supposed to mean? Oh wow, the guy building a WMD for an oppressive regime is cynical, shocker. That cynicism really sets him apart from Tarkin.

Let's hope we can keep the self-descriptive names to the Sith. 

And for what it's worth, backwards it's Rotcerid Cinnerk. Ehmahgerd, Cinnerk! Ser Cinnerkal!"

It's a tongue in cheek pun... the evil bastard in the movie, the lowest form of life is a  rebus of "critic" or a " cynic" according to Gareth Edwards.

Yes,  according to you he should have literally named him "Director Critic" if that's what he was going for.

Star Wars NEVER plays on words right? Salacious Crumb, Han Solo, Greedo, Skywalker, Maul, Tyrannus, Vader, Sidious, Lobot, BB-8,  Lott Dodd (US senators), Saw Guerrera/Che Guevara, Droopy McCool, Porkins, etc. 

And Krennic sounds nothing like Critic right? 

[Nictarion]

57 minutes ago, ab aeterno said:

I think the lack of development is a fair criticism, but an amusing one from a Star Wars perspective.

I mean, it's totally not as though a character with about 2 minutes total screentime and four line of dialogue across two movies (okay, five lines if you count screaming,) is one of the most popular characters in the Star Wars franchise.  

Now I feel like a hypocrite. One of my only gripes was the characters outside of Jyn, and I've always loved Boba Fett.

I loved the movie though. That Vader scene at the end was worth the price of admission alone. I did miss John Williams on the score. I would put TFA ahead of RO as of now. I just didn't get attached to Jyn like I did with Rey.

[generalzod]

37 minutes ago, Fez said:

 

 

 

 

I think I'd place it fourth in my Star Wars rankings: ESB, ANH, TFA, RO, ROTJ, ROTS, TPM, TCW.

 

I would rank them:

Empire

Star Wars

Rogue One

Return of the Jedi

Force Awakens

Sith

attack of the clones

phantom menace

 

Edwards was definitely evoking D-Day world War 2 soldiers in landing craft storming Normandy in that final sequence Based on the look and the helmets...and oddly middle Eastern jihadists in Middle East garb literally planting explosives as freedom fighters before they're bombed out of existence from above.

 

Interesting Disney let him get away with those visual motifs and evocations.

 

Saw Guerrera was a bit meh.  He was more robot than man, which usually means evil in the Star Wars universe.  He and Bodhi were my least favorite characters but I really enjoyed the film overall.

 

 

[Nictarion]

Ranking these movies is really tough for me, but as of now I'd probably say:

TESB

ANH

RotJ

TFA

RO

RotS 

TPM

AotC

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

On 12/16/2016 at 4:53 AM, felice said:

I mostly thought it was great, but a bit disappointed at the way it set up the beginning of A New Hope. Leia's ship should have been on it's way to Tatooine to pick up Kenobi, and had the plans beamed to it from the battle. For Leia to be physically present and the plans handed over in person, and the Star Destroyer hot on her heels, just doesn't fit. There's no way they can claim to be a diplomatic mission that intercepted no transmissions when Vader chased them straight from the flagship of a Rebel fleet attacking an Imperial facility.

Murdering billions of civillians as a demonstration is a pretty big "outside". Nobody on the Imperial side seemed to have any objection to Tarkin's orders, and it's not like the Death Star was a little side project Tarkin had set up behind the Emperor's back.

I think that the mass murder just didn't feel real. It's like disaster movies when they mention that an asteroid hit Shanghai or in terrorist movies when they say that terrorists nuked Sarajevo. The audience sees it and hears it, but it doesn't really register in our hindbrain. It also doesn't help that Leis barely reacted to her father, mother, friends, and culture all getting murdered.

"Boots on the ground" fascism, to me, better conveys evil. A million deaths is a statistic and all that.

[Sivin]

3 hours ago, Wrl6199 said:

Yeah I mean i dont think that the film was horrible but I mean It certainly could have been a lot better. Like for one thing the actor playing Darth Vader.

Oh man! I was extremely put off by how squat and pudgy Vader looked in his Mustafar scene, and the voice really bothered me. When he made his choking pun I actually laughed in derision for a few moments, quite uncontrollably. I normally do not approve of such behavior in the theater, but there's really nothing I can say besides I felt appropriately bad for potentially disturbing the other viewers.

All that said, when he turned on that lightsaber in the hallway I was ready for shit to hit the fan, which it enjoyably did. That was the first time in the entirety of the film I felt appropriately engaged.

2 hours ago, mormont said:

That seems extremely unlikely, as by all indications the film is on course to be highly successful. It's a shame that it failed to appeal to you, but that doesn't make it a failure in any other sense.

Fair, as I mentioned in my second post, I had not caught up with the thread when I made that statement. I am glad that other people liked it, as I thought the concept was excellent.

2 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

I'll take that wager. When will you be posting the outcome? 

 

Wasn't a wager so much as an empty comment.

1 hour ago, generalzod said:

Wow.  You define hater and lose all credibility with your silly Star Wars toys backyard comment.

You didn't like the blind jedi?  Jyn Erso?  You are cold hearted or have no taste.

I'll call my shot now, Rogue One over time will not only be more beloved than the truly horrid prequels, it will be more beloved by fans than the Force Awakens.

its the closest thing we have to the Empire Strikes Back and that's lost on you.   Go make movies with your toys.

 

and Krennic/cynic/critic is not a coincidence. 

Rebus

a representation of words or syllables by pictures of objects or by symbols whose names resemble the intended words or syllables in sound.

 

his name is  a rebus of "Director Critic"

 

and backwards it's essentially Director Cynic

 

just a coincidence I'm sure 

 

 

I'm not even going to get in to the insanity that is the second half of this, but now that I have read the rest of the thread I can say that Rockroi caught most of my feelings in his review, but I was much more put off by the problems than he was. I hated the pace and the way the film was edited almost from the first frame, and it completely broke my immersion. I was sitting in my seat, waiting for the film to grab me, but I was completely disengaged from anything that was happening.

I felt like there was a solid 90 seconds of material missing from the first 10 minutes of the movie, what with the abandoning of the house and the abandoning of the daughter to the daughter returning to the bushes to the mom returning to the scene to the mom dying to the daughter running through the hills again... I was immediately reminded that I was watching a movie because of the shoddy editing, and with all of the cuts happening in rapid succession (throughout the entire first part of the movie) I could not settle in. We saw the terrible Forest Whittaker rescue the little girl and then she wakes up in a prison and/ Poe Dameron is gonna murder this panicky informer/ we're riding in a mushroom crawler/we're rescued/ we're at Yavin.

That's all fine, and I get the urgency to put this exposition in a prequel behind us quickly, but for the love of the force give me a minute, just a minute(!) to take in the scene and let the characters breathe. I gathered that everyone else wasn't particularly bothered by this or were able to get over it, but these things stick out to me and completely ruined the rest of what I thought was an absolutely gorgeous film.

Now to be fair I was in a really sub-par theater and had a bit of weirdness going on immediately preceding the showing so I may enjoy it on a re-watch, but these are my initial findings. And if you feel personally offended that I did not like a movie that you liked, I'm sorry that you feel like that... Not everybody likes everything, that does not make me a 'hater' or internet troll.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

20 minutes ago, Sivin said:

Now to be fair I was in a really sub-par theater and had a bit of weirdness going on immediately preceding the showing so I may enjoy it on a re-watch

That can actually make a big difference. My first watch was in a top-notch, state of the art theater. 2nd was in a craphole west Tennessee garbage dump with shitty lighting and sound (and kids hacking on popcorn behind me). If my first viewing had the same setting as my second I surely wouldn't have enjoyed it as much.  

Okay, now for rankings. I'll give it a shot. Note that I don't hate any of these movies. 

TESB

ANH

RO

TFA

ROTS

ROTJ

AOTC

TPM

[mormont]

6 hours ago, generalzod said:

and Krennic/cynic/critic is not a coincidence. 

Agreed, but not in the way you think. For it to be a coincidence, something would have to coincide. A single syllable doesn't make an allusion.

[DaveSumm]

6 hours ago, Sivin said:

Oh man! I was extremely put off by how squat and pudgy Vader looked in his Mustafar scene, and the voice really bothered me.

Eh? How did he look squat and pudgy? He was a dude in a Vader suit. And I'll grant it was detectable that James Earl Jones has aged since ANH the bastard but it wasn't really distracting, and I don't have any better suggestions for what they should have done.

I will be forever annoyed that Vader looks acts and sounds nothing like Hayden Christensen or Sebastian Shaw but that's on Lucas, not this film.

[Relic]

26 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Eh? How did he look squat and pudgy? He was a dude in a Vader suit.

I don't know, i felt the same way about Vader's first appearance. The suit looked cheap (which it was in order to match with his suit in ANH), and Vader was generally corny AS FUCK. "Don't choke on your aspirations" made me laugh out loud in the theater. All was forgiven after his second appearance, however.  

[Relic]

10 hours ago, Sivin said:

During Rogue One I was constantly thinking that I could make a more compelling film in my back yard with my phone camera and $100 dollars worth of star wars toys from target. 

You might be suffering from grand delusions. =P 

 

8 hours ago, generalzod said:

 

You didn't like the blind jedi?  Jyn Erso?  You are cold hearted or have no taste.

Hey man, if you want to indulge your fanboi rage (omg how dare someone not agree with my precious opinions regarding a silly movie!) you should go back to the IGN comment section where you came from. 

[ab aeterno]

5 minutes ago, Relic said:

Hey man, if you want to indulge your fanboi rage (omg how dare someone not agree with my precious opinions regarding a silly movie!) you should go back to the IGN comment section where you came from. 

Ouch, burn. IGN might genuinely have the worst comment section of any mainstream sight.  

[Howdyphillip]

9 hours ago, generalzod said:

Wow.  You define hater and lose all credibility with your silly Star Wars toys backyard comment.

You didn't like the blind jedi?  Jyn Erso?  You are cold hearted or have no taste.

I'll call my shot now, Rogue One over time will not only be more beloved than the truly horrid prequels, it will be more beloved by fans than the Force Awakens.

its the closest thing we have to the Empire Strikes Back and that's lost on you.   Go make movies with your toys.

 

 

 

 

You do realize that you can have a disagreement with someone online and not be an absolute dick about it don't you?

 I fucking loved the prequels. I know it isn't "popular" to have that opinion, but I certainly have it. Furthermore, I have every right to have that opinion, and someone acting like an asshole on the web isn't going to prevent that. 

 Talk about why you liked this movie, talk about why things didn't work for you in others, but leave the insulting tone out of it and discuss the movie itself. Pretty fucking please with sugar on it...

[Sivin]

7 hours ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

That can actually make a big difference. My first watch was in a top-notch, state of the art theater. 2nd was in a craphole west Tennessee garbage dump with shitty lighting and sound (and kids hacking on popcorn behind me). If my first viewing had the same setting as my second I surely wouldn't have enjoyed it as much.  

Yeah, I have had that possibility on my radar since storming out, and to the people who have personally asked me what I thought I have made it clear that something was wrong for me but the film seems popular overall.

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Eh? How did he look squat and pudgy? He was a dude in a Vader suit. And I'll grant it was detectable that James Earl Jones has aged since ANH the bastard but it wasn't really distracting, and I don't have any better suggestions for what they should have done.

I will be forever annoyed that Vader looks acts and sounds nothing like Hayden Christensen or Sebastian Shaw but that's on Lucas, not this film.

 

1 hour ago, Relic said:

I don't know, i felt the same way about Vader's first appearance. The suit looked cheap (which it was in order to match with his suit in ANH), and Vader was generally corny AS FUCK. "Don't choke on your aspirations" made me laugh out loud in the theater. All was forgiven after his second appearance, however.  

He just felt... thick. In that first appearance, and by the time I saw that I was extremely frustrated with the movie.

The second one? Good god, it was all of the silly lightsabering the prequels wanted but actually cool.

1 hour ago, Relic said:

You might be suffering from grand delusions. =P 

I hope so, I'll go see it again I have no doubt. Maybe next time in a theater that isn't garbage, but I cannot impress enough that when I made that comment I had just finished easily the worst theater experience I've ever had. I felt completely detached from anything that was happening on that screen for most of the film.

[ab aeterno]

16 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

You do realize that you can have a disagreement with someone online and not be an absolute dick about it don't you?
 

Oh come on, now you're just being absurd. 

[Howdyphillip]

10 minutes ago, ab aeterno said:

Oh come on, now you're just being absurd. 

"You define hater and lose all credibility with your silly Star Wars toys backyard comment."

" You are cold hearted or have no taste. "

" Go make movies with your toys. "


This is what is absurd... You can easily have an opinion, and not ridicule someone. That is a dick move in my book.

[ab aeterno]

Just now, Howdyphillip said:

"You define hater and lose all credibility with your silly Star Wars toys backyard comment."

" You are cold hearted or have no taste. "

" Go make movies with your toys. "


This is what is absurd... You can easily have an opinion, and not ridicule someone. That is a dick move in my book.

I was just teasing, but given the nature of online discourse recently, the idea that it might be possible to disagree civilly does seem a little far-fetched. 

[Howdyphillip]

Just now, ab aeterno said:

I was just teasing, but given the nature of online discourse recently, the idea that it might be possible to disagree civilly does seem a little far-fetched. 

We have a pretty high standard of disagreeing with one another and still maintaining civil discourse around here. It is the primary reason I stick around. I personally relish being challenged with my opinions based on the merits of those opinions.

Speaking of which, back to the movie... Another reason that this is my least favorite Star Wars movies is that it isn't inclusive for kids at all. I'd still take a younger audience, but I would certainly want to sit down and have a discussion about morality, death, and sacrifice afterwards. I prefer my Star Wars movie being very family friendly as it was as a child I fell in love with the series. Although adult me connected with this movie in the back third, I don't think child me would have.

The very reason I do not harbor the outright hatred for Jar Jar Binks that most people do is that I know that character wasn't made for me. I didn't like him just like every adult in the theatre, but I saw how connected my 4 and 8 year old niece and nephew got to him and knew he had a place.

[DaveSumm]

Star Wars has always had a strange schizophrenic thing going on with whether it's for kids or not ("oh God I think I've made a kids movie" I believe Lucas said after ANH), bearing in mind most of the audience were kids but aren't anymore I think this movie split the difference as well as it could. It wasn't that graphic or gory or anything, pretty bleak but not overly so. Sure Jar Jar is for kids, but then what's he doing in a movie who's opening lines are "The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute"? Having fun kids?! I don't think Lucas ever really settled on who he was making it for.

[Mexal]

I thought it was great. The first half didn't bother me and I felt the deaths of each of the characters at the end. I get a lot of the complaints, I just didn't care when watching it. Just a really entertaining chapter in the Star Wars story.