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Risto

Discusing Sansa XVIII: North and South

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So, the new episode arrived and Sansa ended up as the Regent in the North. The moment has come for Sansa to shine as the ruler or fail... Needless to say with Petyr Wormtongue Baelish and Jon's Ned/Eomer moment, the wheels will be spinning in Winterfell.

Your thoughts and opinions on sansa's arc are more than welcome...

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29 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Petyr is doomed, i'm willing to bet he will be offed by Arya.

I personally reckon that it is more likely that it will be Sansa who will be the cause of LF's downfall, although I suspect she may not be the only character involved.

Somehow, before this happens though I think the fact that he betrayed Ned will become known and possibly the fact that he framed Tyrion and Sansa for Joffrey's death.  I guess he has wronged so many people that anyone could be a candidate to cross him off.  Still, I would love to see a colaboration between Sansa and Tyrion, and well since it looks as many main characters will end up in Winterfell I guess it is not impossible.

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1 hour ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Petyr is doomed, i'm willing to bet he will be offed by Arya.

As of now, LF isn't on her kill list

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I don't see her as a regent, she got her logical place in the story as the lord of the north after 3 episodes of fan service from D&D.

She will bring the southern ruling style to the northern lands.

A reunion with Arya that's for sure is happening.

As for the GrandMaster Baelish, I can't think that he will be dead anytime soon, his story is not at its end yet.

Sansa's story have two things : Littlefinger and the army of the Vale, and the future of his arc is too mysterious right now but I think it depends on the outcome of the battle between Cersei and Daenerys, Cersei is a walking dead because of the prophecy of Maggy the frog and Daenerys is the queen of the ashes because of the house of undying's vision

 

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18 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I don't see her as a regent, she got her logical place in the story as the lord of the north after 3 episodes of fan service from D&D.

A reunion with Arya that's for sure is happening.

As for the GrandMaster Baelish, I can't think that he will be dead anytime soon, his story is not at its end yet.

Sansa's story have two things : Littlefinger and the army of the Vale, and the future of his arc is too mysterious right now but I think it depends on the outcome of the battle between Cersei and Daenerys, Cersei is a walking dead because of the prophecy of Maggy the frog and Daenerys is the queen of the ashes because of the house of undying's vision

 

Not really. Jon being King inThe North was important de to what he did and what it will serve to. He's the best leader they have to lead them through The Long Night, Sansa has no freaking clue.

Again I'd be careful with calling Dany Queen of Ashes, that's what Cersei is willing to be.

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While I liked that Sansa achieved the position she deserved; really, writers, how hard would it be to left her and Jon privately agree on a course of action BEFORE getting into a big brouhaha in front of the Northern lords? Less faux tension? We could use a bit of that between them at this point. I did notice an easing of it when Jon immediately asked her what she thought; she clearly appreciated his soliciting her opinion. Their arguments feel forced and stupid.

As for any role in the future death of LF, Sansa rather than Jon must order it *(as she did with Ramsay) because of Baelish's part in betraying her father. But there's one problem with that; IIRC the only person who knows LF betrayed Ned Stark is Sandor. (Gonna rewatch that s1 ep - yes, Sandor was there). I don't recall anyone else currently in the north also having been in the KL throne room when the city watch turned and LF held a blade to Ned. Does this mean Sandor & co stop by Winterfell on their way up north? Let's hope so by the old gods. Time for Arya to let him know she's revised that death list anyway. Now if Sansa and Arya want to kill Baelish just because of his ambitions; fine, I'll let it go, but for Ned to have true justice, LF's role should be revealed before he gets his throat slit.

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42 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Again I'd be careful with calling Dany Queen of Ashes, that's what Cersei is willing to be.

I saw it like this and I have nothing against the character of Daenerys : she will lay siege on King's landing and then Qyburn will shot down one or two of her dragons, I can see her rage when she sees her most precious thing in the world dead

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52 minutes ago, Sand11751 said:

While I liked that Sansa achieved the position she deserved; really, writers, how hard would it be to left her and Jon privately agree on a course of action BEFORE getting into a big brouhaha in front of the Northern lords? Less faux tension? We could use a bit of that between them at this point. I did notice an easing of it when Jon immediately asked her what she thought; she clearly appreciated his soliciting her opinion. Their arguments feel forced and stupid.

To be fair to Sansa in this episode, Jon made his decision without informing his chief advisers Sansa and Davos, who both agreed when reading Tyrion's letter that it was too dangerous for Jon to go himself. If he didn't want Sansa to throw a fit, maybe he should have said something to Sansa about changing his mind when he received Sam's letter and shouldn't have ambushed her with a public announcement, particularly when he made such a conspicuous show of asking for her opinion earlier in the episode.

Also, if Yohn Royce, Lord Glover and Lyanna Mormont are allowed to weigh in and disagree whenever Jon announces something, I don't see why Sansa needs to shut up and sit quietly when the announcement is apparently as much news to her as it is to them.

From a meta perspective, though, I agree it's bullshit false tension: Sansa for all her sniping cares about Jon (otherwise she wouldn't be upset at hearing about him heading into a risky situation), and Jon while frustrated with Sansa speaking out against him in public knows where she's coming from and knows she isn't the only one who disagrees with him.

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2 hours ago, Grey_Ghost said:

As of now, LF isn't on her kill list

Correct.  When Ayra was first heading North I was hoping she would be the one to kill Littlefinger but she has no clue he was responsible for Ned's betrayal and the many other things he has done since then. Littlefinger is not stupid, he's not hanging around in Winterfell with his Knights of the Vale feeling unsafe.  He is always anticipating the next moves by everyone so I don't see him being caught by surprise.  In the crypts alone with Jon, he never felt in danger because he knew Jon would not kill him like that. The only wildcard he hasn't planned for is Ayra returning, but she needs to somehow find out about his devious deeds to be a threat.

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1 hour ago, Sand11751 said:

While I liked that Sansa achieved the position she deserved; really, writers, how hard would it be to left her and Jon privately agree on a course of action BEFORE getting into a big brouhaha in front of the Northern lords? Less faux tension? We could use a bit of that between them at this point. I did notice an easing of it when Jon immediately asked her what she thought; she clearly appreciated his soliciting her opinion. Their arguments feel forced and stupid.

As for any role in the future death of LF, Sansa rather than Jon must order it *(as she did with Ramsay) because of Baelish's part in betraying her father. But there's one problem with that; IIRC the only person who knows LF betrayed Ned Stark is Sandor. (Gonna rewatch that s1 ep). I don't recall anyone else currently in the north also having been in the KL throne room when the city watch turned and LF held a blade to Ned. Does this mean Sandor & co stop by Winterfell on their way up north? Let's hope so by the old gods. Time for Arya to let him know she's revised that death list anyway. Now if Sansa and Arya want to kill Baelish just because of his ambitions; fine, I'll let it go, but for Ned to have true justice, LF's role should be revealed before he gets his throat slit.

I completely forgot that it wasn't public knowledge who betrayed Ned.
Thinking of Sandor, that makes perfect sense.


Arya & Sandor need a reunion. Both are heading to Winterfell.  I can see Sandor getting there and asking why the F LF is there after what he did to Ned.  Both Stark girls look blankly at Sandor.  He explains what LF did and then all of a sudden life isnt so good for LF.

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As of now, LF isn't on her kill list

And perhaps the list is closed for new entries anyway, as it belongs to an earlier part of Aryas life.

What I really hope (but not expect) is a misunderstanding between Arya and Sansa about Brienne, something like "Do not trust her, she is paid by the Lannisters". Aryas level of information should be a little outdated.

 

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

To be fair to Sansa in this episode, Jon made his decision without informing his chief advisers Sansa and Davos...

 

I do agree with you, but I give Jon the pass on this, and not Sansa, because she knows a critical piece of information he doesn't: Baelish is trying to sow dissent between them. If she wants to avoid falling into his trap again, which she seemed to make clear in their confrontation at Mole's Town, she has to be smarter than him than to get into a public feud with Jon that Baelish then exploits.

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20 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

Arya & Sandor need a reunion. Both are heading to Winterfell.  I can see Sandor getting there and asking why the F LF is there after what he did to Ned.  Both Stark girls look blankly at Sandor.  He explains what LF did and then all of a sudden life isnt so good for LF.

This! Which, of course, means it won't happen in the writers' room. Baelish is responsible FOR SO much tragedy, that he needs to get his. But I'm always reminded of what Ramsay said, "If you think this has a happy ending..."

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3 hours ago, Sand11751 said:

But there's one problem with that; IIRC the only person who knows LF betrayed Ned Stark is Sandor.

Further characters who know (but are not in the North at the moment): Cersei, most probably Varys and Tyrion. Bran Stark might be able to "see" it.

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I know there was a lot of criticism directed towards Sansa for speaking out against Jon in public last week, but I can't see why people would fault with her for it this week. Like Newstar said, privately it seemed that Jon agreed it was too dangerous to meet with Dany, and then he pulled a 180 in front of everyone, so of course Sansa is going to react. Her entire family is dead as a direct result of the Northerners getting involved with southerners, and now her presumably last remaining sibling is leaving her to meet with the Mad King's daughter and after everything Sansa's been through, she's not optimistic enough to believe Jon's coming back. You could see it on her face when she waved goodbye; she thinks Jon is done for. I can't believe this is the one think Jon didn't talk to her about, not for the sake of putting on a front, but because of everything that's happened to the last two generations of Starks. Jon is really coming across as someone who never learns.

As for Sansa acting in Jon's place while he's gone, I think she'll do fine. The Northerners have agreed with her everything she's said something and she's the last person to trust LF. 

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3 minutes ago, WolfOfWinter said:

I know there was a lot of criticism directed towards Sansa for speaking out against Jon in public last week, but I can't see why people would fault with her for it this week. Like Newstar said, privately it seemed that Jon agreed it was too dangerous to meet with Dany, and then he pulled a 180 in front of everyone, so of course Sansa is going to react. Her entire family is dead as a direct result of the Northerners getting involved with southerners, and now her presumably last remaining sibling is leaving her to meet with the Mad King's daughter and after everything Sansa's been through, she's not optimistic enough to believe Jon's coming back. You could see it on her face when she waved goodbye; she thinks Jon is done for. I can't believe this is the one think Jon didn't talk to her about, not for the sake of putting on a front, but because of everything that's happened to the last two generations of Starks. Jon is really coming across as someone who never learns.

As for Sansa acting in Jon's place while he's gone, I think she'll do fine. The Northerners have agreed with her everything she's said something and she's the last person to trust LF. 

yeah, I have been laughing at this "plot device" or whatever you want to call it these past couple episodes where Jon and Sansa don't discuss things BEFORE airing them out in front of everyone.  It's more comical than anything, but I guess I can understand that the show wants some dramatic scenes that involve EVERYONE, as they have a lot of characters they want to service including not just Jon and Sansa but Lyanna Mormont, Davos, Brienne, and even Glover/Royce/etc.  

 

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I think sansa will end up learning that ruling isn't as easy as she thought. She will probably learn how to do it well but realize jon wasn't making mistakes like she thought he was. Or she will completly screw everything over. Given how dany's character is acting I think sansa will succeed

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2 hours ago, Alayne's Shadow. said:

@Newstar What's your take on Sansa being Wardeness of the North for the time being?

It's obvious Sansa will off LF.

I'm spoiled for the remainder of Season 7, so I can't talk about stuff going forward outside the spoilers thread. 

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