Jon should bend his knees.

[SansaJonRule]

13 hours ago, Anarres said:

He shouldn't. It gives him some leverage over the situation as he now represents a "third faction" of sorts.

Also, Daenerys insistence is understandable as she doesn't understand the political situation he is facing. Daenerys doesn't understand the threat of the Army of the Dead either. Her advisers, if they were worth the trouble of dragging them along, should have educated her on the first point. But it's fair enough that she's taking her time to accept the second. Though with how quickly people seem to come to grips with seeing dragons I suppose it's about time for her to come around to Jon's stories.

What he can do is make like Cincinnatus and vow to step aside once the war is over. This might ease the tension a bit.

I had initially thought that Jon should just vow to step aside once the war with the WW is over, but after Jon's speech about more of the same, I changed my mind.  She needs to prove she's different from previous Southron rulers if she wants the North's true support.  It really would be a betrayal for Jon to bend the knee.  That's how Jon sees it and how the Northron lords would see it.

[direwoofwoof]

14 hours ago, Camara said:

There's no one else better for Daenerys for a political marriage than Jon.

And if he bends the knee, essentially giving up the north, in addition to being a deserter of the Watch, he will be perceived as a quitter. He's on more equal footing with Dany when he's a king.

However the fact that the same exact language about pride (not bending the knee because of his pride) was used on Jon that he used on Mance, I feel like he will eventually bend the knee to Dany on some way... marriage would be a good solution. 

[Lurid Jester]

3 hours ago, theMADdestScientist_ said:

No one kicked Torrhen Stark out of the North after he bend the knee to Aegon.

Different era, different kings. The North hadn't just named Torrhen King before he bent knee to Aegon. 

[Crona]

Jon should just tell Dany that if she wants the North, then she has to go up there and prove it to them by helping them. Could be as simple as giving them dragonglass and food in person, and promising to fight for them during White Walker invasion.

Also when Aegon had Torrhen bend the knee, the North had only witnessed the Field of FIre, they didn't experience of having foreign rulers killing off their lords such as Richard and Brandon Stark. So, it's understandable that they wouldn't want to the Targs to rule them again. Also, if Jon bends the knee, they might just swear allegiance to Sansa, Arya or Bran, cause you know there are other Starks

 

[xander_blackfyre]

4 hours ago, theMADdestScientist_ said:

No one kicked Torrhen Stark out of the North after he bend the knee to Aegon.

The field of fire had just happened so that was foremost in his mind he had a smaller force than combined army of the Reach and the Rock he knew fighting was pointless.  Aegon also proved to be very generous and merciful as well to those who showed fealty.  The day after the field of fire he captured King Loren allowed him to not only live but keep his lordship, and named him warden of the west, when the Tyrells surrendered Highgarden to him he made them Lord Paramount of the Reach and wardens of south.

Many of men currently in the north know the last Targaryen king to rule killed their liege lord, his son, and wanted the head of a man that many admired and respected.  The men in the north after the all the fight do not trust southern rulers and really do not trust a Targaryen, especially a Targaryen that was not born in Westeros and had never set foot on the continent.  

Jon should in no way bend the knee to Dany, when Torrhen bent the knee, Aegon had already captured 4 of the 7 kingdoms, Dany has not captured any, Aegon had turned enemies in to allies with the Westerlands, Reach(save Oldtown), Riverlands and Stormlands all fighting for him.  Dany has lost all her allies, Dany's claim to the iron throne is baseless as the Targaryens hold no power in Westeros as the house was defeated and diposed.  Jon earned his kingship he is not going around like he is owed something.  Who is she to demand he bend the knee, she needs him just as much as he needs her.  Should she I dont know win the war before demanding fealty.

[starklover]

4 hours ago, CleverNames AllTaken said:

Not sure why there's so much Jon hating going on here. I don't think he should not will bend the knee to Dany. 

Dany may have dragons and may seem to have all the power, but her power derives from a foreign invading force. The only reason why she had Westeros followers weren't because they were in love with Dany or the idea of another Targ ruler, but because they each hated Cersei (or feared Euron). Jon, on the other hand, came to power by displaying his abilities and willingness to do the right thing. 

He didn't campaign to be Lord Commander, but his brothers elected him anyways (against his wishes)

He refused Stannis's offer to be made Lord Stark of Winterfell (a legitimized Stark was basically his lifelong dream)

He didn't proclaim himself King (like every other leader in this story, sans Rob), his countrymen appointed him as their King. 

While he may not follow every wish of the Lords of the North, he does need to maintain their trust. When Dany says they will accept her rule if he tells them so, she's missing the whole point and is acting like an entitled brat. Jon's existence is based on doing the right thing and learning from his mistakes (and the mistakes of those in his life...as Sansa so aptly told him that he needs to be better than Need and Rob). If Jon immediately bends the knee, then he'll lose the support of the North much like Rob did. He didn't bend the knee to Stannis but still managed to earn his trust and respect. I imagine he will do the same with Dany, especially when they do their trip North of the Wall. 

i agree. 

1. if dany didnt ahve dragons she wouldnt have all this power.

2. they hate cerei so much that they will want everyone to be queen/king

3. shes threaten anyone who didnt bend the knee to death. how is she any better then cerei?

[El Guapo]

32 minutes ago, xander_blackfyre said:

Jon should in no way bend the knee to Dany, when Torrhen bent the knee, Aegon had already captured 4 of the 7 kingdoms, Dany has not captured any, Aegon had turned enemies in to allies with the Westerlands, Reach(save Oldtown), Riverlands and Stormlands all fighting for him.  Dany has lost all her allies, Dany's claim to the iron throne is baseless as the Targaryens hold no power in Westeros as the house was defeated and diposed.  Jon earned his kingship he is not going around like he is owed something.  Who is she to demand he bend the knee, she needs him just as much as he needs her.  Should she I dont know win the war before demanding fealty.

No she doesn't need him as much as he needs her. This is pretty clear and even Jon knows it. 

I also find this idea that she lost her allies a little silly to be honest. Yes, Ellaria has been captured but is there any reason to think Dorne still doesn't support Dany?  They are certainly not going to fight her which in the end is what matters.  Same thing with the Reach now that the Tarly's have been destroyed.  Jamie pretty much admitted prior to the battle that Dany could pretty much take Highgarden back, which there is no reason she shouldn't other than the writers being idiots. She also has control of the Westerlands through her capture of Casterly Rock. Who knows what is going on in the Stormlands since they don't seem to exist as kingdom any longer though I can't see any reason whatsoever why they would support Cersei..

[Lord Godric]

5 hours ago, Capo Ferro said:

She has definitely often been a prick and definitely still shares with Viserys a belief that her right to rule is established by her bloodline. And she is reluctant to abandon her family legacy and let the empire of seven kingdoms her family built become seven independent kingdoms again leaving her the queen of nothing.

But I think it's not surprising that she is still where she is at this point in the game because it does seem to be the central philosophical problem of the show.  Once it is resolved, the rest is just cleanup -- a spectacular battle or two, some satisfying deaths and then done. 

The real issue is will she finally land in the camp of Joffrey, Viserys, Cersei, Stannis etc who demand obedience and power by right (either birthright it because they happen to hold the throne); the realist camp of Littlefinger, Olenna, maybe Sansa, sometimes Cersei and maybe Tywin and Tyrionthat sees obedience and power as what you manipulate people into giving, or the Jon Snow, maybe Tywin and Tyrion, Missandei school of power as the consequence of winning the respect and love of the people by protecting them from threats.  And it seems to me that the army of the dead is the threat that allows her to become the benevolent protector she likes to think of herself as being and that Cersei and Littlefinger as leading representatives of the other schools will be their own undoing.

You make great points. I guess my biggest problem is with the pacing and character development of Dany. She should be taking steps towards..something. But her character seems to have remained largely unchanged since season 3. 

[Attitude]

14 hours ago, LyannaStargaryen said:

Attitude, I get where you are coming from on this one.   I just think from what we've seen of Jon, whether he is is proven to be legitimate or not (and again, I think it's almost inevitable in the show that he will learn of his heritage and likely that he is legitimate), having children is super low on his list of priorities.  He may have other desires, as we've seen from his brooding/flirting with Dany, but his main goal is defeating the Night King and securing peace and safety for the North and by extension the rest of the Seven Kingdoms.  And from his character arc, I don't see how finding out he's the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna and legitimate would change his mission and focus.  

Also, if you're assuming Jon being legit will be proven, there won't be any bastard theory to overcome, because in that scenario it's been proven and accepted by whoever it matters to. 

And while cousin marriage is perhaps no less strange than aunt-nephew marriage, it seems like most of the evidence points away from Jon/Sansa or Jon/Arya, at least in the show world.  Both Sansa's and especially Arya's character arcs don't suggest any romantic pairing with Jon in the show.  Whereas the case for Jon/Dany is littered with evidence, motive, opportunity, and now attraction.  

Totally agreed on the fact that his no 1. priority is defeating the Night King and safe the realm. But that doesn't mean he won't take things like dany being barren into account. I'm not saying he will change anything about his priority's because of his parents, but it will change the entire Dany/Jon relationship (Queen vs KitN instead of aunt and nephew, in the latter she should swear allegiance to him according to her own claim). Again; not excluding marriage between them, just don't think it fit's in the long term picture of the entire show/story (and maybe the showrunners screwed up that picture by changing to much). 

Agreed, if there is any hinting of a Jon Targaryen / Stark marriage it would be between Jon & Arya, but I agree that doesn't seem likely at this point (did you ever read the letter from GRRM with his initial story idea? Not that I think it's relevant at this point, but funny to think about it..). However I don't see much hinting towards marriage between Dany & Jon though. (Sexual) tension, yes, but marriage ideas.. not really

12 hours ago, Nic. said:

Moot point.  Everyone will be rallying around Jon in the end for the fight against the White Walkers.  Not to mention, the show isn't exactly being subtle with hints to Jon's true heritage which only makes it more likely that in the end Dany will be the one to do the actual bending. 

8 hours ago, Lord Godric said:

Yes, why force him to bend the knee? Why stress that you were destined to rule the Seven Kingdoms and will not tolerate someone calling themselves the king in the north? Why not an alliance with Jon to help each other instead of making him subservient to you. Dany insisting on him bending the knee is more of the same sense of entitlement we've seen from her character for quite a long time now. 

She mentioned it more often in the last three (forget about the 4th) episodes than in the other season combined (don't know if that's 100% true, but it feels that way). 

The showrunners are just bringing this up to build the tension between them and this has a (or several) reason(s). I think that at least one of them is because she bases her claim on the IT on her name, and if Jon is a legit heir (which I think he is) he goes before Dany. But it could just be a relationship related tension that they are building up though. 

7 hours ago, theMADdestScientist_ said:

No one kicked Torrhen Stark out of the North after he bend the knee to Aegon.

See below.

6 hours ago, snow is the man said:

That was before aery's and then the iron throne under other was horrible for the north as well. It isn't just about the targs ruling but the southern kings and queen ruling them. They have been thorugh too much crap since then

This ^. Don't forget that 4 Starks went south in the last 20 (or something) years (Rickard, Brandon, Eddard and Rob) and they all died (three of them because a 'southern ruler' demanded they would come down, one in rebellion). The North is since the red wedding united again together with the wildlings (!!! The wildlings where the only enemy's the North knew during Roberts Reign) and within a couple of weeks/months after crowning Jon KitN even though he has no right, they lose him to a Southern ruler again? You have to understand that this isn't the moment for that. 

[Mikkel]

Jon cannot bend the knee even if he wanted to. The Northern lords won't accept it. He may have overruled them on a few minor matters, but Jon has unparalleled experience with what happens if you ignore your lords (officers of the watch) on something truly important. "For the Watch" becomes "For the North".

If Jon dies or gets ousted, there's no-one else who believes strongly enough that the Others are the true threat - and by the time they realize it, it'll be too late.

Jon has one option only, and that is to leave Dragonstone with some kind of help, but Northern independence intact. Currently he's getting Dragonglass, which is good, even better would be getting an army and some dragons, but he cannot give Dany the North, since it's not his to give - it's not the kind of King that Jon is, and even if it was, he knows it won't work. His hold on power is tenuous at best, being a bastard, a former Night's Watch member etc - it would be very easy indeed to challenge his rulership of the North. Bending the knee to a foreign invader, the daughter of the Mad King and her screaming horde of rapists and pillagers, would most likely be enough for at least some of the Lords to question if this really is the King they want.

[RhaenysBee]

10 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Okay, but once you acknowledge, that Dany is likely to lose by herself against the WWs, or even if she prevails against them in some manner, but the WWs would inflict significant damage on her kingdom, then I'd submit the best play for Jon is not to bend, if we're assuming here that all he cares about is maintaining Northern independence or his crown (and I’m not saying that should be the only factor in reality), while defeating the Others.

Putting a little analytical structure over this:

Let's say both Jon and Dany know the others payoffs for taking certain course of action. And let's say Jon makes a decision about whether to not bend or to bend and Dany knows that decision (ie its in her information set) and then, after Jon, she has to take an action.

Let's say Jon's action set is bend or not bend [B,NB]

And let's say Dany's action set is to help or not to help [H, NH]

Supposing Jon plays NB and then Dany plays NH. If that happens then let’s say Jon's payoff is 0 because everyone in the North, including Jon, dies. And let’s say Dany's payoff is c. It's a bit higher than 0, but only a little bit higher because even if she prevails against the WW’s by herself it’s likely to come at significant cost to her people and to her kingdom.

So we have:
NB,NH -> 0, c

Supposing Dany however decides to play H to Jon's NB. Will say Jon's payoff is j1 and Dany's payoff is d2.

Then we have:
NB,H->j1,d2

Now supposing Jon plays B and Dany's accordingly plays H. In this scenario Jon gets j2 and Dany gets d3. 

We then have::
B,H->j2,d3.

Now finally let's suppose Jon plays B and Dany plays NH. In this case Jon's payoff is at least 0 and probably a bit lower cause he gets screwed and he and the North still gets creamed, accordingly will say it’s like -1 and Dany gets c (similar to when Jon played NB). So we have:

B,NH->-1,c

Now Jon's payoff structure is j1>j2>0>-1

Now if you think d2>c, making Dany’s payoff structure look like d3>d2>c then best play for Jon to make is not to bend. And the reason is because Dany is still better off helping, than not helping. And in fact, her threats of not helping aren’t credible (again, I’m assuming full information and rationality, in the sense both parties are looking to maximize their payoffs).

I’m not saying this is “the” model of the situation here. I’m rather suggesting it’s “a” model. And considering this, it’s not clear to me that Jon does have to bend.

The fact of the matter is that Jon does have good reasons about being leery of re-committing the Starks and the North to the Targaryens. I mean let’s just suppose that Dany hadn’t made it, and crazy old Viserys showed up with Dragons. Would anybody, at least sane people, think that Jon should just drop to his knees before Viserys. No they wouldn’t or at least sane people wouldn’t. And since Jon doesn’t really know Dany, before she got to Westeros, it’s at least reasonable for him to feel her out to make sure she isn’t really crazy and cruel like her daddy.

And even though I get that lots of people really like Dany, there are issues here of national rights of self determination and the rights of people to separate themselves, permanently, from tyrants that rule them. I’m not sure why the North is somehow really obligated to follow Targaryens after Aerys. Of course I am not saying either that the best course of action is for the North to attempt to remain independent forever. It’s possible that they would be better off rejoining the Seven Kingdoms under Dany, so long as they can be reasonably certain she’s not a nut or won’t turn into a nut and if one of her progeny turns into a nut, they have reasonable means to protect themselves from any future nuttery. What I am saying though is I don’t particularly see the need for Jon to just flop down on the ground the moment he meets Dany or that he should just cave in when Dany tries to muscle him.

Okay, you killed me. Game theory is a blatantly basic way to try to predict human behavior, there are billions of factors it's unable to model. Everything that requires mathematical thinking makes my skin crawl and I barely passed that subject with a C. It was almost as bad as Maths I and II or Stats I and II... Ugh, no game theory for me. 

Daenerys is going to help Jon because they will fall for each other and then bending the knee issue will be elminated either by marriage or somebody's death or finding out they are aunt/nephew. 

The north is definitely better off as part of the seven kingdoms because anybody in the south can impose custom duty on them and make them pay up or figure out how they eat. Not sure the north is the most fertile part of the continent. They will also need resources from the south to make the north habitable after they (hopefully) defeat the WW. #norxit they should bend the knee and stay. 

[OldGimletEye]

5 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Okay, you killed me. Game theory is a blatantly basic way to try to predict human behavior, there are billions of factors it's unable to model. 

You're right about this. But, it is helpful in organizing one's thoughts about the matter. And as I said, I didn't say it was "the" model, but "a" model. Though, I'd submit it's not a complete ass pull either. Just trying to bring a little more clarity to the situation.

5 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Daenerys is going to help Jon because they will fall for each other and then bending the knee issue will be elminated either by marriage or somebody's death or finding out they are aunt/nephew. 

And you're right about this too most likely. Ultimately this will not turn on geopolitical factors, nor game theory, but more likely, from Jon's perspective, "uh she's pretty hot."

5 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

The north is definitely better off as part of the seven kingdoms because anybody in the south can impose custom duty on them and make them pay up or figure out how they eat. Not sure the north is the most fertile part of the continent. They will also need resources from the south to make the north habitable after they (hopefully) defeat the WW. #norxit they should bend the knee and stay. 

And these are all relevant factors to consider from the North's perspective.

I think the North could survive remaining independent. But, there are reasons to think it would be better off re-joining the Seven Kingdoms under the right circumstances.

[RhaenysBee]

6 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

No you're right about this. But, it is helpful in organizing one's thoughts about the matter. And as I said, I didn't say it was "the" model, but "a" model. Though, I'd submit it's not a complete ass pull either. Just trying to bring a little more clarity to the situation.

And you're right about this too most likely. Ultimately this will not turn on geopolitical factors, nor game theory, but more likely, from Jon's perspective, "uh she's pretty hot."

And these are all relevant factors to consider from the North's perspective.

I think the North could survive remaining independent. But, there are reasons to think it would be better off re-joining the Seven Kingdoms under the right circumstances.

Yeah, I know. Simplifying something to understand it is better than not understanding it at all. 

Yeah and that's just cringy. I know it's inevitable but ugh, god any pairing would be better than Jon and Daenerys. 

Sure, there's always a pro and a con side to everything. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

10 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

 

The north is definitely better off as part of the seven kingdoms because anybody in the south can impose custom duty on them and make them pay up or figure out how they eat. Not sure the north is the most fertile part of the continent. They will also need resources from the south to make the north habitable after they (hopefully) defeat the WW. #norxit they should bend the knee and stay. 

I personally think a referendum should be held, and the people of the North should get to vote if they want to stay part of the Seven Kingdoms or not.

I can imagine Nigel Farage storming down the halls of Winterfell at the end of the season, waving miniature flags with the Stark Direwolf embroidered on them, screaming 'Make the North great again!'

Oh, wait...that's Trump's slogan, isn't it? Oh, well. Free the North! #Nexit

[RhaenysBee]

Just now, JordanJH1993 said:

I personally think a referendum should be held, and the people of the North should get to vote if they want to stay part of the Seven Kingdoms or not.

I can imagine Nigel Farage storming down the halls of Winterfell at the end of the season, waving miniature flags with the Stark Direwolf embroidered on them, screaming 'Make the North great again!'

Oh, wait...that's Trump's slogan, isn't it? Oh, well. Free the North! #Nexit

Daenerys wants to make Westeros great again, so definitely free the north. Nexit? I don't know how I feel about that... how about Noxit? 

[Johan Wehtje]

22 hours ago, Thor Odinson said:

He absolutely shouldn't. Daenerys is starting to comprehend the threat, and yet she puts her own desire for ruling the Seven Kingdoms above the wellbeing of the people within the Seven Kingdoms. And not just the North, but ALL the Seven Kingdoms, because the White Walkers certainly won't stop at the Neck. She has some nerve talking about pride when she refuses to do the right thing because of her own personal pride. Hell, even Stannis put aside his personal pride to do what needed to be done. Instead, the options Daenerys is presenting him with are "Serve me or I'll let the White Walkers kill you." There's nothing good or noble about leveraging the oncoming extinction of the human race for your own personal gain.

The show hasn't done a great job of explaining it but Dany is also in a dilemma, and I think Tyrion was bang on when he told Jon that his demands were unreasonable, and Sansa also pointed out that he was blind to the threat in the South. As long as the south remains in chaos or under Cersei there can be little that the South can do to aid the North. In addition Dany is as much a chosen Queen as Jon is turning her forces northwards to aid a kingdom that holds itself apart will be a tough sell, doing so whilst Cersei consolidates her grip and then proceeds to marshal her forces to attack the North in the rear would be crazy. Trying to get the other kingdoms united to help the North when the North doesn't aknowledge the Iron throne would be fatal to united Westerosi effort. The only institution left capable of uniting Westeros to defend itself is the Iron throne, and Jon can't call on a united Westeros if at the same time he lets Northern Parochialism undermine the only thing that could unite the effort. I really don't think that Dany is leveraging oncoming extinction, it's just that she is also operating under her own constraints and responsibilities. The fact is that Dany has come far further along seeing things from Jon's perspective than Jon has seeing things from hers. 

[Mikkel]

26 minutes ago, Johan Wehtje said:

Dany is as much a chosen Queen as Jon is

No, she's chosen by her people, maybe, but those are not the people she wants to rule, she wants to rule a whole continent she never set foot on before she invaded it.

Jon has no designs on the Iron Throne, he even seems to dislike being King in the North, but he does it out of necessity.

[Johan Wehtje]

15 hours ago, Lord Godric said:

Dany's pride you mean? Jon isn't doing this out of a sense of pride, he's being practical. He can't just bend the knee and expect the lords of the North to follow Dany, because to them she is a foreign ruler, the daughter of a mad deposed king who killed their former Lord. Jon has no pride in this moment. It is Dany that is continually being obnoxiously proud.

I hope that the show is leading us to a point where Dany realizes that she is no better than Cersei if she doesn't protect the people she wants to rule. My main criticism of Dany all along has been that she has done nothing to earn her rule. She just thinks she is entitled to it. If she turns her back on taking the Iron Throne immediately, if she decides that she must put aside her pride and safe the people and earn their support. Then finally she will show she is worthy. I hope that's where the show is going, but I'm not certain that it is. 

Done Nothing to earn her rule? Her entire justification for staying in Essos when things got tough was that there would be no reason for anyone in Westeros to accept her rule if she couldn't demonstrate her fitness in essos. By the time she left she had shutdown the greater part of the slave trade, liberated millions, and even left a part of her army behind with the sole purpose to smooth the transition to self rule without backsliding to slavery. In addition she has turned the Dothraki towards a different purpose than their usual city sacking, slave raiding and general mass rapine and pillaging - itself a pretty big achievement.  5 seasons of Dany's storyline has been about her learning and doing the things that would make her a good ruler - what show were you watching?  

[Gala]

16 minutes ago, Johan Wehtje said:

The show hasn't done a great job of explaining it but Dany is also in a dilemma, and I think Tyrion was bang on when he told Jon that his demands were unreasonable, and Sansa also pointed out that he was blind to the threat in the South. As long as the south remains in chaos or under Cersei there can be little that the South can do to aid the North. In addition Dany is as much a chosen Queen as Jon is turning her forces northwards to aid a kingdom that holds itself apart will be a tough sell, doing so whilst Cersei consolidates her grip and then proceeds to marshal her forces to attack the North in the rear would be crazy. Trying to get the other kingdoms united to help the North when the North doesn't aknowledge the Iron throne would be fatal to united Westerosi effort. The only institution left capable of uniting Westeros to defend itself is the Iron throne, and Jon can't call on a united Westeros if at the same time he lets Northern Parochialism undermine the only thing that could unite the effort. I really don't think that Dany is leveraging oncoming extinction, it's just that she is also operating under her own constraints and responsibilities. The fact is that Dany has come far further along seeing things from Jon's perspective than Jon has seeing things from hers. 

Frankly, there won't be anything to rule if the North falls. Dany and Cersei are playing the game of thrones, Jon is not.
I think that both of these queens and the whole realm do not really understand the threat.
I presume that is precisely the reason why the northerners are different, they seem to be happy to live their lives in the North (Ned did), the Starks are not made to play the game of thrones - they are too good and too decent for that crap. After all mostly only the northerners help the Night's Watch and among the northern families it is still an honour to be a brother of the NW. The rest of the realm considers NW as the place for unwanted people (criminals, people like Sam).
To be fair, in the big picture - threat in the South (aka Cersei) is nothing comparing to the NK and his army and Sansa didn't see the AoD, so to her that particular threat is unrealistic one as well. I also doubt that Lannisters army would even be able to deal with the northerners during winter on their territory.
Jon came and warned Dany of a bigger threat, now he should go back and prepare and let those two to deal with their quarrel.

[Johan Wehtje]

9 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

No, she's chosen by her people, maybe, but those are not the people she wants to rule, she wants to rule a whole continent she never set foot on before she invaded it.

Jon has no designs on the Iron Throne, he even seems to dislike being King in the North, but he does it out of necessity.

It was her people I was referring to - Dothraki, Unsullied and assorted Essosi and Westerosi retainers. Her hold over them is stronger than Jon's on the north, but they came to put Dany on the Iron throne, not march into a frozen wasteland to fight an enemy they think is fictitious. The very reason her hold is so strong is that she has proven herself in essos.

Jon is in a hard place, and so is Dany - I think that D&D have done a pretty good job of showing that this is a real dilemma for both, with an obvious solution perhaps.