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House Beaudreau

GRRM, trying to deceive us with releasing of TWOW previews

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If you haven't read or listened to all TWOW preview chapters, i would highly suggest you do. They're great. But not only do at least three of the POV's happen somewhere I don't think any of us we're going to be able to guess like Mercy, The Forsaken, and Arianna. 

It seems like more and more as the books go along the and now especially with TWOW chapters, it seems like George is separating out the POV characters not only by region but by time as well. I'm wondering what people think, if this is just a product of how George tell this huge story with so many different characters, or some POV stories are much shorter than others or happen over much longer periods of time? or is George intentionally trying to deceive us with how he has released these preview chapters.

Here are some examples about some weird things I have noticed but I might be crazy. 

  • In the Forsaken Chapter a lot of time passes from the beginning to the end. By the end of the Chapter Euron and Aeron are on there way to meet the Redwyne fleet, but this would be months probably meaning that Sam would have been at the Citadel, the Battle at Storm's End has probably already happened, and Cersei's trial probably already happened.
  •  in the Arianna chapter we get a report that a Reach host is on its way to Storm's End to meet the Golden Company in battle. Meaning, if this is true, that Cersei's and Margery's trial have already happened. 
  • In the Mercy chapter, just basing this off the dialoge and how the POV thinks and acts it seems like Mercy/Arya is much older than the last time we saw her. 

  In the Alyanne chapter, a couple weeks have passed since we last saw here, and this isn't really anything about the timeline per say, but has Sansa not heard anything about what is happening in the North with Fake Arya? seems like she would probably care?

it seems like these previews are not mean to take place right at the beginning of TWOW that there is probably a lot to happen before these chapters. Is there gonna be a big Tarantino reveal of the matching up of timeline and give us a big unexpected result or are timelines going to just continue to low down and speed up at will?    

    

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Arya's timeline is ahead of the others during Dance.That is well established. As to the preview chapters. We have no idea when they each take place in the book. That Aeron chapter might be half way in to the book for instance. The trial has clearly taken place in Mercy as the conversation between the guards indicates Cersei is still in power. So again it might be a later chapter in the book. Or cersei's trial might take place right at the beginning of winds. Some of the ones we've seen were removed from ADWD so we know they'll be early on in the book. But others might be anywhere. He hasn't released them in chronological order.  Arya is not much older in Mercy than she is when we leave her in Dance as the job she is on with the mummers troop is the one the Kindly man is sending her on at the end of dance. However she has had time to learn a play so it is probably at least a month later. The reason the content is more mature is that GRRM has had that chapter for a very long time and initially it would have taken place after the proposed 5 yr gap. He dropped the gap but the chapter stayed. Also take into account Arya is wearing Mercy's face. The thoughts, memories, and feelings of the dead infuse into the wearer of the faces. Mercy might have been a few years older than Arya. Meaning Arya's thoughts etc aged up a bit with wearing her face.  

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I think in the case of the Forsaken, it effectively started right after the Kingsmoot, but because it is from the pov of someone who has vanished due to being imprisoned for the entire time, it is fine to have it cover a long period. It would always make sense to have it as a single chapter and set it chronologically at the point where it intersects back with the other characters and events because it is fine to backfill in a story but not ok to ruin a future surprise. It shouldn't be that far into Winds, we know the Redwyne fleet is about to arrive from one of the Arianne chapters.

And I guess the other thing to remember, although these chapters seem very polished, they are not yet officially canon. If George needs to change certain details (or even completely rewrite something) to make it fit with other things he had not written at the time, he can do so.

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As to the thread title. No.

These preview chapters, I'm thinking there are about 11 of them, were shared at conventions and on Martin's site. Public. 

It was the Theon chapter that interested me. That one was a reject from DwD and happened before Jon Snow was knifed.

Actually all were interesting. They all give a preview of what is coming but sadly I am in a state of limbo because the WoW is still floating around the twilight zone.

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2 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

I'm wondering what people think, if this is just a product of how George tell this huge story with so many different characters, or some POV stories are much shorter than others or happen over much longer periods of time?

Yes. 

There's no common time scale of any kind that all the chapters, POVs, or subplots, adhere to. Some POVs exist only for a limited period, some are there semi-permanently, but don't have all that much to reveal. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

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3 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

it seems like these previews are not mean to take place right at the beginning of TWOW that there is probably a lot to happen before these chapters. Is there gonna be a big Tarantino reveal of the matching up of timeline and give us a big unexpected result or are timelines going to just continue to low down and speed up at will?    

    

Timelines in this series are not and have not been coordinated.  Chapters involving different characters often take place out of order.

3 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

Here are some examples about some weird things I have noticed but I might be crazy. 

  • In the Forsaken Chapter a lot of time passes from the beginning to the end. By the end of the Chapter Euron and Aeron are on there way to meet the Redwyne fleet, but this would be months probably meaning that Sam would have been at the Citadel, the Battle at Storm's End has probably already happened, and Cersei's trial probably already happened.
  •  in the Arianna chapter we get a report that a Reach host is on its way to Storm's End to meet the Golden Company in battle. Meaning, if this is true, that Cersei's and Margery's trial have already happened. 
  • In the Mercy chapter, just basing this off the dialoge and how the POV thinks and acts it seems like Mercy/Arya is much older than the last time we saw her. 

  In the Alyanne chapter, a couple weeks have passed since we last saw here, and this isn't really anything about the timeline per say, but has Sansa not heard anything about what is happening in the North with Fake Arya? seems like she would probably care?

Foresaken -  I haven't read the chapter, but Sam is already at the Citadel at the end of AFFC, and the Battle of Storm's End and Cersei's trial are rapidly approaching as of the end of ADWD.  So I doubt that it is that far ahead.

Mercy - Swyft was preparing to go to Braavos as of the end of ADWD.  Even if delayed, it is likely only a few weeks later.  It would seem that Arya has been with the troupe for a few months.  Izembaro,its leader, was the person she was sent to at the end of ADWD.   As for the maturity, Arya has always been more mature and precocious than her chronological age would indicate (especially by modern standards.  Given that she is almost 12 by now, I don't see anything too unusual.

Alayne - News of Ramsay's marriage to "Arya" may not have been considered important in the Vale, plus it occurs some time into ADWD.  The whole conflict with Stannis has probably taken place too late for news to get out yet.  Plus, Littlefinger has been deliberately keeping Sansa in the dark about currrent events.  Although I expect Myranda will be happy to tell her about "Arya"'s marriage and gauge her reaction.

Given the series's usual difficulties with the passage of time, I really don't see anything unusual in the preview chapters.

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Alayne, Arianne I and Theon are very early in Winds along with Slaver's Bay chapters.

  • Sansa seem to ignore everything outside of the Vale (Cersei's and Margaery's arrest, walk of shame, "Arya" getting married, fall of Riverrun)
  • Mace stated that he would not march to Storms End before the trial and in Arianne II we hear of a Tyrell army coming to them. There must be some time for Arianne to reach Griffin's Roost and Aegon to take Storm's End
  • Theon was a cut from DWD so it is earlier than Jon's death.
  • Mercy must be later. Swift needs some time to reach Braavos (especially during winter) and a resolution to the trials is implied ("If he goes back without the gold the queen will have his head".)

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On 3/18/2018 at 7:35 PM, House Beaudreau said:

it seems like these previews are not mean to take place right at the beginning of TWOW that there is probably a lot to happen before these chapters. Is there gonna be a big Tarantino reveal of the matching up of timeline and give us a big unexpected result or are timelines going to just continue to low down and speed up at will?    

    

I agree. There should be several chapters before those, which should run in parallel with the second half of the ADWD timeline. In particular we should see Davos (a lot of time passed since  we last saw him at White Harbor), maybe Bran (also lot of time has passed) and Sam (we need world building there). Sansa's chapter should be also in between, since no news of Stannis battle nor of the events in the Stormlands have reached the Vale, yet.

 

 

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Sansa’s chapter was originally supposed to be in ADWD.  It’s surely going to be one of the first ones.

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The Foresaken chapter doesn't take place over months, it covers months with flashbacks and memories.  They are on a boat off the Arbor the whole time.  Since we are given the location of the Redwyn fleet in the chapter, and at the end of TWOW, we know that it is actually taking place at the beginning of the book.  The Arianne chapters would take place a little bit before them but not by a lot, and definitely right after TWOW.  We also know the Theon chapter, Barristan chapters, and Tyrion chapters all happen first thing.

Sansa's chapter also makes reference to the fact that the mountain passes of the Vale only became unpassable recently, and since it had already started snowing in the Riverlands by the end of TWOW, that should also be pretty close.

Mercy is the only one that stands out as being at least a few weeks in.  It seems that Cersei has regained power, and her trial was set for like a week after the end of TWOW, and the party that goes to Bravos seems to have left after that, otherwise the guard wouldn't have known she was back in power.  But I still wouldn't put it more than a few weeks after the end of TWOW because we know Harys Swyft was already planning on going there.

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There's no reason to think these are the first Winds chapters in order. It's very likely that there will be others interspersed so that, say, the Arianne and Damphair POVs take place after other key events have already taken place.

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