Rogue One Spoilers Discussion: I Am With You, Jyn Erso

[felice]

8 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

I did wonder about the aiming. IIRC though it actually hits the transmitter on the top of the tower, so it's actually pretty pinpoint aiming, if rather pointless.

Yeah - I think it was "Rebels are transmitting Imperial secrets, it's critical that we stop them - take out the transmitter!" just a bit too late. I don't recall if the building itself was destroyed or not - the shockwave was obviously fatal to anyone outside, but it was a top security fortress a long way from ground zero, so maybe it survived?

[ab aeterno]

1 hour ago, felice said:

Yeah - I think it was "Rebels are transmitting Imperial secrets, it's critical that we stop them - take out the transmitter!" just a bit too late. I don't recall if the building itself was destroyed or not - the shockwave was obviously fatal to anyone outside, but it was a top security fortress a long way from ground zero, so maybe it survived?

That's possible. We might also be overthinking it, and it might be a reference to the poorer targeting capabilities of the first Death Star compared to the second. After all, this thing is designed to hit cities and planets, rather than more precise targets.

[ab aeterno]

From Empire via iO9

"The very first version, they didn’t. In the screenplay. And it was just assumed by us that we couldn’t do that. ‘They’re not going to let us do that.’ So I was trying to figure out how this ends where that doesn’t happen. And then everyone read that and there was this feeling of like, ‘They’ve got to die, right?’ And everyone was like, ‘Yeah, can we?’

We thought we weren’t going to be allowed to but Kathy [Kennedy, President of Lucasfilm] and everyone at Disney were like ‘Yeah it makes sense/ I guess they have to because they’re not in A New Hope.’ And so from that point on we had the license.

I kept waiting for someone to go, ‘You know what? Could we just film an extra scene where we see Jyn and Cassian, they’re okay and they’re on another planet?’ And it never came. No one ever gave us that note, so we got to do it."

[Davrum]

14 hours ago, Corvinus said:

The part where he can sense that Cassian is getting ready to commit murder suggests that he is really is one with the force to at least have some extra senses. 

That and the part where he blows on his hand and proceeds to shoot a tie fighter out of the sky with a bowcaster with such precision that he not only takes it down, he takes it down in such a way that it plows into a gun turret.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

38 minutes ago, ab aeterno said:

From Empire via iO9

"The very first version, they didn’t. In the screenplay. And it was just assumed by us that we couldn’t do that. ‘They’re not going to let us do that.’ So I was trying to figure out how this ends where that doesn’t happen. And then everyone read that and there was this feeling of like, ‘They’ve got to die, right?’ And everyone was like, ‘Yeah, can we?’

We thought we weren’t going to be allowed to but Kathy [Kennedy, President of Lucasfilm] and everyone at Disney were like ‘Yeah it makes sense/ I guess they have to because they’re not in A New Hope.’ And so from that point on we had the license.

I kept waiting for someone to go, ‘You know what? Could we just film an extra scene where we see Jyn and Cassian, they’re okay and they’re on another planet?’ And it never came. No one ever gave us that note, so we got to do it."

Everyone dying was such a liberating feeling after the movie. It brought a sense of closure to the story in a way that I haven't experienced from a big screen blockbuster in a long time. I've become so jaded from watching movies where I know that nobody can ever die because death removes potential future franchise movies, and every movie is just 'part 2 of 6'. 

Whats great is that you can have a series of movies which are telling this over arching story, but you dont need to have the same characters telling it. I wish more movies would go that way.

[Jen'ari]

8 hours ago, Corvinus said:

You're just sore he threw you down a well.

It was a bit extreme, he could have just given me the hose again .

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Davrum said:

That and the part where he blows on his hand and proceeds to shoot a tie fighter out of the sky with a bowcaster with such precision that he not only takes it down, he takes it down in such a way that it plows into a gun turret.

The point about that, and everything else Chirrut does, though, is that they could have been just extraordinary luck or uncanny perception. The writers are careful about that. He doesn't do anything directly with the power of the Force, like throwing people around with a gesture or controlling their minds. What he does is done through having faith in the Force, as it acts through him, not by him directing the Force as a Jedi does.

As noted, if Chirrut had been an actual Jedi the Rebellion would have handed the entire mission over to him and Vader (and the Emperor) would have made finding and killing him their top priority, likely even over the Death Star plans. Instead, he's a character who's there to show that faith in the Force is not restricted to Jedi.

[Relic]

6 hours ago, kairparavel said:

The bolded - it felt more like a guy in a Party City Halloween costume than the epic villain in a movie series. And his helmet, what the shit? I'm not even really a Star Wars fan girl and I noticed it to the point of near distraction.

Its a little bit like - 

 

[Relic]

27 minutes ago, mormont said:

As noted, if Chirrut had been an actual Jedi the Rebellion would have handed the entire mission over to him and Vader (and the Emperor) would have made finding and killing him their top priority, likely even over the Death Star plans. Instead, he's a character who's there to show that faith in the Force is not restricted to Jedi.

He's not a Jedi but he is very clearly Force sensitive (if that's still a thing after the death of the E.U.)

[red snow]

38 minutes ago, mormont said:

The point about that, and everything else Chirrut does, though, is that they could have been just extraordinary luck or uncanny perception. The writers are careful about that. He doesn't do anything directly with the power of the Force, like throwing people around with a gesture or controlling their minds. What he does is done through having faith in the Force, as it acts through him, not by him directing the Force as a Jedi does.

As noted, if Chirrut had been an actual Jedi the Rebellion would have handed the entire mission over to him and Vader (and the Emperor) would have made finding and killing him their top priority, likely even over the Death Star plans. Instead, he's a character who's there to show that faith in the Force is not restricted to Jedi.

Along similar lines I felt he was someone who could use the Force only as an extra sense - like Eels using EMP or something like that. When those shots missed him it was more he was acting as a conduit for the Force (once the Force had achieved its objective, it had no further use for him and left him to die).

I'm sure there are plenty of times in the films where Han Solo gets lucky (or Lando/any non Force using character) and you can say the Force was helping them. I'm sure there's a reason "may the force be with you" is used by many and not just the Jedi.

I also agree that if Chirrut was a force user then Darth (or the inquisitors from Rebels) would have been all over him. I got the impression his cult/church were well known and largely ignored because they had faith in the force but couldn't manipulate it.

Although being able to see via the Force is technically manipulating it unless you come at from the angle of "I can see but I can't really manipulate the electromagnetic spectrum through force of will". Which is how I'm approaching it.

[Lordsteve666]

I just figured he was sensitive to the Force, he could feel it flowing through the world around him essentially giving him a sixth sense. So it didn't mater that he was blind, he could see perfectly well.

I think the thing with not being shot was just him knowing where and when to move, we saw him dodge blaster shots a few times too. He can't actually manipulate the force but he can still make use of it. 

Shooting down that TIE was pretty cool, but again he could have just picked the perfect time and place to shoot it. With all his extra perception he knew exactly what to do. It's kind of like Hawkeye in the Avengers, he's not got magic powers, he's just really, really good with a bow.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

Everyone dying was such a liberating feeling after the movie. It brought a sense of closure to the story in a way that I haven't experienced from a big screen blockbuster in a long time. I've become so jaded from watching movies where I know that nobody can ever die because death removes potential future franchise movies, and every movie is just 'part 2 of 6'.

Imagine how many billions Disney lost by not doing Han Solo, the Fogey Chronicles.

[Lordsteve666]

One tiny little thing I just remembered was really nice was when Krennic pushes himself up off the floor of the platform near the end once Jyn and Cassin have left. He looks up to see the Death Star staring him down.

It's at that point he must have known what was coming, he'd lost, he had failed in his mission and now he was no use to the Empire. He knew what it meant when the Death Star turned its "eye" on the installation, he built the thing so he knew the power about to be unleashed on the base.

I think that was a very fitting end to someone who clearly was only concerned with his own ambitions, to finally realise your own creation is about to kill you...

[Howdyphillip]

 So, can we agree that Cassian and Saw actually behave like despicable people? So does Jyn Erso in the implication that she not only participated in morally bankrupt decisions in the past, but she was complicit in the actions of at least Cassian in this movie.

 I witnessed two outright murders from Cassian the first being the informant in his first scene, and the second targeting one of Saw's insurgents to set his bombs off to kill Empire troops. We also witnessed indiscriminate killing and torture preformed by Saw and his band of resisters. I personally find none of this to be morally justified. Also, the decision to use someone's daughter to gain access to murder someone is reprehensible in my book. Even though he didn't go through with that, his actions were devoid character.

This is the main reason that I say that this movie is not for kids. I would bring a younger person to this movie, but I would certainly be ready to have conversations about what is right and wrong with them.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:07 PM, Howdyphillip said:

 I can tell you ten times the amount of things about Jar Jar Binks and young Anakin Skywalker than you can tell me about Cassian Andor and Bhodi Rook. I can also tell you far more about the intricacies of the Trade War than you can tell me about the factions of the rebellion and why Saw Gurrera was pushed to its fringes.
 

Plot is character.  Character is plot.  The important question isn't why a character acts but what the character does next.  That's what we got with Rogue One.  It was show don't tell.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

16 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 So, can we agree that Cassian and Saw actually behave like despicable people? So does Jyn Erso in the implication that she not only participated in morally bankrupt decisions in the past, but she was complicit in the actions of at least Cassian in this movie.

 I witnessed two outright murders from Cassian the first being the informant in his first scene, and the second targeting one of Saw's insurgents to set his bombs off to kill Empire troops. We also witnessed indiscriminate killing and torture preformed by Saw and his band of resisters. I personally find none of this to be morally justified. Also, the decision to use someone's daughter to gain access to murder someone is reprehensible in my book. Even though he didn't go through with that, his actions were devoid character.

This is the main reason that I say that this movie is not for kids. I would bring a younger person to this movie, but I would certainly be ready to have conversations about what is right and wrong with them.

 

Of course I think it was pretty obvious that many of the characters in the movie were not outright 'good guys' in the traditional sense. I think movie audiences have outgrown the concept that rebellions are built on good actions, you only have to see the world around us to know this simply isn't true, and never has been. Saw in particular was painted as a man who will go to extreme lengths to find a solution, what he did to the pilot was essentially torture. Hes one step away from Darth Vader. But we are supposed to be aware of this. 

And thank god. The last thing I want is for a movie to preach morality at me. 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Plot is character.  Character is plot.  The important question isn't why a character acts but what the character does next.  That's what we got with Rogue One.  It was show don't tell.

Jar Jar is a very well rounded character, as is Anakin. For one Jar Jar steps in poop, and also has floppy ears. He's very complex.

Anakin also loves Padme.. but doesn't like sand. Hes very complex as well.

[dbunting]

39 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 So, can we agree that Cassian and Saw actually behave like despicable people? So does Jyn Erso in the implication that she not only participated in morally bankrupt decisions in the past, but she was complicit in the actions of at least Cassian in this movie.

 I witnessed two outright murders from Cassian the first being the informant in his first scene, and the second targeting one of Saw's insurgents to set his bombs off to kill Empire troops. We also witnessed indiscriminate killing and torture preformed by Saw and his band of resisters. I personally find none of this to be morally justified. Also, the decision to use someone's daughter to gain access to murder someone is reprehensible in my book. Even though he didn't go through with that, his actions were devoid character.

This is the main reason that I say that this movie is not for kids. I would bring a younger person to this movie, but I would certainly be ready to have conversations about what is right and wrong with them.

 

They are fighting for the entire galaxy and most people have no idea how bad the empire is yet. As to the informer, I saw him killing him as necessary, the guy was going to give his location away and cause him to get caught and you know that guy would have squealed like a pig as soon as he was questioned. If that happens the plans for the Death Star and it's weakness are never found and the Empire wins. As to the bombs, I saw it as him protecting Jyn. The guy with the bombs was aiming for where she was, hiding under the vehicle, so I saw him killing that guy as him protecting her.

 

[Werthead]

11 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I actually missed the Hera call out...however, I did predict it in the other thread...

I absolutely missed the ghost.  

All of the Rebels easter eggs...

It'll be interesting that they're going to have Saw in Rebels very soon...it will pinpoint a period of time when the show is specifically set...

Rebels starts 5 years before A New Hope (and 14 years after Revenge of the Sith). There are some theories that the first two seasons cover a much longer period of time than it appears, though, as Leia appears to be older than 14 or 15 in Season 2.

[Howdyphillip]

21 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Of course I think it was pretty obvious that many of the characters in the movie were not outright 'good guys' in the traditional sense.

2 minutes ago, dbunting said:

They are fighting for the entire galaxy and most people have no idea how bad the empire is yet. As to the informer, I saw him killing him as necessary, the guy was going to give his location away and cause him to get caught and you know that guy would have squealed like a pig as soon as he was questioned. If that happens the plans for the Death Star and it's weakness are never found and the Empire wins. As to the bombs, I saw it as him protecting Jyn. The guy with the bombs was aiming for where she was, hiding under the vehicle, so I saw him killing that guy as him protecting her.

 

 I've seen the film four times now, and I'm going back to see it a fifth tonight. The first scene was a murder of convenience. Whether you agree with that convenience or not doesn't make it  not so. The second was not to protect Jyn, it was to specifically target troops standing underneath the guy he shot. That is clear.

 

31 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Of course I think it was pretty obvious that many of the characters in the movie were not outright 'good guys' in the traditional sense. I think movie audiences have outgrown the concept that rebellions are built on good actions, you only have to see the world around us to know this simply isn't true, and never has been. Saw in particular was painted as a man who will go to extreme lengths to find a solution, what he did to the pilot was essentially torture. Hes one step away from Darth Vader. But we are supposed to be aware of this. 

And thank god. The last thing I want is for a movie to preach morality at me. 

First all, I think that you are dismissing classic story telling. There is merit in the good vs evil story line as evidenced by the outright love and devotion for the Star Wars franchise. All of the Star Wars movies preach morality to you.

 While I enjoyed this movie. (I am going back to see it a fifth time this morning), it is still my least favorite Star Wars movie. I do not believe that we as audience ever "outgrow" classic tales. They are classic for a reason.