Rogue One Spoilers Discussion: I Am With You, Jyn Erso

[Rhom]

6 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Oh absolutely. I was hoping he would do that against the main characters, but even so it was a glorious scene.

I'm still stunned that not one of them made it out alive.  I figured someone might turn out to be the old man from the beginning of TFA or somehow Jyn would be Rey's mother.   

[ab aeterno]

6 hours ago, felice said:

Murdering billions of civillians as a demonstration is a pretty big "outside". Nobody on the Imperial side seemed to have any objection to Tarkin's orders, and it's not like the Death Star was a little side project Tarkin had set up behind the Emperor's back.

It certainly is a big "outside", but it's very much an outlier from what the Empire does the rest of the time, and it's done by a Moff, not by the Sith; Tarkin makes that decision entirely on his own, even if the project had the Emperor's backing. The Sith themselves really don't do anything nearly as evil as the Jedi narrative implies. 

[ab aeterno]

3 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I agree with the "darker and edgier tone" not being what I want from Star Wars.

Also, the villain was weak.

Very weak.

I don't think he was supposed to be a particularly strong villain, otherwise it would have risked upstaging Tarkin and Vader (from a continuity point of view).

I think part of the point of the character was to show that this guy is a pretty competent military leader; he's good at getting his own way and advancing his career; and he delivered what he promised; and then the Empire relives him off command and kills him with his own weapon. He's more of a foil for Tarkin, Vader and the Empire than a central villain himself.

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

I would like to point out that even after this movie, Darth Vader's record as a battle commander is still spotless, in keeping with Anakin's legacy as one of the top generals in the Clone Wars.

Sure he had other failures, but Vader, as primary battle commander, has not been defeated as far as canon goes.

To play Devil's Advocate, it's pretty convenient that screw-ups always happen after Vader hands over command to someone else, so either he shouldn't hand over command, or he isn't confident of doing the job himself.

6 hours ago, felice said:

I mostly thought it was great, but a bit disappointed at the way it set up the beginning of A New Hope. Leia's ship should have been on it's way to Tatooine to pick up Kenobi, and had the plans beamed to it from the battle. For Leia to be physically present and the plans handed over in person, and the Star Destroyer hot on her heels, just doesn't fit. There's no way they can claim to be a diplomatic mission that intercepted no transmissions when Vader chased them straight from the flagship of a Rebel fleet attacking an Imperial facility.

They can claim it. Might not be very plausible, but honestly, what else are they going to say? "Yes, we're working for the Rebellion?"  I mean, even if they weren't at the battle, they clearly tried to run away from a Star Destroyer, and shot at it. It's not all that likely that Vader would have fired at them if they immediately surrendered and let him board them.

[Pliskin]

I would have preferred if they had just recasted Mendelsohn as Tarkin, instead of giving him another redundant character and CGIing Tarkin.

Mendelsohn would have done a great Tarkin.

[ab aeterno]

4 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I would have preferred if they had just recasted Mendelsohn as Tarkin, instead of giving him another redundant character and CGIing Tarkin.

Mendelsohn would have done a great Tarkin.

They could have just stuck with Wayne Pygram who played Tarkin in RoTS.

[DaveSumm]

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

That last couple of minutes of Vader action was exactly what I wanted from him in this movie. 

 

2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Oh absolutely. I was hoping he would do that against the main characters, but even so it was a glorious scene.

I think that was the scariest Vader's ever been. In A New Hope, Lucas hadn't quite settled on what his place was and you get other officers talking back to him. Empire, and you've got Luke and the Emperor up next to him to compare with. Then obviously he turns good. Here it's just fully dark side Vader, feeble rebellion soldiers and you really grasp their terror. They've probably only heard of him / the Force through myth, and to have your nightmares suddenly come to life with an as-powerful-as-you-feared Vader dispassionately taking apart your friends with ease.......awesome scene.

[Howdyphillip]

I just got back from seeing the film a second time, and need to retract something. The lighting was fine. The first theatre I saw it in obviously had a dim bulb. It was literally a night and day difference. I still loved the movie, and I still have issues with it as well.

 Here is my controversial statement of the year. It is my least favorite Star Wars movie. It may have been objectively better than the prequels, but I got to know the characters better in the prequels, they had better music, and the strong theme of good vs evil which makes Star Wars to me was better served.

[red snow]

7 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

I just got back from seeing the film a second time, and need to retract something. The lighting was fine. The first theatre I saw it in obviously had a dim bulb. It was literally a night and day difference. I still loved the movie, and I still have issues with it as well.

 Here is my controversial statement of the year. It is my least favorite Star Wars movie. It may have been objectively better than the prequels, but I got to know the characters better in the prequels, they had better music, and the strong theme of good vs evil which makes Star Wars to me was better served.

I'm sure Disney is delighted you went to see your least favourite star wars movie twice still

I had a feeling it must have been a shitty theatre when you complained about the darkness of certain scenes yesterday. I thought they were quite skilled in the use of light and dark throughout.

In terms of where I'd place it overall - I sort of get the "it's different from the other star wars films so might be an outlier" but in another way it was the most star wars film in terms of showing war. I think it could easily become the least favourite film for kids though as it's pretty crushing how everyone dies and kids are more likely to love Ninja blind man, Jyn and K2SO despite their sketch-like characterisation. Although I did feel for K2S0. 

It made a lot more sense than TFA but despite people ragging on it "giving people what they wanted" it did just that which was old characters and new characters that were fun and likeable. Plus it had light sabres and actual Jedi/Sith so I think it's still going to be hard for me to put Rogue one above it. Which is odd as Rogue:One told the story it had to, didn't really waste any time besides Disney having a weak point when it comes to tentacle monsters in their films and ensured that the next time I watch EPIV when leia mentions the sacrifice made to get those plans will have a lot more weight.

[Week]

22 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 Here is my controversial statement of the year. It is my least favorite Star Wars movie. It may have been objectively better than the prequels, but I got to know the characters better in the prequels, they had better music, and the strong theme of good vs evil which makes Star Wars to me was better served.

I really enjoyed how fleshed out Jar Jar and Ani were along with the good v evil backdrop of a TRADE WAR on a planet that makes no sense. Those movies are a complete dumpster fire from start to finish with nearly zero redeeming value or quality.

I'll agree with you on the music.

[ab aeterno]

21 minutes ago, Week said:

I really enjoyed how fleshed out Jar Jar and Ani were along with the good v evil backdrop of a TRADE WAR on a planet that makes no sense. Those movies are a complete dumpster fire from start to finish with nearly zero redeeming value or quality.

I'll agree with you on the music.

I counter that if you count the ears Jar Jar is the most fleshed out major character in any of the movies. 

[Howdyphillip]

24 minutes ago, Week said:

I really enjoyed how fleshed out Jar Jar and Ani were along with the good v evil backdrop of a TRADE WAR on a planet that makes no sense. Those movies are a complete dumpster fire from start to finish with nearly zero redeeming value or quality.

I'll agree with you on the music.

 I can tell you ten times the amount of things about Jar Jar Binks and young Anakin Skywalker than you can tell me about Cassian Andor and Bhodi Rook. I can also tell you far more about the intricacies of the Trade War than you can tell me about the factions of the rebellion and why Saw Gurrera was pushed to its fringes.
 

[ab aeterno]

2 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 I can tell you ten times the amount of things about Jar Jar Binks and young Anakin Skywalker than you can tell me about Cassian Andor and Bhodi Rook. I can also tell you far more about the intricacies of the Trade War than you can tell me about the factions of the rebellion and why Saw Gurrera was pushed to its fringes.
 

In part that's because it's far simpler - Saw Guerra is pretty ruthless, tortures people, and has no qualms about blowing up civilians - it's all covered in the first 30 minutes of the film. The Trade War was complicated, but then it never really made any sense.

But the other part is that most of the backstories are elaborated on in separate media - books, The Clone Wars, etc.

[Week]

7 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 I can tell you ten times the amount of things about Jar Jar Binks and young Anakin Skywalker than you can tell me about Cassian Andor and Bhodi Rook. I can also tell you far more about the intricacies of the Trade War than you can tell me about the factions of the rebellion and why Saw Gurrera was pushed to its fringes.
 

Quantity does not equal quality. Detail does not a good story make. None of it makes any sense nor is particularly interesting. Anyways, not what we are here to discuss - I'll ignore your wrongness about the Prequels for the remainder of the thread.

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Howdyphillip said:

Here is my controversial statement of the year. It is my least favorite Star Wars movie. It may have been objectively better than the prequels, but I got to know the characters better in the prequels, they had better music, and the strong theme of good vs evil which makes Star Wars to me was better served.

Howdy, you disappoint me. How well do you get to know all the characters on the Dirty Dozen? Because this is what this movie is in terms of plot and characters. And the main characters of the prequels had the benefit of more than one movie. How good was Ani after just one movie? 

[Relic]

5 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Did anyone else chuckle at the set layout outside the bunker door? I felt like I was about to watch a Mass Effect play demo. All those boxes, neatly laid out to provide good cover for the rebel heroes. 

pretty funny you'd mention that. i made a comment about this very same thing to my friend during the movie. 

[Week]

Just now, Relic said:

pretty funny you'd mention that. i made a comment about this very same thing to my friend during the movie. 

I enjoyed that too.

The 'rabble rabble rabble' scene on Yavin 4 was also the perfect time for "things are worse than ever!" and "no more dead cops!"

[Denvek]

Great film, including some good cameos, but also a pretty egregious one from "My friend doesn't like you" and "I don't like you either"

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Diego Luna says he spent most of the filming of Rogue One staring at Alan Tudyk's balls...

 http://www.avclub.com/article/diego-luna-spent-most-rogue-one-staring-alan-tudyk-247576?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

[felice]

3 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

It certainly is a big "outside", but it's very much an outlier from what the Empire does the rest of the time, and it's done by a Moff, not by the Sith; Tarkin makes that decision entirely on his own, even if the project had the Emperor's backing. The Sith themselves really don't do anything nearly as evil as the Jedi narrative implies. 

We don't see most of what the Empire does the rest of the time, and everything we do see suggests that the Death Star is business as usual, just on a bigger scale. There's no way you can reasonably claim the Sith aren't evil; Vader is physically present and capable of stopping Tarkin and getting away with it in a way none of the junior officers could, but he doesn't have a problem with it, and also tortures his daughter. And the Death Star was built to destroy planets; Tarkin was doing what the Emperor expected/wanted, and the Emperor is most certainly guilty.

2 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

They can claim it. Might not be very plausible, but honestly, what else are they going to say? "Yes, we're working for the Rebellion?"  I mean, even if they weren't at the battle, they clearly tried to run away from a Star Destroyer, and shot at it. It's not all that likely that Vader would have fired at them if they immediately surrendered and let him board them.

How about something like "Hah! You've lost, Vader; this was a decoy, the plans are safely on the other side of the galaxy by now. Long live the Rebell-urk *drops dead*"? Before Rogue One, I think it was safe to assume Star Destroyers had no authority to stop consular ships on diplomatic missions; the Star Destroyer fired first and the blockade runner was just defending itself.

Also, having a deliberately built-in weakness known in advance by the Rebels doesn't jibe very well with "I only hope that when the data is analyzed, a weakness can be found." A ray-shielded exhaust port too small for targeting computers to hit located at the end of a trench that nobody could possibly know about without studying the top-secret full technical readouts is hardly a glaring flaw that needed explaining; it's not like "let's not bother with a port for the exhaust, we can just let it build up inside" would have been a better design option. And why is Red Two surprised at the size of the Death Star if the rebel fleet has been in its vicinity before? Did he call in sick and miss the battle over Scarif?

[All-for-Joffrey]

12 minutes ago, Denvek said:

Great film, including some good cameos, but also a pretty egregious one from "My friend doesn't like you" and "I don't like you either"

Yeah, this really bothered me -- not during the actual cameo but thinking about it afterwards since they blow up Jedha and everyone in the city dies. So they must have been on their way to leave the city at the very last minute, which seems like way too much of a coincidence.