US Politics: March Madness

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

Say what you want about Clinton, there was never a real worry that when he was impeached, he wouldn't go quietly. Ditto Bush the First when he was voted out. In a lot of ways, Trump is what Fox News accused Obama of being for all those years. A rogue President that is taking an ax to our institutions, inflaming racial tensions, and flagrantly ignoring the rule of law.

The scariest part of the MW book was that one of the few people Trump will read about is Andrew Jackson. What happens when Agent Orange has his own "the court made the ruling, now let them enforce it" moment?

[Martell Spy]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/obama-returns-to-give-claire-mccaskill-a-fundraising-boost.html

Obama Returns to Help a Vulnerable Senate Democrat

Quote

Perhaps the more immediate concern among Republicans are comments Hawley made last December at an event hosted by a Christian political group, during which he blamed sex trafficking today on the sexual revolution of the 1960s and ’70s. Hawley later doubled down on those comments, despite the criticism, and the episode has sparked some fears that the party’s candidate could implode again, in a repeat of the last time they tried to take down McCaskill. Todd Akin lost by 16 points in 2012 after opining about “legitimate rape” during the campaign

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

At this point they'd probably only turn against him if he causes them to get wiped out in the midterms, and maybe not even then. Their willingness to defend him is frankly absurd.

The GOP will continue to stick with Trump as long as their interests are aligned with his.  And their interests will continue to be aligned with his as long as most of their constituents (80%) approve of Trump and many (45%) strongly approve of him.  It's pretty simple.

[GAROVORKIN]

23 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

The GOP will continue to stick with Trump as long as their interests are aligned with his.  And their interests will continue to be aligned with his as long as most of their constituents (80%) approve of Trump and many (45%) strongly approve of him.  It's pretty simple.

 It looks like he might get  Kim to come to the table and negotiate . Of course, Kim could pull out at the last minute which would not be a surprise given North Korea's past history. 

[Yukle]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

My dad always jokes that Nancy had to sign the bills for him at the end of his second term. Anyways, I have no idea how this affected what happened with Iran-Contra, but Reagan should have had to resign over that (also, you clearly need to eat a Snickers. You're not yourself, making spelling errors like that about a historical figure when you're a history teacher (I win, you lose, go team Milky Way!) ). 

With regards to their personal lives, sure. I've never liked Bill Clinton and agree he should have resigned. I take it as a badge of honor that I on multiple occasions have turned down the chance to have an official photo with him. But I agree with Yukle, everything else outside of their personal lives is quite different. 

This forum has put me in the habit of always putting a before e. Aegon, Aerys, Raegan. Makes sense.

 

1 hour ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Why are you gunning for WaPo? Do you really think shit's going to get better if we lose one of the better journalistic outlets in the US? 

I have enjoyed watching Fox New's revenue drying up as advertisers have pulled form their network, especially during Sean Hannity's programming. They still have enough to stay afloat, unfortunately.

However, it has occurred to me recently that Trump might demand in-kind donations - in the form of no longer advertising on certain media he doesn't like.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Yukle said:

This forum has put me in the habit of always putting a before e. Aegon, Aerys, Raegan. Makes sense.

Are you saying Reagan was a Targaryen?  Don't tell Republicans, they'll start having incest.  Well, more of them anyway.

[Wethers]

19 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

 It looks like he might get  Kim to come to the table and negotiate . Of course, Kim could pull out at the last minute which would not be a surprise given North Korea's past history. 

Huh?  North Korea has wanted to negotiate with every US President:  Obama, W etc.

We had never given it to them because it legitimizes the regime.

It’s Kim that has gotten Trump to come to the table and negotiate, and Trump has gotten nothing in return for de facto legitimizing the NK regime.  Great work Donnie!

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

23 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Donald Trump Jr. Reportedly Fills Void in Heart With Concealed-Carry Permit

https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/donald-trump-jr-reportedly-got-a-new-concealed-carry-permit.html

 

23 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

Well that's a red flag.

That's interesting. Is he even a resident of PA?

Or does it not matter if they bring back up this bill? Fuck states rights.

[GAROVORKIN]

16 minutes ago, Wethers said:

Huh?  North Korea has wanted to negotiate with every US President:  Obama, W etc.

We had never given it to them because it legitimizes the regime.

It’s Kim that has gotten Trump to come to the table and negotiate, and Trump has gotten nothing in return for de facto legitimizing the NK regime.  Great work Donnie!

Lets see  the end the result of this meeting and then decide whether it's a success or failure .

[Mlle. Zabzie]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

It's owned by Amazon. And it writes truthful things that hurt Donnie's feelings.

 

1 hour ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Ah, got it.  

Because I am a stickler about this kind of thing, Wapo is owned by a holding company controlled by Jeff Bezos. That is, in fact different than being owned by Amazon. So, the president is going after a public company because he doesn’t like the founder and ceo’s Politics. Please for a moment leave aside what you might think of any entity. That is f*cking wrong. And all the chatter about how amazon enforces state sales tax laws for their merchant partners in their marketplace (which is what is being proposed) how does that make sense as retaliation and how does that make sense for a federal government action?

[lokisnow]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

There is some truth to this, but Trump is a massive exaggeration. I've worked with a number of elected officials, and they are pretty much the same in public as they are in private sans the swearing. What you typically get is a more polished version of the individual, which common in many professions. 

This is very true, I was getting more at the idea of how good politicians become shitty campaigners when they start campaigning for president. because they're performing a role they are not as familiar with and not 100% comfortable with.  I don't think Trump is uncomfortable at all with the role he performs as "TRUMP!" but I think the reframing for the public persona is a skill he has never used before nor had to develop.  

It's seductive to think that TRUMP is just pure Trump, but I think, it's very much a standard politician performance--as performed by a non professional politician!

in other words TRUMP! is not different from what non political junkies see when they look at any politician is putting forth their own schtick, and non political junkies don't really see a difference between TRUMP! and "I feel your pain *bites lip*, *wrinkles face to semi-frown-sad-eyes*". They just see a politician performing and glom it all together as the same stuff as always, just different volumes. 

or if they recognize Trump as different, they do the cognitively standard thing and ascribe a new value to the different thing (for a lot of people this is a positive value "that's new, refreshing, tells it like it is, honest etc, though of course he does turn off people as well)

So just as you might expect an amateur Shakespeare actor to put on a thick accent and Bellow "TOOOOO BEEEE!!!!!!! (dramatic pause) or not... NOTTTTTT (dramatic pause) TOOO BEEEE thatisthequestion," you'd expect Trump to perform TRUMP about as effectively and subtly, which I'd say he does.

[Shryke]

7 hours ago, Kalbear said:

I think that the idea that Trump is clearly in some kind of alzheimer dementia is wishful thinking. I agree he's not as sharp as he was 20 years ago, but it's not clear at all that he's impaired, and the idea that his legal team left him (as @Tywin et al. mentioned) because of it seems like wishful thinking. The obvious answer is that he's really difficult to work with, and lawyers don't like to lose, especially when their clients won't listen to their advice. 

As to politically, I am entirely skeptical simply because the only threat to Trump is if the Republican congresspeople turn against him, and there has been zero sign of this so far. They won't even vote to pass a law stating that Mueller can't be fired.

It's not wishful thinking, it's watching the man and reading the stories about him. He's probably got some level of dementia. Also likely barely literate. Plus, you know, the very obvious narcissism.

There's more threat to Trump then just that. Yeah, Congress will need to do something if you want him impeached but there are other problems for him and it is rapidly becoming the case that Ryan and McConnell's unwillingness to do anything is the only thing propping Trump up. Whether or not anything is actually done with it, the evidence is pilling up bit by bit and that's more then enough to make his position shakier.

[Shryke]

34 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Because I am a stickler about this kind of thing, Wapo is owned by a holding company controlled by Jeff Bezos. That is, in fact different than being owned by Amazon. So, the president is going after a public company because he doesn’t like the founder and ceo’s Politics. Please for a moment leave aside what you might think of any entity. That is f*cking wrong. And all the chatter about how amazon enforces state sales tax laws for their merchant partners in their marketplace (which is what is being proposed) how does that make sense as retaliation and how does that make sense for a federal government action?

Yeah, none of this actually makes sense from a business point of view and from an ethical point of view it's, well, it's really just the standard level of ethics you get from Trump and his cronies.

This is entirely a vindictive thing from a man who views everything in terms of the personal.

[Shryke]

19 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

This is very true, I was getting more at the idea of how good politicians become shitty campaigners when they start campaigning for president. because they're performing a role they are not as familiar with and not 100% comfortable with.  I don't think Trump is uncomfortable at all with the role he performs as "TRUMP!" but I think the reframing for the public persona is a skill he has never used before nor had to develop.  

It's seductive to think that TRUMP is just pure Trump, but I think, it's very much a standard politician performance--as performed by a non professional politician!

in other words TRUMP! is not different from what non political junkies see when they look at any politician is putting forth their own schtick, and non political junkies don't really see a difference between TRUMP! and "I feel your pain *bites lip*, *wrinkles face to semi-frown-sad-eyes*". They just see a politician performing and glom it all together as the same stuff as always, just different volumes. 

or if they recognize Trump as different, they do the cognitively standard thing and ascribe a new value to the different thing (for a lot of people this is a positive value "that's new, refreshing, tells it like it is, honest etc, though of course he does turn off people as well)

So just as you might expect an amateur Shakespeare actor to put on a thick accent and Bellow "TOOOOO BEEEE!!!!!!! (dramatic pause) or not... NOTTTTTT (dramatic pause) TOOO BEEEE thatisthequestion," you'd expect Trump to perform TRUMP about as effectively and subtly, which I'd say he does.

Trump is just Trump. You can find evidence of this going back decades.

[Wethers]

39 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Lets see  the end the result of this meeting and then decide whether it's a success or failure .

You were the one framing it as a potential success saying that “Trump” may get Kim to the table as if that in itself is a coup.  It is a coup - for NK.  US has given away a bargaining chip.

if, say, the US gets NK to disarm (...) as a result of the meetings then that would be great.  But as of now, there are no results other than the negative of giving away the bargaining chip, being spun as a positive by the usual suspects.

[all swedes are racist]

3 hours ago, Yukle said:

What's wrong with the Washington Post? It's the closest to a normal media outlet that the USA has, rather than an infotainment advertising channel.

 

2 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Why are you gunning for WaPo? Do you really think shit's going to get better if we lose one of the better journalistic outlets in the US? 

 sorry, i wasn’t clear there, but yeah i was referring to amazon, not wapo

democracy may die in darkness, but employees die in amazon warehouses

[Yukle]

1 hour ago, Shryke said:

It's not wishful thinking, it's watching the man and reading the stories about him. He's probably got some level of dementia. Also likely barely literate. Plus, you know, the very obvious narcissism.

There's more threat to Trump then just that. Yeah, Congress will need to do something if you want him impeached but there are other problems for him and it is rapidly becoming the case that Ryan and McConnell's unwillingness to do anything is the only thing propping Trump up. Whether or not anything is actually done with it, the evidence is pilling up bit by bit and that's more then enough to make his position shakier.

Having watched a few docos on him now that use old footage, it's hard to see any difference between Trump now and as he was in his 50s. Dementia is normally fatal within a decade or so - not always of course - but it's hard to see how he'd have gone so long if his condition is this bad.

It seems he's just an idiot. He doesn't think things through, is genuinely bigoted and is rewarded for it.

Trump is an example of "The Worst White Man Syndrome." This is where society will always pick a white man - even the worst white man - over any other candidate. Whatever Americans say that they don't like about Clinton (the female one) no sane person could possibly conclude that she was worse than Trump. Somehow that didn't matter. In all of America's history literally one president hasn't been a white man. And when Obama was inaugurated there was a backlash on Twitter with the hash-tag "it'scalledthewhitehouse." Obama was black, and that was a reason to oppose him for many.

Now, they get their reward: a white man. And it doesn't matter that he's the worst possible white man for the job, in their eyes the worst white man is better than a candidate with the afflictions of being female or non-white.

Trump's brain does work. He's an idiot, sure, but his cognitive ability seems fine. He was never smart to begin with, is a bit more unpolished with age, but I can't see any reason to think he has dementia.

[Yukle]

Two things I just thought of, and I can't be the first person to think of this:

1) Is Donald Trump's silence on his infidelity at this stage related to a pre-nuptial agreement with his current wife? For instance, saying anything that confirms he had affairs could be grounds for certain conditions to be met that would leave him financially ruined. The best bet I can make is an actual money amount, not a percentage. Evidence overwhelmingly supports the fact that Trump isn't as wealthy as he says he is - if he is at all. So if he promised Melania grounds for divorce and 50% of his estate at this stage, that's 50% of billions of debt. But if it's a dollar amount, maybe he promised her $50 million in the event of an at-fault divorce. And for all of his bluster he cannot afford $50 million.

2) What it, in among all of his affairs wherein he hasn't used protection, Trump had a child out of wedlock? He'd dispute it, but there are means to force a paternity test. Or just check the child for bone spurs.

[drawkcabi]

4 hours ago, Yukle said:

This forum has put me in the habit of always putting a before e. Aegon, Aerys, Raegan. Makes sense.

 

I have enjoyed watching Fox New's revenue drying up as advertisers have pulled form their network, especially during Sean Hannity's programming. They still have enough to stay afloat, unfortunately.

However, it has occurred to me recently that Trump might demand in-kind donations - in the form of no longer advertising on certain media he doesn't like.

a before e only in GRRM's fantasy...

[ThinkerX]

Ok, so Trump needs a lawyer.

Alas (for him), competent, respectable lawyers are unwilling to work for him, plus Trump finds their legalize boring and constrictive. 

So, what he want's is a flamboyant, hard hitting lawyer whose name will resonate with the base.  Somebody capable of ramping up the chaos another three or four notches (does the dial go that high?)

One candidate leaps to mind.

Klayman.  Yes.  THAT Klayman - the far right 'Judicial Watch' guy.

Been seeing blurbs on FB about where he's demanding to be appointed SP to investigate Mueller.  Seems like Trumps kind of guy.

Think he's up for the job?