Lord of Raventree Hall Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 So, I am sure people have discussed this before, but regardless, what do you guys thinks? I personally think she should have revealed herself to Helman Tallhart or Robett Glover or just in a large group of Lords. I think Roose would have no choice but to send her to Riverrun probably with one of the aforementioned Lords or perhaps Harrion Karstark escorting. In the end, this would have never happened as George had other plans for Arya, but just wondering your thoughts. (Also I think Arya would have stayed in Riverrun or perhaps Seaguard during the Red Wedding) As Robb's heir, I really wonder what would have happened to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 55 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: So, I am sure people have discussed this before, but regardless, what do you guys thinks? I personally think she should have revealed herself to Helman Tallhart or Robett Glover or just in a large group of Lords. I think Roose would have no choice but to send her to Riverrun probably with one of the aforementioned Lords or perhaps Harrion Karstark escorting. In the end, this would have never happened as George had other plans for Arya, but just wondering your thoughts. (Also I think Arya would have stayed in Riverrun or perhaps Seaguard during the Red Wedding) As Robb's heir, I really wonder what would have happened to her. Where those lords loyal to Roose or Rob? How could she know? She made the right call based off her knowledge. And, those lords may just gawk and assume Roose's servent is crazy and while Roose may not kill her then and there he'd probably take her away and lock her up or kill her later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Where those lords loyal to Roose or Rob? How could she know? She made the right call based off her knowledge. And, those lords may just gawk and assume Roose's servent is crazy and while Roose may not kill her then and there he'd probably take her away and lock her up or kill her later. ....I am not suggesting Arya did anything wrong, I am wondering what would have happened. I really really doubt that in front of many of his bannermen he would do this. Besides fhe fact it is repeatedly said that Arya looks like Ned, I assume both Tallheart and Glover would at least offer to take her to Catelyn in Riverrun. She could have proved herself to them im a variety of ways as well. She is after all, actually Arya Stark. She could name a lot of things she wouldn't otherwise know. At the point Roose takes Harrenhall, he is very much loyal to Robb and his marriage hasn't been discovered yet, nor had the Battle on the Blackwater been lost yet. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand Arya's decision, I just think any of the three men I mentioned are likely to at least hear her out, and Roose would at least have to make a show of checking who she is. I see the worst case scenario beimg he simply holds her and actually marries her to Ramsay, which granted is awful, but I just don't see any logical reason for Roose to put himself at risk by having her killed. It is simply a horrible plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 17 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: So, I am sure people have discussed this before, but regardless, what do you guys thinks? I personally think she should have revealed herself to Helman Tallhart or Robett Glover or just in a large group of Lords. I think Roose would have no choice but to send her to Riverrun probably with one of the aforementioned Lords or perhaps Harrion Karstark escorting. In the end, this would have never happened as George had other plans for Arya, but just wondering your thoughts. (Also I think Arya would have stayed in Riverrun or perhaps Seaguard during the Red Wedding) As Robb's heir, I really wonder what would have happened to her. She considered revealing herself to Glover or Tallhart, but they left within a day or so, before she had made up her mind and could do so. In front of others, she might well have ended up at Riverrun. She could easily show herself to be literate and familiar with Winterfell, making it likely that they would take her seriously. However, Arya is only 10 years old,and traumatized as well, so probably isn't thinking real clearly nor inclined to trust anybody. I have seen speculation that Roose knew or suspected who she really was, which is why he made her a page,and put her in Elmar's path. Had she hung around, or revealed herself, she might have wound up in Ramsay's bed instead of Jeyne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 In front of others? He would have kept her safe. In private? He would have kept her hidden in plain sight, just as he did in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 1/1/2018 at 3:10 AM, Lord of Raventree Hall said: So, I am sure people have discussed this before, but regardless, what do you guys thinks? I personally think she should have revealed herself to Helman Tallhart or Robett Glover or just in a large group of Lords. I think Roose would have no choice but to send her to Riverrun probably with one of the aforementioned Lords or perhaps Harrion Karstark escorting. In the end, this would have never happened as George had other plans for Arya, but just wondering your thoughts. (Also I think Arya would have stayed in Riverrun or perhaps Seaguard during the Red Wedding) As Robb's heir, I really wonder what would have happened to her. What's more interesting is how Roose did not know Arya on sight. He was a Stark bannerman, after all, who would be expected to make regular visits to Winterfell -- harvest feasts and such -- during which he would be expected to discuss matters of the realm with his lord, and to scope out possible matches for his son. The fact that he does not know her suggests either Ned is keeping Roose at bay, even though Roose took part in Robert's Rebellion and, most likely, Greyjoy's rebellion as well, or Roose is deciding for himself to keep his distance. Either way, it is very odd to have a bannerman who was subdued thousands of years ago that neither trusts, nor is trusted by, his liege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, John Suburbs said: What's more interesting is how Roose did not know Arya on sight. He was a Stark bannerman, after all, who would be expected to make regular visits to Winterfell -- harvest feasts and such -- during which he would be expected to discuss matters of the realm with his lord, and to scope out possible matches for his son. The fact that he does not know her suggests either Ned is keeping Roose at bay, even though Roose took part in Robert's Rebellion and, most likely, Greyjoy's rebellion as well, or Roose is deciding for himself to keep his distance. Either way, it is very odd to have a bannerman who was subdued thousands of years ago that neither trusts, nor is trusted by, his liege. Arya is ten at the start of the story, so before that, Roose wouldn’t have had any reason to look at her as possible marriage for his son until she was at least close to flowering. And even then, Sansa was right there as the older, more dignified daughter of Eddard Stark. I get the feeling that most of Ned’s bannermen would be fighting each other to get Sansa as a daughter in law as opposed to Arya, who is not only less attractive, she is incredibly wild and wilful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 hours ago, John Suburbs said: What's more interesting is how Roose did not know Arya on sight. He was a Stark bannerman, after all, who would be expected to make regular visits to Winterfell -- harvest feasts and such -- during which he would be expected to discuss matters of the realm with his lord, and to scope out possible matches for his son. The fact that he does not know her suggests either Ned is keeping Roose at bay, even though Roose took part in Robert's Rebellion and, most likely, Greyjoy's rebellion as well, or Roose is deciding for himself to keep his distance. Either way, it is very odd to have a bannerman who was subdued thousands of years ago that neither trusts, nor is trusted by, his liege. Arya is also said to look like Lyanna Stark. Roose tells Theon how Domeric was a better rider then even Lyanna Stark who was half horse. This implies that Roose had perhaps met Lyanna. Maybe Roose did recognize Arya by her Stark features and was keeping an eye on her while at Harrenhal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 IMO Rooses feeling of superiority as a noble would prevent him or any lord like him from looking at a "commoner" as nobility. Not to mention her appearance was so drastically different that even Harwin had a hard time recognizing her, and surely he saw her much more than Roose would've. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foot_Of_The_King Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Stark Accidental comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 On 1/1/2018 at 0:10 AM, Lord of Raventree Hall said: I really wonder what would have happened to her. She would have been dead, and since she won't die until the battle for the dawn, she couldn't reveal herself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I think it really depends on what stage of his betrayal Roose was at. If he was already actively plotting Robb's downfall already, Arya would have been hidden away. Of course, if she had revealed herself to a group of lords, that would be more difficult to accomplish, and he might have been forced to play it straight. 16 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: In front of others? He would have kept her safe. In private? He would have kept her hidden in plain sight, just as he did in the story. Exactly. His best policy, if he did know her identity, would have been to do what he did, which wouldn't have drawn any attention to her and kept her safe until he was free to use her openly. However, the problem with this plan is what happened - she was given too much freedom and able to escape. On 02/01/2018 at 1:22 AM, Nevets said: I have seen speculation that Roose knew or suspected who she really was The problem with this is that Roose would then, surely, have planned to take her with him when he left Harrenhal rather than leave her with Hoat. Granted, he may not have wanted to take her to the RW, but Hoat is the absolutely last person you leave a valuable hostage with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said: His best policy, if he did know her identity, would have been to do what he did, which wouldn't have drawn any attention to her and kept her safe until he was free to use her openly. I don't know. I mean people already thinks the guy is creepy as fuck, would it really raise so much alarm if he had kept her locked up? I think the normal response would be he's chosen her as a new "play thing" and really think nothing else of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 26 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: I don't know. I mean people already thinks the guy is creepy as fuck, would it really raise so much alarm if he had kept her locked up? I think the normal response would be he's chosen her as a new "play thing" and really think nothing else of it True, no-one would have really noticed she was missing or cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 22 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Arya is ten at the start of the story, so before that, Roose wouldn’t have had any reason to look at her as possible marriage for his son until she was at least close to flowering. And even then, Sansa was right there as the older, more dignified daughter of Eddard Stark. I get the feeling that most of Ned’s bannermen would be fighting each other to get Sansa as a daughter in law as opposed to Arya, who is not only less attractive, she is incredibly wild and wilful. Still, if the relationship between Stark and Bolton had been even semi-normal, he would have met Arya, talked to her, multiple times over the years, simply as a matter of courtesy. Even if he does not have a son suitable to marry her, he has a vested political interest in whom she does marry because that would elevate another northern house to a higher status relative to his own. The fact that he doesn't know her from Adam in Harrenhal points up the exceedingly frosty relationship between Winterfell and one of its principal bannermen -- a relationship that is several thousand years old. Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 18 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Arya is also said to look like Lyanna Stark. Roose tells Theon how Domeric was a better rider then even Lyanna Stark who was half horse. This implies that Roose had perhaps met Lyanna. Maybe Roose did recognize Arya by her Stark features and was keeping an eye on her while at Harrenhal. Doubtful. If he had even the slightest inkling that she was a Stark, he never would have left her at Harrenhall. But odder still is the fact that Arya calls Roose "my lord" frequently during their time together, which we later learn is how Roose is able to spot highborn from lowborn. So unless he came to realize this after Arya had left Harrenhall, which is certainly possible, then he should at least have known that Arya was a valuable hostage. So why give her over to Hoat? Roose is indeed one of the most puzzling characters in the book because we can't even tell what he is supposed to know or not know at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, John Suburbs said: Doubtful. If he had even the slightest inkling that she was a Stark, he never would have left her at Harrenhall. But odder still is the fact that Arya calls Roose "my lord" frequently during their time together, which we later learn is how Roose is able to spot highborn from lowborn. So unless he came to realize this after Arya had left Harrenhall, which is certainly possible, then he should at least have known that Arya was a valuable hostage. So why give her over to Hoat? Roose is indeed one of the most puzzling characters in the book because we can't even tell what he is supposed to know or not know at any given time. He did not leave her at Harrenhall... She escaped while he was still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 27 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: He did not leave her at Harrenhall... She escaped while he was still there. Sure, but his intention was to leave her with Hoat. That's why she escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, John Suburbs said: Sure, but his intention was to leave her with Hoat. That's why she escaped. That's what he said he was going to do... Roose hasn't always been truthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 20 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: That's what he said he was going to do... Roose hasn't always been truthful. lol, well that's true, although I don't see why he would lie to her. And in yet another Roosean puzzle, were the mummers that Nymeria attacked really searching for Arya, or were they just out raiding? And if they were after her, does that mean Roose wanted her back, or just Hoat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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