Cat the Most selfish Women in all the seven Kingdoms

[Pikachu101]

Oh goodie another "Cat is the worst person in the series!!!" threads 

Selfish is when you put your needs above others, Cat has never done this 

[Pikachu101]

21 hours ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

I really want to know what the people in this thread will do if their husband/wife brings son to live together after being separated for one year.

 

Exactly! Listen people if Cat was replaced with any of your faves Jon would've been dead by now, especially if your fave is a man. 

[devilish]

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This couldn't be less true.  Catelyn loves her children.  Cersei loves herself, and sees her kids as an extension of herself.  How many times does Cersei express pride in her children, or joy at their accomplishments?  She calls Myrcella pretty, which is about as nice as it gets.

Of course, motivations matter, as do results.  Cersei has no idea why what she's doing could be stupid, and is blithely dismissive of claims to the contrary.  Catelyn is making a hard choice in an attempt to save her family.  Bad decision?  Sure.  But reasons matter.  Plus, Cat's decision will end up helping her girls, whereas Cersei's has done a lot to erode her own power.

Both love their children and both are cursed with little intelligence + 'they know best' mentality which makes them extremely dangerous. I don't like Cersei (who does?). There again may I remind you that Cersei wasn't the one who kidnapped a Stark in total disregard that her husband is literally surrounded by them. The lioness didn't commit treason against her son by releasing his no 1 hostage on some stupid promise made by a Lannister whom, few months before, she wanted to execute.

There's a reason why Ned never told her anything about Jon's origins. The girl is dumb and would throw anyone under the bridge if she needs to.

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We have zero evidence she did anything of the sort.  Littlefinger remembers having sex with Lysa as having sex with Catelyn.  That's the extent of her "driving him crazy".

LF can be accused of many things but he ain't stupid let alone suicidal. He wouldn't have gone so far if Cat didn't showed any interest to him. 

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You really don't understand the politics involved, it seems.  It is Rickard Stark who is eager for the alliance, and then Ned/Jon Arryn, not Hoster.  Hoster Tully has the upper hand, which is why when Brandon dies, his price (in terms of his alleigance) goes from marrying Cat off, to marrying her AND "soiled-goods" Lysa as well, to the eventual #2 guy in the realm.

Seriously? Hoster couldn't even keep his own house in order let alone having the upper hand on Rickard. Brynden did what he wanted and got away with it, the Freys did what they wanted and got away with it, LF had sex with his daughter under his own roof and got away with it. The moment a decent general walked in the Riverlands with an army everything went tits up and some wolf pup had to come to the rescue. The Tully's are weak LPs, rulers of a weak and divided land. Hoster's only strategy for that is to whore his daughters in exchange of much needed protection.

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Catelyn hates Jon because he is a direct threat to her children.  She doesn't resent him because he's alive, she resents him because he's in Winterfell.  He's older than her kids, looks more like a Stark, and Ned is making a political statement by allowing him to live in Winterfell and not off in some random place.Likewise,Cersei never expresses hatred for Robert's bastards.  She hates Robert for being a lecherous drunk, but not his kids.  She has Robert's bastards killed because they have better claims to the throne than her own kids, not because she has some perverse hatred of them

Jon is of no threat to her children. He's a well educated bastard who love his half brothers and half sisters intensely and he knows his place. Cat hates him because he's a clear testament that Ned might have prefered another woman to her and therefore she's not that special at all. Same with Cersei when Bob whispered Lyanna in her ear. Ulimately women in the medieval mindset were nothing but breeding cows. That's a role with giant egos like Cat and Cersei couldn't accept.

May I remind you that Jon wasn't the one who caused the amnety between the Lannisters and the Starks by kidnapping Tyrion. Jon wasn't the one who released Jamie either. The former caused Ned's injury, the latter fast-tracked the Karstark's treason. What Jon did was to break his vows to try to rescue Arya. That caused his death. So really, who loves the Starks the most?

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What made Cersei feel powerful was that Robert was a lazy idiot who couldn't be bothered with the day to day of running a kingdom, or dispensing of patronage properly, which means Cersei got the opportunity to put her supporters in power, which means she was quite powerful.  Feudalism is about proximity to the person of the king, and as Robert himself says, he's surrounded by Lannisters.

 

 

 

What made Cersei powerful was Robert's absence in everything that matters. Cat didn't took that route up because Ned kept her on a short leach in Winterfell. The moment Ned moved South, Cat went bonkers by kidnapping Tyrion on the most ridiculous of accusations and by taking him to the Vale to have him executed. Lysa had nothing to do with Tyrion's 'crimes' (crime wasn't done at the Vale, Tyrion wasn't captured at the Vale and the heir to CR should be judged by a king) and yet Cat took matters in her own hands. 

[devilish]

5 hours ago, cgrav said:

Their intense care for their children is about where the similarity ends. Beyond that I'm not sure you could find two characters more opposed.

Cersei is obsessed with her own personal power and status. Her attachments to other people are based entirely on their ability to validate her narcissism. She makes rash, drunken decisions with terrible consequences. She manipulates and coerces people to do her bidding, knowing they'll be hurt or killed. Only Littlefinger might have more clinical symptoms of psychopathy, and he's certainly less reckless about it.

I beg to differ. They both think that they are more intelligent then they actually are, their intrusion on matters they have little knowledge about end up having massive consequences towards their loved ones + they both have one hell of a giant ego/pride which makes them do crazy things. The only difference is that while Ned kept his wife under control for most of her life, Robert did not. However, one Cat was on the loose she caused massive damage to her own family out of pure stupidity. The same can be said of Cersei.

 

[Ser Petyr Parker]

6 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Catelyn never mistreated Jon, Ned wouldn't have let it happen anyways. She just never warmed up to Jon and kept him at a distance. She said she didn't have a problem with Ned fathering a child with another woman, but resented the child growing up in front of her in the castle. 

While this view is by no means justified, considering the society they lived in, it is at least understandable. And Ned's reluctance to talk about Jon's mother made things worse.

Cat's dislike of Jon was irrational, but human beings are often irrational.

When Bran is in a coma and likely to die, Jon is leaving for the Night's Watch and wants to say goodbye to Bran, perhaps for the last time. Cat refuses to let him see Bran at first, then eventually relents, but finishes by telling Jon that he should be the one at death's door instead. She doesn't even say it in anger - it's cold blooded and unprovoked. She doesn't beat him or lock him up, but she is passively cruel in her coldness to him, and occasionally actively cruel, as in the example I just gave. She has reasons, but they don't come close to excusing her behaviour. 

[SeanF]

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1 hour ago, devilish said:

Both love their children and both are cursed with little intelligence + 'they know best' mentality which makes them extremely dangerous. I don't like Cersei (who does?). There again may I remind you that Cersei wasn't the one who kidnapped a Stark in total disregard that her husband is literally surrounded by them. The lioness didn't commit treason against her son by releasing his no 1 hostage on some stupid promise made by a Lannister whom, few months before, she wanted to execute.

There's a reason why Ned never told her anything about Jon's origins. The girl is dumb and would throw anyone under the bridge if she needs to.

LF can be accused of many things but he ain't stupid let alone suicidal. He wouldn't have gone so far if Cat didn't showed any interest to him. 

Seriously? Hoster couldn't even keep his own house in order let alone having the upper hand on Rickard. Brynden did what he wanted and got away with it, the Freys did what they wanted and got away with it, LF had sex with his daughter under his own roof and got away with it. The moment a decent general walked in the Riverlands with an army everything went tits up and some wolf pup had to come to the rescue. The Tully's are weak LPs, rulers of a weak and divided land. Hoster's only strategy for that is to whore his daughters in exchange of much needed protection.

Jon is of no threat to her children. He's a well educated bastard who love his half brothers and half sisters intensely and he knows his place. Cat hates him because he's a clear testament that Ned might have prefered another woman to her and therefore she's not that special at all. Same with Cersei when Bob whispered Lyanna in her ear. Ulimately women in the medieval mindset were nothing but breeding cows. That's a role with giant egos like Cat and Cersei couldn't accept.

May I remind you that Jon wasn't the one who caused the amnety between the Lannisters and the Starks by kidnapping Tyrion. Jon wasn't the one who released Jamie either. The former caused Ned's injury, the latter fast-tracked the Karstark's treason. What Jon did was to break his vows to try to rescue Arya. That caused his death. So really, who loves the Starks the most?

What made Cersei powerful was Robert's absence in everything that matters. Cat didn't took that route up because Ned kept her on a short leach in Winterfell. The moment Ned moved South, Cat went bonkers by kidnapping Tyrion on the most ridiculous of accusations and by taking him to the Vale to have him executed. Lysa had nothing to do with Tyrion's 'crimes' (crime wasn't done at the Vale, Tyrion wasn't captured at the Vale and the heir to CR should be judged by a king) and yet Cat took matters in her own hands. 

Cersei held a position of absolute power, following the death of her father, and threw it away within months, after a succession of bad decisions.  Catelyn's position was desperate almost from the outset, and steadily got worse, mostly as a result of awful bad luck.

She was right to deduce that the Lannisters were behind the attempt to murder Bran.  She was then led by one of the most powerful ministers in Kings Landing (and a childhood friend) to believe that it was Tyrion who was responsible, rather than Jaime or Joffrey.  Again, she had no reason to disbelieve him.  If I was told by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the presence of the head of MI5, that a particular individual was behind an assassination attempt against a member of my family, I'm sure I'd believe him. 

She then had the bad luck to run into Tyrion at the Crossroads Inn.  She could either arrest him, or let him to continue to Kings Landing, where he'd tell his family that he met Catelyn Stark returning from Kings Landing.  Her decision turned out badly, but it was certainly not an irrational one.  Nor is it fair to say that it caused conflict with the Lannisters.  The cause of conflict was the two attempts to murder Bran.

Ned didn't tell her about Jon's origins, because he'd have been implicating her in high treason if he had done.  And, for sure, if Catelyn had been taken to the Black Cells, and had her own children tortured in front of her, I've no doubt she'd have revealed Jon's identity, as almost any mother would.

 

[cgrav]

5 hours ago, devilish said:

The only difference is that while Ned kept his wife under control for most of her life,

I'm starting to sense you have a view of gender relations that may not line up with how most people are analyzing these characters... I'm really struggling to understand how being independent and strong-willed equates to selfishness or stupidity. The male characters do all kinds of insane things with no such criticism. 

And I would hardly say Cersei was "under control" by Robert. All her children were Jaime's, and she was surrounded by her own family. She had Robert killed. The only thing holding Cersei back was the role of the Queen, which is itself meant to say something about gender and power.

Almost all of the main female characters are written to make us question both the rightness and even factual reality of "man's world" politics. The female characters are every bit as bold, cunning, and mistake-prone as the male characters, yet they get criticized for it while the male one's don't.

[Ran]

4 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

When Bran is in a coma and likely to die, Jon is leaving for the Night's Watch and wants to say goodbye to Bran, perhaps for the last time. Cat refuses to let him see Bran at first, then eventually relents, but finishes by telling Jon that he should be the one at death's door instead. She doesn't even say it in anger - it's cold blooded and unprovoked. She doesn't beat him or lock him up, but she is passively cruel in her coldness to him, and occasionally actively cruel, as in the example I just gave. She has reasons, but they don't come close to excusing her behaviour. 

It's not all cold-blooded, since she breaks down in tears immediately afterward. It is unprovoked, but consider how she is described -- by Jon -- when he enters the room:

 

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Lady Stark was there beside his bed. She had been there, day and night, for close on a fortnight. Not for a moment had she left Bran's side. She had her meals brought to her there, and chamber pots as well, and a small hard bed to sleep on, though it was said she had scarcely slept at all...

Lady Stark looked over. For a moment she did not seem to recognize him. Finally she blinked. "What are you doing here?" she asked in a voice strangely flat and emotionless....

Her face did not change. Her long auburn hair was dull and tangled. She looked as though she had aged twenty years.

She is essentially in the midst of a breakdown over what has happened to Bran. She has strained her mind and body beyond all reason, unable and unwilling to leave his side, unable to sleep, etc.  She's not in her right mind. So what she says or does may, possibly, represent the very ugliest thoughts that ever passed through her head, but they do not represent who Catelyn Stark has been for all of Jon's life. And she knows this: when she comes to after sleeping for several days straight after the attack, she's deeply ashamed by her behavior during that time, which she remembers as if through a fog... and when she thinks of Jon Snow, she feels guilt.

As GRRM said, that situation was singular and extraordinary.

As to the crossroads, the only thing to remember is that she absolutely did _not_ want to have anything to do with Tyrion. She tried to hide from him, in hopes that they could slip out and away before he realized who she was. As SeanF and others indicate, this is a key fact: it means that she seized Tyrion only because she was discovered and she believed that her only recourse was to seize him because the alternatives that she could imagine were worse.

[devilish]

37 minutes ago, cgrav said:

I'm starting to sense you have a view of gender relations that may not line up with how most people are analyzing these characters... I'm really struggling to understand how being independent and strong-willed equates to selfishness or stupidity. The male characters do all kinds of insane things with no such criticism. 

And I would hardly say Cersei was "under control" by Robert. All her children were Jaime's, and she was surrounded by her own family. She had Robert killed. The only thing holding Cersei back was the role of the Queen, which is itself meant to say something about gender and power.

I am referring to the GOT/Medieval mindset, definately not mine. A world were its ok to come home with a bastard and tell your wife to take care of it, force women to have abortions or marry off your daughter to some drunk who can smash things. 

That's create an artificial world for the typical noblewoman to live in. On one hand people like Cersei/Cat are the lady of the house hence feared by everybody. When their husband is at war they are the ruler of the household up until their first born is of age. One the other hand they are too delicate and dandy to learn about warfare, politics, history or decide even the most basics of things like their husband. Their education is mostly about smiling, knitting and acting pretty.

Which is a bit of problem as it creates the perfect ego machine. A person whose a queen in her own land  but who has  absolutely no idea of the consequences her actions will create. That is why Cat saw nothing wrong in arresting the heir to CR and then take him to the Vale to have him killed. Tyrion was a foreigner who tried to hurt her boy, they were both on her daddy's land and since daddy had bubu she took him to her sister's land to have him killed. Same thing about Cersei. What could possibly go wrong with arming a pack of filthy plebs with weapons? If things go wrong the lions will scare them away. 

Usually noble ladies have their mothers to help them out into accepting the situation and allowing them to grow into a role which is primarely in the shadow. God knows how useful it was for Margaery to have Olena around (ok she's her grandmother but you get the grip of it). Unfortunately both Cersei and Cat lost their mother relatively early in life. The former earlier then the latter. Which means that they lack the guidance from someone who knows the game. 

I am pretty sure that if given the same education of her peers Cat would have been a much better leader then Edmure (and probably Hoster) is. Same thing (to a less regard) can be said about Cersei who is the slightest more intelligent out of the twins. But that didnt happen. 

 

 

[desire]

Even in death she still can't get over it and they say lady dustin is bad

[cgrav]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

I am referring to the GOT/Medieval mindset, definately not mine. A world were its ok to come home with a bastard and tell your wife to take care of it, force women to have abortions or marry off your daughter to some drunk who can smash things. 

My criticism is that you seem to buy into this medieval ethic, when I feel it's quite clear that the author is showing us that it's a terrible paradigm and places exceptional burdens on women, particularly those who have to make important decisions. That's why I brought up the Tully words earlier - they represent values that women are expected to uphold, but which frequently come into conflict.

What I see here is a lot of criticism based on things Cat didn't and couldn't know, and her being held to higher expectations than her male counterparts. The only basis for criticism is the presumption that "playing the woman" was a valid or superior choice, even though the circumstances demand leadership.

Yes Robb was King, but it's made very clear that he was woefully unprepared for the role and didn't understand the level of sacrifice required. Would Cat have been a better person if she just played the womanly part and watched Robb fail completely while she stood by in the relative safe of Winterfell? THAT would have been the choice of self interest and preservation.

[Pikachu101]

46 minutes ago, cgrav said:

What I see here is a lot of criticism based on things Cat didn't and couldn't know, and her being held to higher expectations than her male counterparts. 

Would we really be having this conversation if Cat brought home her bastard and expected Ned to put up with it?

I swear to R'holler this thread really brings to light the sexism and double standards in this fandom 

[fiatlux]

5 hours ago, Ran said:

It's not all cold-blooded, since she breaks down in tears immediately afterward. It is unprovoked, but consider how she is described -- by Jon -- when he enters the room:

 

She is essentially in the midst of a breakdown over what has happened to Bran. She has strained her mind and body beyond all reason, unable and unwilling to leave his side, unable to sleep, etc.  She's not in her right mind. So what she says or does may, possibly, represent the very ugliest thoughts that ever passed through her head, but they do not represent who Catelyn Stark has been for all of Jon's life. And she knows this: when she comes to after sleeping for several days straight after the attack, she's deeply ashamed by her behavior during that time, which she remembers as if through a fog... and when she thinks of Jon Snow, she feels guilt.

As GRRM said, that situation was singular and extraordinary.

As to the crossroads, the only thing to remember is that she absolutely did _not_ want to have anything to do with Tyrion. She tried to hide from him, in hopes that they could slip out and away before he realized who she was. As SeanF and others indicate, this is a key fact: it means that she seized Tyrion only because she was discovered and she believed that her only recourse was to seize him because the alternatives that she could imagine were worse.

(my first post here) : this

On a re-read, I even came to the conclusion that given what she knows (or thinks she knows) and what she doesn't know (Tyrion's personality, LF's lies...), she might even have feared for her life (and Ser Rodrick's).

She failed to go unnoticed by a man who embodies the worst threat her family has ever faced (at least, that's what she thinks, it is easy for us readers to dismiss this threat)

As for the rest of her story, the more I re-read, the more I sympathize with her (though not with her southron ambitions at all...)

 

 

[devilish]

4 hours ago, cgrav said:

My criticism is that you seem to buy into this medieval ethic, when I feel it's quite clear that the author is showing us that it's a terrible paradigm and places exceptional burdens on women, particularly those who have to make important decisions. That's why I brought up the Tully words earlier - they represent values that women are expected to uphold, but which frequently come into conflict.

What I see here is a lot of criticism based on things Cat didn't and couldn't know, and her being held to higher expectations than her male counterparts. The only basis for criticism is the presumption that "playing the woman" was a valid or superior choice, even though the circumstances demand leadership.

Yes Robb was King, but it's made very clear that he was woefully unprepared for the role and didn't understand the level of sacrifice required. Would Cat have been a better person if she just played the womanly part and watched Robb fail completely while she stood by in the relative safe of Winterfell? THAT would have been the choice of self interest and preservation.

What GRRM brilliantly portray is the clear flaw in medieval education. Some people who clearly aren't cut for ruling ends up in very high roles mainly because they have a penis. Others take the honourable way to their early grave. People with mental problems end up ruling instead of thrown in a mental hospital, talent like Olena and Margaery Tyrell have to fight not to go in the shadows which is a shame considering that they are among the few with brains, children are massacred for their mistakes, dynasties fall because brilliant daddy couldnt get past that his most brilliant kid is an imp, hordes of living are butchered for some iron seat while the dead are growing strong in numbers. Its an imperfect world which is being lead into ruin. However that's the world GOT is in and we only can judge people from that point of view.

There's a valid and reasonable excuse behind the flaws of most characters in GOT. Gregor Clegane was a child soldier with mental issues (headaches etc) who was shaped to be a weapon of destruction by his master. Cersei was a frustrated spoiled girl who lost the only loving parent she had at quite young age and ended up being used as a pawn by her distant father. She had a loveless childhood (when Joanna died) and a loveless marriage. The only character who can say to be pure evil is Euron Greyjoy.

Having said that, there are a number of mistakes that Cat did which cant be justified. Her 'Family, Duty, Honour' education lead her to kidnap the imp, dragging two regions into war against one of the most powerful regions in Westeros. It also persuaded Robb to commit to a marriage that wasn't good for him and defend a land that Robb simply lacked the men to defend. Lets face it, after Ned's death, Robb could have easily exchanged Jamie for Ned's bones + Sansa and Arya and return home. He was a Stark and whatever happened South to Moat Cailin was the least of his concerns. Yet, he had to remain South of the border to defend Uncle incompetent and his useless region. Meanwhile her lack of education in politics lead her to naively release Jamie which was the only leverage that Robb had to keep the Northern army safe. Those are huge mistakes that cost the North dear.

I don't blame Cat for her mistakes as much as I don't blame Cersei for hers. Ned should have made sure to keep an experienced man behind with the authority and the brains to guide his boy in case something happened to him. Same can be said about Hoster who left behind an utter mess (an incompetent son, a diplomatic mess with one of his strongest bannermen etc) and Tywin (Tyrion had brains but he wasn't the right man for the job (Cersei hated him) + by the time he reached KL it was too late, Ned was killed and Jamie was captured)

 

 

 

 

 

[Whitering]

I didn't like the Cat character and didn't enjoy her chapters, but I wouldn't call her selfish, she was not quite as family first as Cersei, but not too far behind. Cersei is more selfish as she mostly wants everything for herself, even when she argues it's for her kids.

To me Cat was unlikeable, but yep, I wouldn't call her overly selfish.

[Luddagain]

I have been doing a slow and occasional re-read and just this morning one line from Ned while in the dungeon sort of confirmed what I have been thinking for a while.

Ned hated or feared Catelyn. It was pretty hidden from view by GRRM because Ned was thinking painfully of his girls.

Then it says when he thinks of Catelyn it is a bed of nettles. now when we first read it we think he is in pain for his love of her but then again!!

We already have him asking her why she is so cruel.(back in Winterfell re Jon)

Hated is too strong but he certainly had some issues with her.  I recall the very first time we have them together near the heart tree, He addresses her as "My Lady". Not too warm a greeting after 16 years of marriage. Not "my dear," or Cat or Catelyn. Cat always thinks of him as Ned.

[L’Age d’or]

On 8/23/2017 at 1:41 AM, Helen of Troy said:

No, I do not.  She is in the top three but Cersei is at the top of the list, followed closely by Sansa.

Most Selfish Women in the books are (1) Cersei, (2) Sansa, (3) Catelyn, (4) Arya, and (5) Lyanna.

1)  Cersei.  For obvious reasons.

2)  Sansa.  Lied about Micah and the direwolves.  Partly responsible for getting Micah and Lady killed.

3)  Catelyn.  Kidnaps Tyrion.  Released Jaime from captivity.

4) Arya.  Deranged killer.  She murdered people under the pretense of justice. 

5) Lyanna.  Ran away from a sworn engagement and placed her own happiness ahead of the welfare of the many. 

I second this, good recap.

[L’Age d’or]

15 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

Would we really be having this conversation if Cat brought home her bastard and expected Ned to put up with it?

I swear to R'holler this thread really brings to light the sexism and double standards in this fandom 

Ah, look, another women issues and gender inequality talking point brought up to sabotage the discussion. You can't treat a book set in medieval times with today's standards, if Cat had brought home a bastard, she'd be beheaded or thrown into a dungeon at best for the rest of her life. That is not a plausible scenario anyway, because she'd have had it aborted or left it somewhere to hide her shame. 

[mormont]

43 minutes ago, L’Age d’or said:

Ah, look, another women issues and gender inequality talking point brought up to sabotage the discussion. You can't treat a book set in medieval times with today's standards, if Cat had brought home a bastard, she'd be beheaded or thrown into a dungeon at best for the rest of her life. That is not a plausible scenario anyway, because she'd have had it aborted or left it somewhere to hide her shame. 

By the same token, by Westerosi standards what Cat is asked to tolerate by Ned is much worse than any comparable situation in modern life.

Despite what devilish suggests, in Westeros it is 100% not OK to bring home a bastard and ask your wife to take care of it. (Not that this is actually what Ned does. He does not expect Cat to take care of Jon, at least not to take the role of his mother: later, he asks her to take care of him as acting head of the household when he leaves for King's Landing, but that's not the same thing at all.) No other nobleman that we know of does any such thing: very few even bring their bastards into the household. It's not normal.

And even by modern standards, to bring a kid from another relationship into the family is one thing: it's quite another to bring in a kid while refusing point blank, without apology and in an abrupt manner, to answer any questions about who the mother might be or where this child came from. No modern woman would be expected to tolerate that, just as no Westerosi woman would be.

[L’Age d’or]

14 minutes ago, mormont said:

By the same token, by Westerosi standards what Cat is asked to tolerate by Ned is much worse than any comparable situation in modern life.

Despite what devilish suggests, in Westeros it is 100% not OK to bring home a bastard and ask your wife to take care of it. (Not that this is actually what Ned does. He does not expect Cat to take care of Jon, at least not to take the role of his mother: later, he asks her to take care of him as acting head of the household when he leaves for King's Landing, but that's not the same thing at all.) No other nobleman that we know of does any such thing: very few even bring their bastards into the household. It's not normal.

And even by modern standards, to bring a kid from another relationship into the family is one thing: it's quite another to bring in a kid while refusing point blank, without apology and in an abrupt manner, to answer any questions about who the mother might be or where this child came from. No modern woman would be expected to tolerate that, just as no Westerosi woman would be.

He did not ask her to take care of Jon, he was a lord and she was a lady, they don't take care of their children; that's the job of the servants and nannies. What would be not okay in a medieval setting was Ned legitimising Jon which he did not and never even hinted at. That is not to say he could not do it, since the king was his best friend. 

Cat being unkind and cruel to Jon is not unwarranted, it's a natural reaction; I don't think she is selfish or inherently sadistic because of it. But that was not the point of my post and you know it.