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U.S. Politics: A Wolff In Sheep's Clothing

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15 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

What the average American thinks the rest of the world thinks of the US is grossly out of line with what the rest of the world actually thinks about the US. It's so bizarre, but then again, not surprising. So many people parrot the line that "Americans the greatest country in the world," who've never left the country. 

I would be interested to see a study of how passport holders voted in the 2016 election.  When I was younger I was totally susceptible to an 'America is unequivocally the greatest' attitude, which I think is kind of the default among American white people.  And don't get me wrong I still think that it's still a pretty good place to live, but it's hard to have spent some time travelling / living overseas and still believe that we have got everything figured out and every other way of organizing society is inferior.  That notion quickly becomes laughable, imo.  Even in some of the less developed countries I have been to I didn't feel like my life and lifestyle in America was markedly better than theirs.  It's hard to explain this to people, they just have to experience it.

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12 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I'm not at all sure it means that.  Trump's MO for years has been to dominate news cycles by saying something contraversial, and then if he likes the coverage, he issues either a denial, a half-denial, or a non-apology.  Regardless, it serves to help dominate the news cycle for another day.

There are several actually important things happening right now (FISA yesterday, DACA, Iran sanctions), and instead we're back to "Is Trump a racist?"  To me this looks 100% intentional.  If Trump ever wants to stage a coup, all he needs to do is drop the N-bomb on Kamala Harris the week before and the press will be too bamboozled to notice.

I think seeing this as specifically "intentional" is an illusory correlation. One could always point to something "more important" than Trump's narcissistic outbursts that's going on in terms of the US federal government any week of the year. And Trump says something outrageous almost every week. When you have two things that both occur 90% of the weeks in the year, having them both occur in the same week is no sign of deliberate "bamboozling".

However, I certainly do think that Trump finds the attention he gets for his remarks, even when it's negative, to be positively reinforcing. 

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18 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Big BBC report on the Trump thing. At least one person who was in the room has confirmed that the reports are 100% accurate and there was even a sharp exchange when his comments on Haiti were challenged.

The BBC are also reporting that multiple US ambassadors to African nations have been called in and reprimanded. The ambassador to Botswana was particularly excoriated with the government angrily demanding to know if the US President considered them to be a "shithole" as well.

Meanwhile, breaking news that the Ambassador to Panama is considering their position. Also a lot of anger in the US Embassy in London, with people pointing out that the decision to move the embassay was made by George Bush Jnr., not Barack Obama as Trump has inaccurately reported.

Ambassador to Panama and Ambassador to Haiti have both resigned.

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2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

However, I certainly do think that Trump finds the attention he gets for his remarks, even when it's negative, to be positively reinforcing. 

I think that Trump's strategy, from the campaign and into the Presidency, is to keep both the media and the public talking about his personality and style.  This feeds his narcissism, and it allows him to avoid having to always talk about policy, which he is both bad at and hates.  This strategy was more effective on the campaign trail than it has been as President, but it still works well at times (and I think this is one of them). 

I mean this literally when I say that I do not think a single Trump voter actually cares that Botswana just reprimanded the President.  Most Trump voters won't even hear about it.

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2 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I mean this literally when I say that I do not think a single Trump voter actually cares that Botswana just reprimanded the President.  Most Trump voters won't even hear about it.

Sadly, a lot of Trump's remaining supporters will think that this just proves the fake news - Botswana's gotta be a fake country right?

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4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I think that Trump's strategy, from the campaign and into the Presidency, is to keep both the media and the public talking about his personality and style.  This feeds his narcissism, and it allows him to avoid having to always talk about policy, which he is both bad at and hates.  This strategy was more effective on the campaign trail than it has been as President, but it still works well at times (and I think this is one of them). 

I mean this literally when I say that I do not think a single Trump voter actually cares that Botswana just reprimanded the President.  Most Trump voters won't even hear about it.

I really don't believe it's an actual strategy. I think he's just a racist, narcissistic asshole who can't control what he says and gets positive re-enforcement from the people around him.

The problem with the last part of the statement is that you're right about the hardcore part of his base, the 30% or so, but the other 15% of standard Republicans or working class Dems, the ones who might have voted for Obama in 2008/2012, those won't like it. And some of these are the reason Alabama flipped and might be the reason the House flips.

Edited by Mexal

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I'm absolutely sure the enlisted men and women of Haitian and African descent appreciates the Commander in chief denigrating their cultural heritage. 

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40 minutes ago, Fez said:

Trump clearly got a polling boost over the holidays, but it's unclear if its a potentially more permanent change (reaction to the tax bill from supporters) or if its a temporary boost caused by the fact that he stayed mostly out of the news for a couple weeks (over now of course) and people are often in a better mood from the holidays. Looking at the RCP average, it seems like the odds are it was a temporary boost that only hasn't totally gone away yet because Ras is having such relatively great numbers for him (up to only -7 today).

Yeah I think the "boost" is wholly reflective of the holiday season and nobody paying attention to him for a couple weeks - and, as you said, Rasmussen having him particularly high throughout, 46 today, while some of the non-daily trackers haven't came out with anything for awhile.  IBD/TIPP had him at 35/58 yesterday.

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Just now, Maithanet said:

I mean this literally when I say that I do not think a single Trump voter actually cares that Botswana just reprimanded the President.  Most Trump voters won't even hear about it.

I think saying not a "single Trump voter" cares is hyperbolic. If there weren't a lot of people who voted for him that didn't approve of his style, he wouldn't be as low as he is in approval ratings. 

Commentators on 538 have pointed out the existence of "reluctant Trump voters" who were hoping he'd change after the election is a real phenomenon for quite a while now:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-reluctant-voters-are-getting-more-reluctant/

 

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This could be fun

https://www.thebookseller.com/news/bite-back-bags-trump-memoir-former-press-secretary-sean-spicer-707636

Quote

Biteback Publishing has acquired a memoir by former White House press secretary Sean Spicer. 

The book, entitled The Briefing, will describe his time as Donald Trump’s spokesman and promises to shed "new light" on the headline-grabbing controversies of the Trump administration’s first year. 

News of the book follows soaring demand in the past week for journalist Michael Wolff's exposé Fire and Fury (Little, Brown) following the president's attempts to halt its publication through legal action.

Spicer is described by Biteback as having "often jousted with the media" on behalf of Trump, most memorably when the media downplayed the size of the inauguration crowd. He left the White House when Trump brought in Anthony Scaramucci as communications director, a role the latter would occupy for only 10 days before being fired.

His book will publish on 23rd July 2018, marketed as a "crucial insider's account" that will tap into first-hand experience to reveal the truth behind Trump's controversial administration. 

...

I hope their ready to rush it to the shops tomorrow if Trump threatens them

Edited by Which Tyler

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24 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

This could be fun

https://www.thebookseller.com/news/bite-back-bags-trump-memoir-former-press-secretary-sean-spicer-707636

I hope their ready to rush it to the shops tomorrow if Trump threatens them

Spicer hasn’t shown any spine, it will probably be a book defending Trump

 Also, ”media downplayed the size of the inauguration crowd...”?  Factually reporting is downplaying?

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@Dr. Pepper, @butterbumps!,

Those are also totally possible, as well as some other scenarios. I was just focusing on the worst possible, which also seems like something Trump would do.

@Maithanet,

Funny that you mention that (well not really at all actually), some of my friends and I have a bet on whether or not Trump will hit Obama with a N-bomb while he’s in office. Most believe he’ll be caught on a hot mic saying it.

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1 hour ago, S John said:

I would be interested to see a study of how passport holders voted in the 2016 election.  When I was younger I was totally susceptible to an 'America is unequivocally the greatest' attitude, which I think is kind of the default among American white people.  And don't get me wrong I still think that it's still a pretty good place to live, but it's hard to have spent some time travelling / living overseas and still believe that we have got everything figured out and every other way of organizing society is inferior.  That notion quickly becomes laughable, imo.  Even in some of the less developed countries I have been to I didn't feel like my life and lifestyle in America was markedly better than theirs.  It's hard to explain this to people, they just have to experience it.

Yeah I agree with this, especially the part about experiencing it. I used to think the same until I went to Mexico on spring break my freshman year, and was surprised that there was really no difference. It hit home doubly hard after my study abroad in a third world South American country. Their internet was actually better than ours.

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33 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Spicer hasn’t shown any spine, it will probably be a book defending Trump

Meh, Scott McClellan was probably even a bigger stooge, and his book on Dubya was quite critical and caused a minor "uproar."  That's how you sell books - not that it matters in the long run.  No one really cares what Sean Spicer thinks.

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Out of curiousity I searched the word shithole on Westeros, and references to various places in Westeros aside, you guys like to call a number of NFL cities shitholes, especially Canton, home of the Hall of Fame, the places you live in shitholes, and third world countries shitholes, as in the EU exploits third world shitholes. However, the listings ended with one reference from 2014, and I know I have read references to other countries being shitholes, specifically, iirc, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq. I recall a number of threads about US foreign policy and people saying things like, why are we in every shithole in the world.

My point is, the use of the word is pretty wide spread. However, the other major point is none of us are the POTUS.

And I was impressed that only 2 pages of references were listed. Of course, there was a long period in there where all the threads vanished, after the upgrade.  There is nothing between June 2014 and April 2015, for example.

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On 1/12/2018 at 1:16 PM, Fragile Bird said:

My point is, the use of the word is pretty wide spread. However, the other major point is none of us are the POTUS.

The word shithole is a pretty common American term, one I've used to describe unpleasant places. I don't really care if the President uses the term (remember obama used the term "shit show"), nor do I care really if POTUS drops f-bombs in private meetings.

But asking why people would want to leave said places looking for a better life, while bemoaning why good blond haired blue eyed Norwegians aren't coming over is the problem here.

Edited by OldGimletEye

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12 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

The word shithole is a pretty common American term, one I've used to describe unpleasant places. I don't really care if the President uses the term (remember obama used the term "shit show"), nor do I care really if POTUS drops f-bombs in private meetings.

But asking why people would want to leave said places looking for a better life, while bemoaning why good blond haired blued Norwegians aren't coming over is the problem here.

Dr. Tobias Funke is Norwegian?

Also, FB, ignore everything you read in the NFL thread. We tend to savage one another. From time to time.

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17 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

The word shithole is a pretty common American term, one I've used to describe unpleasant places. I don't really care if the President uses the term (remember obama used the term "shit show"), nor do I care really if POTUS drops f-bombs in private meetings.

But asking why people would want to leave said places looking for a better life, while bemoaning why good blond haired blued Norwegians aren't coming over is the problem here.

Maybe Trump wants more socialist voters.

 

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23 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Dr. Tobias Funke is Norwegian?

Who is Dr. Tobias Funke?

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