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Jcat

A Wight for Cersei? Seriously?

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In a world that we have a scenario like that:

Jon: My brother that sees things is telling me that a huge army of the dead, that is so powerful that can destroy the whole seven kingdoms is approaching...

Tyrion: Wait, isn't your brother dead?

Jon: This is the other one, I actually didn't know that he was at winterfell but this is not the question now...

Danny: Ok so proceed.. As far you are telling me you need me because this Army is SO POWERFULL that you can't defeat them with all armies in the North... so whats your plan?

Jon: Well, my plan is me and 6 other people go there, where the entire army is heading to and we capture one of them so people will believe that this is real...

Danny: So... you and other 6 people will go by yourselves, to encounter an Army that can defeat easily 10,000 northmen, and  you guys alone will capture one of them?  WOW THAT"S MAKE A LOT OF SENSE!!!! Go and take my old friend that was just cured from an incurable disease and I was just reunited with him... since it will make a lot of difference (of course 7 fighters is very different than 6....). I know that he is the only one in my camp that has some idea in how to command an entire Army but I guess this is not important.

Tyrion: I am sure that my Sister after seeing a Zombie will embrace the cause and will fight together with us.... because deep inside she is very reasonable.. by the way the pet zombie that she has, is only for protection...

You can assume that anything can make sense

 

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56 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

 

Yeah right.  It's all going to go real smooth.  You'll see.  What me worry?

54 minutes ago, Gendry_Goldeneyes said:

literally the dumbest plot device ever

 

love the idea of this team, but hate the motivations putting this team together

they're literally going to kill off most of them im sure too

I also like the GoT magnificent seven (plus some Wilding canonfodder), but I agree it is hard to get behind their mission because it is so seemingly pointless and stupid.

Maybe because the mission is such an improbably boneheaded caper, the White Walkers will be totally caught off guard, and Jon will unexpectedly learn something else important to defeating the Night King?

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Many have talked about the stupidity of the plan to go an capture the wight. What annoyed me intensly was the decision the war can be paused just so Cersei can stay around longer for the show runners, for there is NO other reason that the show has shown us.

In a rational world (like the one we inhabited in the first seasons) after destroying most of Cersei's army in battle Dany would go on and either besiege KL or assault it quickly if it is not strongly defended enough. Pausing only gives time for Cersei to rebuild her army, it doesn't save lives, it doesn't serve any logical purpose within the confines of the show.

It is by some way the most stupid thing they have ever done.

Looking at it from another perspective, that of how the story could work in the context of fitting the remaining story into seasons, then this season should be the battle against Cersei (with maybe the NK appearing toward the end) and next season focused solely on the NK. If we enter the next season with Cersei still around (which now looks likely) it will be a shockingly bad decision. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Iotun said:

By the way, having just re-watched the episode, one minor thing that also bugged me is how the army of the dead is apparently a short raven's fly away from the wall - and yet following multiple journey's up and down Westeros, they'll still not manage to arrive at the Wall.

 

Actually this is the one thing I don't have a problem with.

They are not a mindless horde but under the control of a powerful intelligence and one who apparently has lived for centuries. While he waits tens of thousands of well trained soldiers have died in battle and large amounts of food stores have been destroyed. Also each day that passes the long night gets closer.

 

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3 minutes ago, JagLover said:

Many have talked about the stupidity of the plan to go an capture the wight. What annoyed me intensly was the decision the war can be paused just so Cersei can stay around longer for the show runners, for there is NO other reason that the show has shown us.

In a rational world (like the one we inhabited in the first seasons) after destroying most of Cersei's army in battle Dany would go on and either besiege KL or assault it quickly if it is not strongly defended enough. Pausing only gives time for Cersei to rebuild her army, it doesn't save lives, it doesn't serve any logical purpose within the confines of the show.

It is by some way the most stupid thing they have ever done.

Looking at it from another perspective, that of how the story could work in the context of fitting the remaining story into seasons, then this season should be the battle against Cersei (with maybe the NK appearing toward the end) and next season focused solely on the NK. If we enter the next season with Cersei still around (which now looks likely) it will be a shockingly bad decision. 

 

 

 

Apart from the awesome Field of Fire 2.0 this new war for Westros is pretty freaking lame.  I mean what are they calling this one--the War of the Two Queens?  I agree with many who have commented on the fact there are much better ways to isolate or incapacitate Cersei, then expecting to be able to reason with and strike an agreement that she would actually honor.  In any case, I feel pretty confident in predicting Cersei will drag her sorry ass into season 8.  Shame.

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Is the Wight for Cerise a worse plot development/more jumping the shark than Arya's training resolution with the unstab, undeath and un-no-one? And, are either worse than the Sandsnakes?

These 3 things - Sandsakes fight scene, Cersie Wights and Jaquen accepting Arya as being no-one are the 3 times I believe I have ranked episodes less than 6. I cannot work out which is the worst?

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7 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I suggested to my husband that they kill Baeric and let him become their pet wight.  However based on the fact that people don't turn into wights south of the Wall, my expectation is that the wights would actually die once they get south..

But there is I believe an inconsistency regarding the wights.  In season 1, the corpse of a ranger was reanimated within the grounds of castle black, right?  But Benjen couldn't return to CB because of the magic that is in the wall, and he's not even a full wight.  Anyone have any ideas about that?

Different magic between benjen and vanilla wights.

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9 hours ago, nymeria_2321 said:

Well they don't explicitly say one way or the other how it works but they sure seemed to think it necessary to burn every single dead body around the wall for the last few years, almost burned Jon. And the NW brother ghost found way back in season 1 that they brought in and tried to kill lord commander seemed to come back to life on its own, didn't need a white walker around, and  I doubt it could be that they need to be like killed by a wigt or white walker or anything because that wigt's body was right near the wall/by the nearby weirwood and I'd be surprised if a WW had been hanging outside castle black that long ago. 

Wasn't that so the Others couldn't raise them?

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6 hours ago, JagLover said:

Many have talked about the stupidity of the plan to go an capture the wight. What annoyed me intensly was the decision the war can be paused just so Cersei can stay around longer for the show runners, for there is NO other reason that the show has shown us.

In a rational world (like the one we inhabited in the first seasons) after destroying most of Cersei's army in battle Dany would go on and either besiege KL or assault it quickly if it is not strongly defended enough. Pausing only gives time for Cersei to rebuild her army, it doesn't save lives, it doesn't serve any logical purpose within the confines of the show.

It is by some way the most stupid thing they have ever done.

Looking at it from another perspective, that of how the story could work in the context of fitting the remaining story into seasons, then this season should be the battle against Cersei (with maybe the NK appearing toward the end) and next season focused solely on the NK. If we enter the next season with Cersei still around (which now looks likely) it will be a shockingly bad decision. 

I think you're right about this "pause on the war" decision being about cutting the show into seasons.

1.  They want a human bad guy for the final season (in addition to the non-human ones).  Cersei is the best choice because Euron is not developed really and is not important enough and all the others are dead.  I kinda get where they're coming from here.  Some viewers are watching for the fantasy elements (dragons, WW, etc.) and others for the political machinations and keeping Cersei makes sure both groups continue to be interested

2.  They want time for Cersei's pregnancy to complete so that she can do something awful to the child and Jaime can kill her.  (See other thread about Cersei's pregnancy.)

3.  They want to keep one of their better actors on the show.  Lena Headey IMO has been killing it as Cersei, even though she doesn't really look like the book Cersei.

In order to do this, they had to come up with a way to pause the Wo2Q.  Otherwise, unless Cersei managed to kill a dragon or two, there's no way she would survive more than 2 episodes.  I guess she could be defeated by Dany and Co. but be kept alive due to her pregnancy, but a Cersei without power behind her would be somewhat useless as a character.

If they felt they had to pause the war, I wish they'd done so in a better way.  But there it is!

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On 14. 8. 2017 at 11:05 AM, goomba said:

I thought i was the only one that thought this was stupid. I guess the writers thought that this is the best way to show the urgency of the threat the wights pose to everyone.

I apologize if someone has mentioned it before in this thread but imo this is done only for Cersei to get her hands on undead at which point Qyburn will study how to make more, to make Cersei a new and better army to even odds with Daenerys.

Ofc after Jaime finds out about this New "bomb" od hers, he will finally understand just how fucked up his sister is and strangle her. 

Edit: I don't think she is pregnant, it could very well be a manipulative effort to 'connect' with Jaime again.

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Why don't they use bait to find a single wight like with Craster?  However I guess that goes out the window now that all the dead are marching together. 

 

That's what's really stupid. If the dead were still disorganized the plan becomes less stupid (though still insane and desperate). But how are 7 guys gonna do shit against an entire army? 

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5 hours ago, ummester said:

Is the Wight for Cerise a worse plot development/more jumping the shark than Arya's training resolution with the unstab, undeath and un-no-one? And, are either worse than the Sandsnakes?

These 3 things - Sandsakes fight scene, Cersie Wights and Jaquen accepting Arya as being no-one are the 3 times I believe I have ranked episodes less than 6. I cannot work out which is the worst?

I would rate Wight for Cersei as the second dumbest thing this show has ever done behind having Sandra go to Winterfell and marry Ramsey. The ramifications of that bullshit have messed up so many characters and plot lines since then. But give Wight for Cersei some time. By the end of season 8, it may fuck up even more.

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21 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Why don't they use bait to find a single wight like with Craster?  However I guess that goes out the window now that all the dead are marching together. 

 

That's what's really stupid. If the dead were still disorganized the plan becomes less stupid (though still insane and desperate). But how are 7 guys gonna do shit against an entire army? 

Just wait until the Balrog comes. Who will be the one to not let it past?

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8 hours ago, JagLover said:

Actually this is the one thing I don't have a problem with.

They are not a mindless horde but under the control of a powerful intelligence and one who apparently has lived for centuries. While he waits tens of thousands of well trained soldiers have died in battle and large amounts of food stores have been destroyed. Also each day that passes the long night gets closer.

 

Interesting, Jaglover. That raises a question: does the NK know what is going on south of the wall? If so, how? Does he have visions, like Bran? Wargs? I can't imagine he has spies.

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Going to capture a wight to prove their existence isn't all that bad of an idea. It is the circumstances that it came up in that have made it a bad idea.

Jon needed to go to Daenerys to try to convince her of the army of the dead, so why didn't he think that maybe bringing back some proof would be helpful? He could have gone North of the wall, got a wight, brought it down to Dragonstone, convinced Daenerys and made the short journey from Dragonstone to King's Landing with the same wight to convince Cersei. But that would be too simple and wouldn't set it up for the possibility that Dany may come North of the wall with her dragons to save Jon, who she is now in love with. But, of course, in a cave in Dragonstone, the CotF had drawn lovely pictures of the Others just in case someone ever needed proof they existed.

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

I would rate Wight for Cersei as the second dumbest thing this show has ever done behind having Sandra go to Winterfell and marry Ramsey. The ramifications of that bullshit have messed up so many characters and plot lines since then. But give Wight for Cersei some time. By the end of season 8, it may fuck up even more.

 

Ohhh, you sweet summer child. Let me fix that for you.

By the end of the next episode, it might fuck up even more.

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21 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

 

Ohhh, you sweet summer child. Let me fix that for you.

By the end of the next episode, it might fuck up even more.

:lol:

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On 8/14/2017 at 11:05 AM, goomba said:

I thought i was the only one that thought this was stupid. I guess the writers thought that this is the best way to show the urgency of the threat the wights pose to everyone.

Me and my wife had a lot of laughing when they spoke about it...

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