Jump to content
averde

The North's Fate

Recommended Posts

Can Jon and company make it to White Harbor before the white walkers? Winterfell? You'd imagine the white walkers split up into their squads/ armies and overrun the north pretty rapidly. Even if they stay as one force they are marching, presumably, south faster than any force marching north. 

My brother made an interesting point after the episode that perhaps this is the reason for the exchange between Jon and Tyrion about the population of Kings Landing outnumbering the whole north, even if everyone in the north falls and gets zombified there are still much larger sources of forces to be called on to fight.

Regardless I think it's safe to assume Bran sounded the alarm and the major characters will evacuate, but that's not really possible for the rest of the population. Last Hearth for example gets hit before the warning letter ravens would even arrive, let alone have time to mobilize an entire population and head south cohesively. 

 

So what do you guys think ? Is the North and her people doomed ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They've already been pulling people, and supplies, south to Winterfell. But I don't think Winterfell (even with Wintertown, even if they could defend that) can hold hundreds of thousands of extra people. Lots of them are going to die. But I think that was always in the cards.

As for Winterfell, I think that, even if the Walkers manage to beat Jon there, the defenses could plausibly hold long enough for him and Dany to show up and lift the siege and have the big battle scene everyone's been waiting for.

Also, how do we know the dead are going to overrun the North as quickly as possible? So far, at every other step, the Night King has been every bit as patient as you'd expect for a guy who's waited 8000 years to start his plan. And, unless he somehow knows that the key defenders all on their way to Winterfell but haven't arrived yet, he's got no particular reason to hurry now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The North is pretty much Frostbitten. It will be overrun by the WW's and the Army of the Dead.
I still think the deciding battle will be at the Trident. It is the last major battle in Roberts Rebellion, where he killed Rhaegar.
Daenarys dreamt of being Rhaegar, fighting at the Trident, but on a dragons back instead of horseback, and the enemy was armed in ice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Winterfell is a special place.

There must "always be a Stark in Winterfell" and when that is the case the White Walkers cannot enter it. 

I think Winterfell will be besieged and main body of the army of the dead will march south. The setup for this on the show is the food stores being relocated there by Sansa.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, averde said:

Can Jon and company make it to White Harbor before the white walkers? Winterfell? You'd imagine the white walkers split up into their squads/ armies and overrun the north pretty rapidly. Even if they stay as one force they are marching, presumably, south faster than any force marching north. 

My brother made an interesting point after the episode that perhaps this is the reason for the exchange between Jon and Tyrion about the population of Kings Landing outnumbering the whole north, even if everyone in the north falls and gets zombified there are still much larger sources of forces to be called on to fight.

Regardless I think it's safe to assume Bran sounded the alarm and the major characters will evacuate, but that's not really possible for the rest of the population. Last Hearth for example gets hit before the warning letter ravens would even arrive, let alone have time to mobilize an entire population and head south cohesively. 

 

So what do you guys think ? Is the North and her people doomed ? 

omg I wwas asking this for a while.... there is not much between The Wall and Winterfell!  I want to know if the Great Battle between the living and the dead will have to happen AT Winterfell.

Because you already have a lot of people at Winterfell just hanging out like The Vale army and all the Norrthern Lords are already there.  It seems to me all the North will flock to Winterfell for protection.  Is WF even large enough to house everyone inside for a protracted siege? 

OR will everyone have to retreat South to find a larger stronghold and fight the Dead Army there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winterfell is a no go for NK. He can surrond it, blockade it but wont attack it. AotD will go south and smah an unpreppared Oldtown. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Winterfell has a magic element to it which will prevent White Walkers from entering but with the new Ice Dragon I fear they can perhaps?? Since the wall itsself was magic and fell to the Dragons flames its safe to assume Winterfells walls wont hold up to that kind of attack as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But does Winterfell have a magic element in the show as opposed to the book? The wall was supposed to be old magic and the NK had no problem simply melting it with his new dragon, which as far as the show is concerned, dragons increase magic and do not diminish it.  So, is the show really going to focus on the magic part of Winterfell when the WWs attack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, averde said:

Can Jon and company make it to White Harbor before the white walkers? Winterfell? You'd imagine the white walkers split up into their squads/ armies and overrun the north pretty rapidly. Even if they stay as one force they are marching, presumably, south faster than any force marching north. 

My brother made an interesting point after the episode that perhaps this is the reason for the exchange between Jon and Tyrion about the population of Kings Landing outnumbering the whole north, even if everyone in the north falls and gets zombified there are still much larger sources of forces to be called on to fight.

Regardless I think it's safe to assume Bran sounded the alarm and the major characters will evacuate, but that's not really possible for the rest of the population. Last Hearth for example gets hit before the warning letter ravens would even arrive, let alone have time to mobilize an entire population and head south cohesively. 

 

So what do you guys think ? Is the North and her people doomed ? 

 

I think Tyrion is worried the Nothern people will think Jon only bent the knee because she has some vagina spell over him.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jorah to Dany: You should fly to Winterfell

Dany: No, I'll sail with Jon.

Winterfell's fate is sealed.

Maybe they'll hold on until Jon & Dany arrive, maybe not. The NK has a dragon too, he could smash Winterfell's walls just the same. I guess it mainly depends on what the NK knows and has foreseen. He lingered all this time beyond the Wall because he knew he needed a dragon. What is his next move? 

Not sure what role Bran will play. I suspect we'll see a Coldhands type intervention, meaning he'll gather all the ravens and other animals, and throw them at the army of the dead to slow them down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

I agree Winterfell has a magic element to it which will prevent White Walkers from entering but with the new Ice Dragon I fear they can perhaps?? Since the wall itsself was magic and fell to the Dragons flames its safe to assume Winterfells walls wont hold up to that kind of attack as well. 

Perhaps many will hide in the crypts to avoid the wight dragon's breath?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going to bet the final battle will be at the Eerie. The most highly fortified and impregnable castle in Westeros. Why would they win on an open battle fied. Much more chances in a high up place were they can burn the dead before they struggle to reach the top. I doubt the dead are very fast at climbing.

Edited by pinoyathletics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An undead dragon that shoots blue plasma? changes the game.  I always thought it would end at the God's eye but that's probably just wishful thinking.  A dragon glass or dragon steel scorpion bolt is really really needed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the north will go down and go down quickly. They have no dragonglass, few if any valyrian steel swords, and no experience fighting this enemy. Jon and Dany will probably not arrive in time and will be forced to retreat south. Undead Viserion is clearly faster than before and if he can burn down part of the wall in a matter of minutes then winterfell will burned in a mater of seconds. I think there will be a big battle at the Trident as per Dany's dream in the books but also that the WW will make it to at least King's Landing and burn down the red keep as per Dany and Bran's visions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, pinoyathletics said:

I am going to bet the final battle will be at the Eerie. The most highly fortified and impregnable castle in Westeros. Why would they win on an open battle fied. Much more chances in a high up place were they can burn the dead before they struggle to reach the top. I doubt the dead are very fast at climbing.

I'm pretty sure the show established that they always completely abandon the Eyrie for the winter, because it's too cold to survive there. Isn't that why Robin is down at Runestone?

Also, the Eyrie only holds hundreds of people, not tens of thousands like the other major castles, and the reason it's impregnable is that it's so hard to reach. So it's a great place if you have a family you need to protect against anything that may come, but not so great if you're trying to defend humanity more generally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the books I think Martin has been subtly preparing us for the Northern half of the North being overrun. Note that all of the lords who have over committed their strength to Robb's army, and then committed even their last dregs to Stannis's army, come from the Northern half of the North. The Umbers, the Karstarks, the Mormonts and Mountain Clans. Martin has made a point of the likes of the Last Hearth and Karhold being down to old men and boys etc.

Meanwhile, the lands from Winterfell southwards appear to be more untapped. I expect Skagos to add to this depopulation of the lands North of Winterfell, by migrating en masse with Rickon soon.

Meaning that Martin has emptied the northernmost North as much as possible, to allow it to fall to the Others and for the front line to move to Winterfell. I don't think White Harbor, Barrowton and the like are going to fall to the Others. I think the "dead lands" will extend down to Winterfell, with Other incursions going south as far as the Riverlands, perhaps. But the entire North won't be overrun. I think Winter will fall where Winter fell the last time. At Winterfell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 9:17 AM, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

The North is pretty much Frostbitten. It will be overrun by the WW's and the Army of the Dead.
I still think the deciding battle will be at the Trident. It is the last major battle in Roberts Rebellion, where he killed Rhaegar.
Daenarys dreamt of being Rhaegar, fighting at the Trident, but on a dragons back instead of horseback, and the enemy was armed in ice.

I think in the books the Army of the Dead would have made it at least to Riverrun.  In the show I think they'll get to at least King's Landing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think in the books the Army of the Dead would have made it at least to Riverrun.  In the show I think they'll get to at least King's Landing.

Haven't you followed the story? Every army available to humanity is heading to Winterfell. Except Cersei's. The big battle is going to be at Winterfell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Jorah to Dany: You should fly to Winterfell

Dany: No, I'll sail with Jon.

Winterfell's fate is sealed.

Maybe they'll hold on until Jon & Dany arrive, maybe not. The NK has a dragon too, he could smash Winterfell's walls just the same. I guess it mainly depends on what the NK knows and has foreseen. He lingered all this time beyond the Wall because he knew he needed a dragon. What is his next move? 

Not sure what role Bran will play. I suspect we'll see a Coldhands type intervention, meaning he'll gather all the ravens and other animals, and throw them at the army of the dead to slow them down.

The Wall is made of Ice.  With the Dragon he wouldn't need to smash the walls down though.

I've long believed the entire North will get over run but Winterfell's fate is an interesting one.  Especially as we now have Sansa, Bran and Arya there.  I don't think Winterfell is going to go down easily.  Or it may even be that the Others don't manage to take Winterfell but do take the rest of the North (hence why we keep being reminded about the amount of food in the Winterfell stores).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28.8.2017 at 6:31 AM, averde said:

Even if they stay as one force they are marching, presumably, south faster than any force marching north. 

I'm pretty sure there is a large time interval between the meeting with Cersei and the destruction of the Wall. So, people coming from the south should already be close to Winterfell when the wights start their march. If this is not the case, we will have a new confirmation of the fact that the capture of the wight was useless, since obviously now nobody needs any proof of their existence anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×