Jump to content
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn

Wow, I never noticed that v.17

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, Seams said:

If there is wordplay on Loras / solar, there could be deeper meaning in this defeat and in the weapon employed to achieve it. 

Oh. I have never seen that wordplay. Man, the RLJ "it is known" guys must hate that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2018 at 9:08 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yes yes yes! Want more of this stuff!:drool:

 

4 hours ago, Seams said:

Brienne uses the morningstar to defeat Ser Loras at Renly's melee at Bitterbridge. If there is wordplay on Loras / solar, there could be deeper meaning in this defeat and in the weapon employed to achieve it. 

I have a longstanding suspicion that The Hound represents the night - possibly the Long Night - and he also wins a tourney (the Hand's Tourney) when Ser Loras concedes to him out of gratitude for saving him from Ser Gregor. 

To further complicate things, I suspect Ser Gregor and Bitterbridge might represent Rorge and Biter. There is symbolism of taking a bite out of someone's cheek (and of Renly biting a peach) that may represent a solar eclipse. 

We're going to need to see Brienne, Ser Loras and Sandor Clegane (or maybe Lem Lemoncloak wearing the Hound helmet) come together to restore the "sun," I suspect. 

Peach fuzz beards?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

In ADWD, Tyrion is said to have burgundy breeches on. Burgundy is a real-world region. :D

Burgundy, a French region famous for its wine, is also a colour similar to red wine - which oddly enough translates in French as "bordeaux", the other great place for red wine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Jô Maltese said:

Burgundy, a French region famous for its wine, is also a colour similar to red wine - which oddly enough translates in French as "bordeaux", the other great place for red wine.

Yep. Are there other real-world namedrops in ASOIAF, maybe?

Edited by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This could fall into the foreshadowing category (2 of them, the dragons and Bran possibly appearing to Sansa at some point). 

The night the bird had come from Winterfell, Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned's cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon's breath surrounded the girls where they lay. "I dreamed of Bran," Sansa had whispered to him. "I saw him smiling." (Eddard V, AGOT 25)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

This could fall into the foreshadowing category (2 of them, the dragons and Bran possibly appearing to Sansa at some point). 

The night the bird had come from Winterfell, Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned's cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon's breath surrounded the girls where they lay. "I dreamed of Bran," Sansa had whispered to him. "I saw him smiling." (Eddard V, AGOT 25)

The godswood in King's Landing is marked by black cottonwood and alder, a tree with a gray, almost white, bark. The heart tree is is overgrown with smokeberries. Berries are often red, and smokeberries in ASOIAF are used to make wine, further suggesting that the berries are red. Bloodraven often wore smoke and scarlet, and his arms bore a white dragon on a black field. And to tie it up with a bow, Bloodraven's dragon was depicted breath scarlet flame... like the dark red blooms of dragon's breath? 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The godswood in King's Landing is marked by black cottonwood and alder, a tree with a gray, almost white, bark. The heart tree is is overgrown with smokeberries. Berries are often red, and smokeberries in ASOIAF are used to make wine, further suggesting that the berries are red. Bloodraven often wore smoke and scarlet, and his arms bore a white dragon on a black field. And to tie it up with a bow, Bloodraven's dragon was depicted breath scarlet flame... like the dark red blooms of dragon's breath? 

I personally think this is all taken a tad too far. Sansa is in the godswood, she falls asleep and dreams of Bran. I think that maybe there's the implication that Bran will enter Sansa's dreams at some point. We saw him reach Jon like that. And he appeared to Theon in the godswood, but that wasn't a dream. 

I don't believe dragon's breath has anything to do with Bloodraven. Two daughters of Winterfell in a godswood surrounded with dragon's breath though . . .

ETA - There's also this with Jon while he's in the Frostfangs since we're talking plants;

Yet even so, Jon Snow was not sorry he had come. There were wonders here as well. He had seen sunlight flashing on icy thin waterfalls as they plunged over the autumn wildflowers and bright scarlet frostfires and strands of piper's grass in russet and gold. (Jon VI, Clash 51)

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/29/2018 at 4:06 PM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

In ADWD, Tyrion is said to have burgundy breeches on. Burgundy is a real-world region. :D

It's a color. 

Edited by SirArthur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In ADwD Ch.36 Cersei VIII, Tommen tries to pull rank on Cersei and Cersei threatens Tommen

Quote

her son went on to say. “I should go to court with you every day, to listen. Margaery says—”
“—a deal too much,” Cersei snapped. “For half a groat I’d gladly have her tongue torn out.”
“Don’t you say that,” Tommen shouted suddenly, his round little face turning red. “You leave her tongue alone. Don’t you touch her. I’m the king, not you.”
She stared at him, incredulous. “What did you say?”
“I’m the king. I get to say who has their tongues torn out, not you. I won’t let you hurt Margaery. I won’t. I forbid it.”
Cersei took him by the ear and dragged him squealing to the door, where she found Ser Boros Blount standing guard. “Ser Boros, His Grace has forgotten himself. Kindly escort him to his bedchamber and bring up Pate. This time I want Tommen to whip the boy himself. He is to continue until the boy is bleeding from both cheeks. If His Grace refuses, or says one word of protest, summon Qyburn and tell him to remove Pate’s tongue, so His Grace can learn the cost of insolence.”

Cersei then goes to bed, and in her dream she is the queen without a tongue

Quote

Go back, she tried to tell them. Turn away. There is nothing here for you. But though she moved her mouth, no words came out.

...“Begone,” croaked Maggy, a third time.
Listen to her, the queen would have cried if she had her tongue. You still have time to flee. Run, you little fools!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The godswood in King's Landing is marked by black cottonwood and alder, a tree with a gray, almost white, bark. The heart tree is is overgrown with smokeberries. Berries are often red, and smokeberries in ASOIAF are used to make wine, further suggesting that the berries are red. Bloodraven often wore smoke and scarlet, and his arms bore a white dragon on a black field. And to tie it up with a bow, Bloodraven's dragon was depicted breath scarlet flame... like the dark red blooms of dragon's breath? 

I know that not everyone is interested in wordplay, but I'll just throw in that I'm almost certain that there is a pun on "bury" and "berry". (It is not a coincidence when the man in the glass garden gives Bran a berry just before he makes his fateful climb of the old keep.) I believe "smoke berry" might be a symbolic way of alluding to a funeral pyre - essentially, burying a dead body in a fire. This would be an appropriate variation on a heart tree that has been in King's Landing, in close proximity to the Targaryens. 

The Bloodraven interpretation sounds right to me, although he also seems like a match for the red and white weirwood trees. If there is a wine allusion, that is a good tie to Bloodraven because of his wine stain birthmark. Maybe this Bloodraven/heart tree connection is just GRRM's way of showing that Starks and Targs are variations on the same idea of a sacred tree?

17 hours ago, SirArthur said:

It's a color. 

 

16 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Yes, but it takes it's name after the Burgundy region. Or the wine from that region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundy

I'm sure that GRRM was using the color as a way of alluding to wine. I believe the books set up water and wine as opposites (although there is acknowledgement that water is needed to grow grapes). Tyrion's travels on a river and on the sea, his deliberate dive into a river and his unhappy fall into the river when he is attacked by the stone man, the ship running out of wine (forcing Tyrion to drink watered rum), etc. are all part of a transition for Tyrion, I believe. He may still love all wine, but he has a growing relationship with water. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

 

Burgundy is the ideal color for a wine, I'm sure that was intentional. I just don't get why it should be a name drop of the region Burgundy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the "death" of Gregor, House Clegane is gone.

GRRM made Sandor join the Kingsguard in order to remove him from the sucession line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ckram said:

With the "death" of Gregor, House Clegane is gone.

GRRM made Sandor join the Kingsguard in order to remove him from the succession line.

Seems as if he took himself out of the kings guard, though.

But it wouldn't surprise me if House Clegane dies out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Seams said:

Seems as if he took himself out of the kings guard, though.

This quick "join and leave" is precisely why I think it was a plot demand.

And leaving kingsguard makes it all even worse for Sandor (and House Clegane). No wise ruler would pardon him.

Only Sansa would have an personal reason to accept him... Well, and maybe there we have it, a reasonable use for the unkiss: setting things up so Sansa have a reason to intercede for the Hound.

If so, I see three possible scenarios:

  1. Sansa saves the Hound, and we'll have an at least platonic love story;
  2. Sansa intercedes for the Hound but he gets killed anyway, and then she'll hate the person who murdered him;
  3. Sansa recall that she have already did something similar for Dontos and it turned out that he sold her to Littlefinger, and then Sansa, in a similar fashion of Jon Snow's "kill the boy" demeanor, won't intercede for the Hound - and the love story expectancy will turn into ashes.

Ok, enough with fanfics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Ckram said:

With the "death" of Gregor, House Clegane is gone.

GRRM made Sandor join the Kingsguard in order to remove him from the sucession line.

Sandor did not say the vows.

He was given the cloak anyway.

A Game of Thrones - Sansa V     "How do you like that, dog?" King Joffrey asked.   The Hound's scarred face was hard to read. He took a long moment to consider. "Why not? I have no lands nor wife to forsake, and who'd care if I did?" The burned side of his mouth twisted. "But I warn you, I'll say no knight's vows."    "The Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard have always been knights," Ser Boros said firmly.    "Until now," the Hound said in his deep rasp, and Ser Boros fell silent./

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Sandor did not say the vows.

Always the technicalities... Thanks!

Edited by Ckram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×