Which Conspiracy Theories Do You Believe In and Why?

[A True Kaniggit]

Well this is obviously a trap. I'll never tell what I know!

[DaveSumm]

10 hours ago, Lordsteve666 said:

My personal favorites are the Flat Earth guys (they have believers all around the globe!), and Chem-trail idiots. The chem-trail guys are really fun to argue with as they clearly have no idea of basic atmospheric physics or how aircraft even work, yet they still persist. 

I have an otherwise intelligent friend who believes in the flat earth stuff. He claims open mindedness with everything, the old "I'm not saying for sure but it's interesting". And then implies you're close minded for dismissing it. This is a man who has visited the US and Australia by plane. 

I looked into it a little though, and found an interesting article that explains the rise of this theory; 1 person believes it, posts a theory online to 10 people. 9 ignore it, 1 finds it hilarious, and reposts to 100 people. 90 ignore it, 10 find it hilarious, and repost to a 1000 people. 900 people ignore it, 99 people find it hilarious ...... but one actually thinks there's something to it. So sure, everyone got a good chuckle out of it, but ultimately the theory has successfully spread. It's the absurdity of it that has spread it, and those mocking it that are doing the work. For each Flat Earth post, the vast vast majority of shares are mocking, and it's reaching a wider and wider audience.

[Free Northman Reborn]

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I have an otherwise intelligent friend who believes in the flat earth stuff. He claims open mindedness with everything, the old "I'm not saying for sure but it's interesting". And then implies you're close minded for dismissing it. This is a man who has visited the US and Australia by plane. 

I looked into it a little though, and found an interesting article that explains the rise of this theory; 1 person believes it, posts a theory online to 10 people. 9 ignore it, 1 finds it hilarious, and reposts to 100 people. 90 ignore it, 10 find it hilarious, and repost to a 1000 people. 900 people ignore it, 99 people find it hilarious ...... but one actually thinks there's something to it. So sure, everyone got a good chuckle out of it, but ultimately the theory has successfully spread. It's the absurdity of it that has spread it, and those mocking it that are doing the work. For each Flat Earth post, the vast vast majority of shares are mocking, and it's reaching a wider and wider audience.

So let's start by saying it boggles my mind how people can believe in that.

With that out of the way, I find it peculiar how passionate people become in debunking the beliefs of others. Let them bloody believe the earth is flat if they wish to. Let the Young Earth Creationists believe what they wish to. Let those who are against vaccines, or against blood transfusions or what have you, believe what they wish to.

As long as they don't try to force their beliefs onto you, leave them to do as they please.

The almost savage satisfaction those who are "enlightened" get out of ripping apart the beliefs of groups who don't conform to the norm is noteworthy in itself. It's almost a kind of Nazism of thought. Even if you know you are right, which you are in this case, why does it bother you (and by you I mean the establishment in general) that others are more ignorant than you?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

26 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

So let's start by saying it boggles my mind how people can believe in that.

With that out of the way, I find it peculiar how passionate people become in debunking the beliefs of others. Let them bloody believe the earth is flat if they wish to. Let the Young Earth Creationists believe what they wish to. Let those who are against vaccines, or against blood transfusions or what have you, believe what they wish to.

As long as they don't try to force their beliefs onto you, leave them to do as they please.

The almost savage satisfaction those who are "enlightened" get out of ripping apart the beliefs of groups who don't conform to the norm is noteworthy in itself. It's almost a kind of Nazism of thought. Even if you know you are right, which you are in this case, why does it bother you (and by you I mean the establishment in general) that others are more ignorant than you?

Anti-Vaccers end up hurting more than themselves and their kids.  They weaken herd immunity by refusing to vaccinate.

As for flat-Earthers and Young Earth Creationists they affect others by using the political system to attempt to have their crazy beliefs taught as fact in schools.

[TrueMetis]

30 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

So let's start by saying it boggles my mind how people can believe in that.

With that out of the way, I find it peculiar how passionate people become in debunking the beliefs of others. Let them bloody believe the earth is flat if they wish to. Let the Young Earth Creationists believe what they wish to. Let those who are against vaccines, or against blood transfusions or what have you, believe what they wish to.

As long as they don't try to force their beliefs onto you, leave them to do as they please.

No, because they will try to force their belief on others. They always do, whether it be strangers or their children and that's just not acceptable.

[DMC]

16 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Anti-Vaccers end up hurting more than themselves and their kids.  They weaken herd immunity by refusing to vaccinate.

Yeah that is a direct public health issue.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Yeah, I just find it interesting, that's all.

We benevolently let the guys who live in the jungles of Borneo or in the depths of the Amazon put a bone through the noses of their kids, or let some tribes bind the skulls of their youngsters to elongate them according to tradition. But because someone happens to live within one's own society, suddenly their beliefs require our approval?

Just leave people to face the consequences  of their own decisions. You don't have to think for others. You are not their keepers.

[TrueMetis]

4 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yeah, I just find it interesting, that's all.

We benevolently let the guys who live in the jungles of Borneo or in the depths of the Amazon put a bone through the noses of their kids, or let some tribes bind the skulls of their youngsters to elongate them according to tradition. But because someone happens to live within one's own society, suddenly their beliefs require our approval?

Just leave people to face the consequences  of their own decisions. You don't have to think for others. You are not their keepers.

I like how you mentioned kids and then say the "consequences of their own decisions" when the kids getting the consequences aren't deciding anything. Though the few tribes I know of that do the bone piercing thing don't do it to kids, it's a passage into adulthood thing and done to older teens who can yes decide on their own. Not aware of anyone still doing the skull binding thing, but that would have to be on kids and I would be against that. Much like I'm against say, FGM.

See if this shit is happening it's not so much "benevolently letting them" as it is "what the fuck am I supposed to do?"

 

[Isalie]

Does this mean it's time for a new circumcision thread?

Seriously though, it's great fun (and interesting) to read this thread, so keep it up.

I'm not well versed enough in the subject to believe any conspiracy theories, though the amount of people in this thread talking about JFK is enough to make me want to read up on it (if I had the time).

Btw, does believing that Juve are cheating scum cunt? Or is that just an established fact?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

36 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yeah, I just find it interesting, that's all.

We benevolently let the guys who live in the jungles of Borneo or in the depths of the Amazon put a bone through the noses of their kids, or let some tribes bind the skulls of their youngsters to elongate them according to tradition. But because someone happens to live within one's own society, suddenly their beliefs require our approval?

Just leave people to face the consequences  of their own decisions. You don't have to think for others. You are not their keepers.

Anti-Vaccers affect more than just themselves and their kids.  That’s the point.

[Free Northman Reborn]

7 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Anti-Vaccers affect more than just themselves and their kids.  That’s the point.

Random example, but sure. Maybe let's return to Flat Earthers then, which started my idle meander down this train of thought. Anyway, no big deal. Not a life or death matter, so no worries. Just think that there seems to be an underlying fervor bordering on a kind of implied shared imperative to educate the ignorant. Whereas I say, let them be ignorant, if it makes  them happy.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Random example, but sure. Maybe let's return to Flat Earthers then, which started my idle meander down this train of thought. Anyway, no big deal. Not a life or death matter, so no worries. Just think that there seems to be an underlying fervor bordering on a kind of implied shared imperative to educate the ignorant. When I say, let them be ignorant, if it makes  them happy.

 

I’m cool with that until they try to force their crap be taught in schools.

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Let them bloody believe the earth is flat if they wish to. Let the Young Earth Creationists believe what they wish to. Let those who are against vaccines, or against blood transfusions or what have you, believe what they wish to.

As long as they don't try to force their beliefs onto you, leave them to do as they please.

The almost savage satisfaction those who are "enlightened" get out of ripping apart the beliefs of groups who don't conform to the norm is noteworthy in itself. It's almost a kind of Nazism of thought. Even if you know you are right, which you are in this case, why does it bother you (and by you I mean the establishment in general) that others are more ignorant than you?

Well, I think you have a point. Some people do get a satisfaction out of it, maybe I do. But you've picked some bizarre examples to make your point; anti-vaccination thinking has lead to deaths. Refusing blood transfusions has lead to deaths. So it bothers me because this ignorance has caused real suffering in the world. Granted, I don't see the immediate danger of Flat Earthers, but I hate to see this friend of mine descend into post-factual thinking. If he can believe that, he can easily believe vaccinations do more harm than good.

Maybe people speaking up for reason has saved lives? Maybe a Jehovahs Witness was convinced, and chose to save their children's lives? Maybe an anti-vaccinator was convinced, and vaccinated their children? I'm not trying to claim anything so lofty for myself, but I think there's a real value in standing up for truth, reason, and evidence.

[Free Northman Reborn]

8 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Well, I think you have a point. Some people do get a satisfaction out of it, maybe I do. But you've picked some bizarre examples to make your point; anti-vaccination thinking has lead to deaths. Refusing blood transfusions has lead to deaths. So it bothers me because this ignorance has caused real suffering in the world. Granted, I don't see the immediate danger of Flat Earthers, but I hate to see this friend of mine descend into post-factual thinking. If he can believe that, he can easily believe vaccinations do more harm than good.

Maybe people speaking up for reason has saved lives? Maybe a Jehovahs Witness was convinced, and chose to save their children's lives? Maybe an anti-vaccinator was convinced, and vaccinated their children? I'm not trying to claim anything so lofty for myself, but I think there's a real value in standing up for truth, reason, and evidence.

Yeah, I get that motivation. A kind of social justice motivation.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yeah, I get that motivation. A kind of social justice motivation.

Stop.  You are casting aspersions upon people who want to prevent deaths?  You are a shitty interfearing busybody if you want to keep preventable deaths at a minimum?

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Stop.  You are casting aspersions upon people who want to prevent deaths?  You are a shitty interfearing busybody if you want to keep preventable deaths at a minimum?

I wasn't picking a fight, Scot. Don't make it into one unnecessarily with that faux outrage. Flat earthers were the starting point, remember. No need for the white knight act over this triviality.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

10 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I wasn't picking a fight, Scot. Don't make it into one unnecessarily with that faux outrage. Flat earthers were the starting point, remember. No need for the white knight act over this triviality.

FNR,

And, again, I have no problem with Flat-Earthers, Hollow-Earther, Young Earth Creationists, Lizard-people conspiracy believers, or Rosencrucians so long as they aren't attempting to have their "theory" taught as truth to kids in school.  Are you going to claim that people who oppose those things being taught in schools are also being nitpicking busybodies? 

[S John]

On another board I've recently had it out over both the flat-earth and chemtrail conspiracy theorists.  The former only one person was willing to defend (but it was a stubborn defense), the latter actually had quite a few supporters.  WHAT ARE THEY SPRAYING!?!?!

The basic idea being that the contrail clouds produced by aircraft are not simply a natural consequence of condensation, but the government spraying chemicals from high altitude - usually the motivation for this is attributed to some sort of program to make citizens docile and/or submissive.  Folks say that some contrail clouds spread out from the thin trailing lines which are considered 'normal' into wider clouds that show that a chemical is dispersing over a wide area.  Or that some of these lines cris-cross in the sky proving that the government is trying to disperse something over population centers.

There are so many problems with this theory and I will now detail them.

1. First and foremost it fails in S John's opening test for a bullshit theory - which is that for it to be true, too many people would have to know about it and keep their mouth shut.  Including government officials, airport officials, basically all commercial pilots who would be sharing airspace with the 'sprayers'.  

2. Atmospheric conditions are constantly changing.  As contrails are condensation trails, that will behave differently depending on the local atmospheric conditions and the altitude of the plane.  Just because some contrails are thin and others spread out, does not mean the chemical composition of the clouds are different.

3. criss-cross flight patterns can be a result of either multiple aircraft traversing the sky in a number of directions OR can be the result of a high altitude aerial survey. If you ever see a plane 'mowing the lawn' in the sky, there's about a 100% chance they are doing some kind of an aerial photography survey.

4. If the goal is to make our population docile and submissive, it has completely and utterly failed.  We live in a violent and contentious society.  If it were to make us dumber, I might understand that, but reality TV and gutting education funding is a much stealthier way to do that.  

5. Whoever is doing the spraying, wouldn't 'they' also kinda be spraying themselves all the time too?  When the Illuminati, skull n' bones, and new world order types start roaming the earth in gas masks I'll start to worry.

[Lordsteve666]

The biggest issue i take with allowing conspiracy bullshit to persist is that it actually hampers people's critical thinking and allows people a means to hide from complex issues affecting us all by vanishing into some fantasy land bollocks.

Flat Earther people may seem harmless but when they pass on their idiot views to their kids or others and people start to question basic geography and physics or our world you're actually giving rise to a generation of idiots, despite the idea seeming to be ridiculous or harmless.
Same with anti-science people in general, and that covers a whole range of weird conspiracy ideas (anti-vax, anti-climate change, chemtrails, fake moon landings, HARP etc.). You have people in these groups who are actually not only spreading nonsense that may be harmful but they are spreading the idea that people should follow their crazy ideas and question everything that the larger community is saying. They are in effect spreading a virus of idiocy through the population even if their ideas are not directly harmful.

I mean how many anti-vax people now simply don't understand basic immunology, of human biology because they listen to alt ideas so much? How many flat earth people don't even understand basic geometry and physical principles?

An idea may seem harmless if it only teaches people some nonsense that is outlandish. But it also teaches people to follow bad critical thinking, and poor understanding of the basics of how the world/universe works.

[KingintheNorth4]

I've always had this impression from conspiracy theorists that somehow they think  they're "special", meaning that they believe they now have "forbidden knowledge" from watching Info Wars, YouTube videos, and other forms of media. Is it just me?