U.S. Politics- This Is Us, Basically Fascists

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

57 minutes ago, aceluby said:

And "well regulated"....

Wait until conservatives get to the bit where the federal government can tax people for the general welfare of the country…..  

[aceluby]

1 minute ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Wait until conservatives get to the bit where the federal government can tax people for the general welfare of the country…..  

There are only 3 amendments.  The 2nd amendment, the 1st (but only if it means pushing christianity or buying politicians), and the 10th; in order of importance.

That is the conservative constitution.  It is known.

[Ormond]

2 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I’d take her just to see what happens when Trump keeps calling her Pocahontas. I think most people would be grossed out by it.

 

Oh come on. Trump did not invent the "Pocahontas" slur himself. He adopted it from right wing websites that have been using it ever since Elizabeth Warren became a political figure. It is a reference to the right wing claim that she falsely stated she had Native American ancestry in order to get her job as a Harvard professor, and so directly plays into the beliefs of those in the Trump base who think they are being persecuted for being White and that anyone who claims to be a minority has unfair advantages. It manages to imply BOTH that she's a "liberal elitist" AND that she is a liar, cheat, and "anti-White" all at the same time. I think it fires up Trump's base much more than it "grosses out" the average person who is not in his base.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, aceluby said:

There are only 3 amendments.  The 2nd amendment, the 1st (but only if it means pushing christianity or buying politicians), and the 10th; in order of importance.

That is the conservative constitution.  It is known.

The welfare clause comes from Article 1, Section 8, so suck it Originalists!   

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Oh come on. Trump did not invent the "Pocahontas" slur himself. He adopted it from right wing websites that have been using it ever since Elizabeth Warren became a political figure. It is a reference to the right wing claim that she falsely stated she had Native American ancestry in order to get her job as a Harvard professor, and so directly plays into the beliefs of those in the Trump base who think they are being persecuted for being White and that anyone who claims to be a minority has unfair advantages. It manages to imply BOTH that she's a "liberal elitist" AND that she is a liar, cheat, and "anti-White" all at the same time. I think it fires up Trump's base much more than it "grosses out" the average person who is not in his base.

No he did not, but he uses it in a ham-fisted way that will turn off moderates. My best guess is that a majority of people don’t even know that he makes the reference, and they’ll be turned off when he does so in a highly publicized debate.    

[Serious Callers Only]

Rand Paul is going to take his marching orders from Russia again.

The funny part about this is that they don't need to go there to get the orders so he's likely been summoned in person, probably to deepen the kompromat again. From taking campaign money from Russia to dead male underage hookers Rand? More likely than you might think. Maybe it's just a promise of a suitcase of 'campaign money', but i bet it won't be left at that.

And of course it's the 'Russian lawmakers' that let everyone know. Freedom caucus eh.

[Zorral]

If any such thing as a "moderate voter" was to be 'grossed out' by racist and sexist remarks the orange nazi wouldn't be POTUS now.  And you think referring to a woman by the name of an historical Native American princess is going to do that????????????????  That is naive as hell.

Beyond that, no way in hell any woman can run for POTUS -- especially if she's not of the party of the orange nazi -- and win after what happened with Hillary showed the country's true colors.  So to speak.  Again, naive, naive, naive -- or at least detached from the reality that is where we are in this country.

Of course, the Dems can be so demoralized by their belief that no Dem candidate can win, that they prefer a woman to run because they can blame it on a woman.  It's been done many times before, in places, in many elections for many different offices.

 

[Week]

38 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Oh come on. Trump did not invent the "Pocahontas" slur himself. He adopted it from right wing websites that have been using it ever since Elizabeth Warren became a political figure. It is a reference to the right wing claim that she falsely stated she had Native American ancestry in order to get her job as a Harvard professor, and so directly plays into the beliefs of those in the Trump base who think they are being persecuted for being White and that anyone who claims to be a minority has unfair advantages. It manages to imply BOTH that she's a "liberal elitist" AND that she is a liar, cheat, and "anti-White" all at the same time. I think it fires up Trump's base much more than it "grosses out" the average person who is not in his base.

There is, of course, no evidence to suggest that she intentionally made the claim for professional benefit nor did she receive any benefit (whether sought for or not).

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/is-elizabeth-warren-native-american-or-what/257415/

Trump is only hurting himself by more frequently and inappropriately using the slur.

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/14/17012798/elizabeth-warren-speech-native-american-american-indian-pocahontas-trump

Quote

“I’ve noticed that every time my name comes up, President Trump likes to talk about Pocahontas,” Warren began her speech. “So I figured, let’s talk about Pocahontas. Not Pocahontas, the fictional character most Americans know from the movies, but Pocahontas, the native woman who really lived, and whose real story has been passed down to so many of you through the generations.”

“Indigenous people have been telling the story of Pocahontas — the real Pocahontas — for four centuries. A story of heroism. And bravery. And pain,” she continued. “And, for almost as long, her story has been taken away by powerful people who twisted it to serve their own purposes.”

“Our country’s disrespect of native people didn’t start with President Trump. It started long before President Washington ever took office,” she said. “But now we have a president who can’t make it through a ceremony honoring Native American war heroes without reducing native history, native culture, native people to the butt of a joke. The joke, I guess, is supposed to be on me.”

She denounced past American leaders, most notably President Andrew Jackson, for their complicity in “the stain of genocide,” saying, “It is deeply offensive that this president keeps a portrait of Andrew Jackson hanging in the Oval Office, honoring a man who did his best to wipe out native people.”

 

[TheKitttenGuard]

18 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Beyond that, no way in hell any woman can run for POTUS -- especially if she's not of the party of the orange nazi -- and win after what happened with Hillary showed the country's true colors.  So to speak.  Again, naive, naive, naive -- or at least detached from the reality that is where we are in this country.

Hillary had plently of problems of being Hillary. She was in the public and political spotlight for almost 25 years. Yes some issue could of just from a deep seated Sexism. Yet this inability to understand she had issues ranging being the epitome of the Corporatist, Uber-Hawkish Democrat that gets bemoan here to simply being a lifetime of focus as the ultimate evil on Right Wing media and circles. This is such a blind spot on this board.

[DanteGabriel]

On 8/1/2018 at 12:06 PM, Frog Eater said:

In 2014, a study released by a team of professors from Old Dominion University and George Mason University estimated that approximately 6.4 percent of noncitizens voted In the 2008 presidential election. They also surmised that 2.2 percent voted in the 2010 midterm election.²⁰ In addition, the study estimated that 80 percent of noncitizens who appeared to have voted cast their ballots in favor of one party. Noncitizens are believed to have voted in these elections in numbers great enough to have affected the outcome.

Nate Silver, an acclaimed statistician with the forecasting firm Five Thirty Eight, calculated that states with newly implemented voter ID laws will experience turnout decrease by as much as 2.4 percent of the registered voter population.²¹ Opponents of voter ID laws claim that any decreases in voter turnout are evidence that legal voters have been disenfranchised – discounting the possibility that the reductions are due to decreased participation by non-citizens. But, as Silver has noted, this argument doesn’t make sense because the vast majority of adults in America hold some form of photo identification and states with voter ID laws offer qualifying documentation at minimal or no cost. While it is impossible to prove that Silver’s entire 2.4 percent estimated turnout decrease is entirely attributable to noncitizen voters, it is highly likely that foreign nationals without authorization to vote will constitute the majority of this group. And Silver’s numbers are consistent with the results of other studies more specifically focused on reducing unlawful noncitizen voting.

If we take the mean of these three estimates -- 7.25 percent -- and apply it to just the 22 million non-citizen residents currently in the United States, then approximately 1.6 million non-citizens vote every year. According to the high and low estimates here, that number could be as high as 2.9 million (at 13 percent of 22 million), or as low as 528,000 (2.4 percent of 22 million). Both are unacceptably high numbers.

https://www.fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/noncitizens-voting-violations-and-us-elections

 

I have to thank you. Your indefatigable shitposting informed by racist and crank sites, and the authoritative debunkings they get from anyone with two neurons to rub together, provide most of the joy I get out of US Politics these days. Without your dim, regurgitated bullshit and the entertainment of the responses, these threads would be so dreary and depressing.

Thank you, Frog Eater, for volunteering to be the earnest comic relief in this thread. I mean, this kind of comically relentless ignorance couldn't be for real, right?

[Zorral]

20 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Hillary had plently of problems of being Hillary. She was in the public and political spotlight for almost 25 years. Yes some issue could of just from a deep seated Sexism. Yet this inability to understand she had issues ranging being the epitome of the Corporatist, Uber-Hawkish Democrat that gets bemoan here to simply being a lifetime of focus as the ultimate evil on Right Wing media and circles. This is such a blind spot on this board.

We all or most of us anyway, recognized all this / knew / know it very well and posted about all this extensively back during the nom campaigns, the campaigns, the election, the post-election and even now. I even saw first hand in PA during the nominating convention itself, and before and after, her campaign's failures in that state, not only with the rabidly pro-orange nazi voters, but with those voters who would have voted for her.  And posted about it right here.

[Fragile Bird]

Remember I asked what the hell was going on, when Bush Sr.’s former physician was gunned down? Turns out the killer probably had a 20 year long grudge. The doctor operated on the man’s mother but the surgery failed and she died.

Now that’s right out of a murder mystery novel.

[TheKitttenGuard]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

We all or most of us anyway, recognized all this / knew / know it very well and posted about all this extensively back during the nom campaigns, the campaigns, the election, the post-election and even now. I even saw first hand in PA during the nominating convention itself, and before and after, her campaign's failures in that state, not only with the rabidly pro-orange nazi voters, but with those voters who would have voted for her.  And posted about it right here.

Well, that portion of the post gave the apperance that if Hillary could not win (the Electoral College) then no woman candidate can because of Sexism. Hillary had her own problems that she refused to really face and got caught oddly flat footed many times in the race.

Trump is going to have incumbency and is a built in advantage in 2020. Warren, Gillibrand, and Harris may not be as strong as Hillary yet they have less weaknesses than Hillary had.

[Zorral]

3 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Well, that portion of the post gave the apperance that if Hillary could not win (the Electoral College) then no woman candidate can because of Sexism. Hillary had her own problems that she refused to really face and got caught oddly flat footed many times in the race.

Trump is going to have incumbency and is a built in advantage in 2020. Warren, Gillibrand, and Harris may not be as strong as Hillary yet they have less weaknesses than Hillary had.

Sexism, overt and less public, is stronger than it's been in years, and like hatred fostered for the press and journalists, is growing in leaps and bounds.  The anger and resentment against women for #MeToo cannot be over-estimated. (Yah, yah, yah, "I haven't seen that," say (white) men.

Factor in gerrymandering, voter repression and supression and RUSSIAN AND OTHERS'S MEDDLING, highly organized and deeply funded -- and sheesh, Gillibrand?  she's gonna fire up Dems to vote, she who is against regulation of guns etc?  She says NOW she supports certain things that she's always previously been against.  Few New Yorkers anyway, who honestly care a great deal about these issues such as gun regulation and immigration, who have known her for years now, are seeing her current opportunist stances with any enthusiasm whatsoever.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

If any such thing as a "moderate voter" was to be 'grossed out' by racist and sexist remarks the orange nazi wouldn't be POTUS now.  And you think referring to a woman by the name of an historical Native American princess is going to do that????????????????  That is naive as hell.

Beyond that, no way in hell any woman can run for POTUS -- especially if she's not of the party of the orange nazi -- and win after what happened with Hillary showed the country's true colors.  So to speak.  Again, naive, naive, naive -- or at least detached from the reality that is where we are in this country.

Of course, the Dems can be so demoralized by their belief that no Dem candidate can win, that they prefer a woman to run because they can blame it on a woman.  It's been done many times before, in places, in many elections for many different offices.

 

You have to consider that there is a new dynamic: being openly racist to someone’s face. That will be more unsettling to your average voter than a lot of the other bigoted comments Trump has made.

And you’re misguided to say that a woman can’t win, or at least a Democratic woman. As was said, Hillary came with her own unique baggage, and a lot of it played into the negative (and complete BS) stereotypes associate with women and power.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Trump is going to have incumbency and is a built in advantage in 2020. Warren, Gillibrand, and Harris may not be as strong as Hillary yet they have less weaknesses than Hillary had.

In a bizarre sense, Trump might be the first candidate whose incumbency might not be a net advantage. Obviously there are myriad advantages that come with holding office while campaigning, but one thing that aided Trump in 2016 was that he had no record to attack. That won’t be the case in 2020.

[aceluby]

10 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

In a bizarre sense, Trump might be the first candidate whose incumbency might not be a net advantage. Obviously there are myriad advantages that come with holding office while campaigning, but one thing that aided Trump in 2016 was that he had no record to attack. That won’t be the case in 2020.

I think this is being downplayed a lot on this board.  Many people voted for him because he talked out of both sides and you weren't sure what you were going to get.  Now everyone knows exactly what he is and it's going to be a lot harder to swindle those people he promised the world to, but couldn't deliver.  Then on top of that he's galvanized his opposition in an unprecedented way. 

I think he has an extremely uphill battle where it's going to be difficult campaigning in the same scorched earth fashion with the record he has built up.

[Frog Eater]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/01/names-non-us-citizens-increasingly-found-on-voter-rolls.html

The group says that a large portion of the non-citizens even managed to cast their ballots in elections as well. For instance, in 2017, the group found that nearly 5,600 people on the voter rolls in Virginia were deemed as non-citizens, with a third of them voting in previous elections.

I am shocked, shocked I say

https://publicinterestlegal.org/blog/report-how-noncitizens-vote-in-allegheny-county-pa/

Key Findings

• 139 instances of noncitizen voter registration and eventual cancellation were disclosed by the County from 2006 to 2018.
• 27 percent of noncitizens cast at least one ballot prior to removal.
• Noncitizens remain registered for an average of six years before they are removed.
• 71 percent of noncitizens self-reported their ineligible registrations at great legal risk.
• 63 percent of noncitizens were registered in PennDOT transactions.
• Allegheny County officials raised alarm about the system failures with the Commonwealth in 2008.

It appears that just an ID to vote wont be enough until controls can be put into place to prevent the registration of non-citizens. 

[Week]

27 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

It appears that just an ID to vote wont be enough until controls can be put into place to prevent the registration of non-citizens. 

No, it does not appear that way.

However, it does appear that you will share racist conspiracy theorist sources without any acknowledgement or apology. (FAIRUS) I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!

[mormont]

42 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

• 139 instances of noncitizen voter registration and eventual cancellation were disclosed by the County from 2006 to 2018.
• 27 percent of noncitizens cast at least one ballot prior to removal.

This comes out to about two instances of non-citizens voting per year.