Week Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, Heartofice said: If you are saying that boys are more likely to be interested in Superhero movies, especially ones about super-beings punching the crap out of each other, then yeah I agree with that. Not to say that girls wouldn't be interested, but I think it is definitely more in line with something that on average boys would be more attracted to. Naturally so or due to gender/cultural coding impressed on people since birth that continues in all aspects of society? Please cite your sources that all girls are biologically coded to NOT like Superhero movies and therefore we should not encourage girls that DO like them to feel included. Let them continue to feel marginalized as everyone says "it's for boys and men -- not girls!". An effort to create an inclusive atmosphere is pretty fucking far from "disgusting". That reaction is pretty offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Just now, Week said: Naturally so or due to gender/cultural coding impressed on people since birth that continues in all aspects of society? Please cite your sources that all girls are biologically coded to NOT like Superhero movies and therefore we should not encourage girls that DO like them to feel included. Let them continue to feel marginalized as everyone says "it's for boys and men -- not girls!". An effort to create an inclusive atmosphere is pretty fucking far from "disgusting". That reaction is pretty offensive. Probably a mix, but I think a big part of it is biological yes. I'm not going to get into a huge debate about it and start pulling out scientific journals etc, that could go on for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Let the record reflect that my statement was given clearly and I wash my hands of further discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 All I'm really seeing from recent posts here is a total lack of self-awareness, but to be clear: even if one concedes, for the sake of idle amusement, that little girls are less likely to be interested in watching superhero movies than little boys are, one must admit that this is at least partly because the vast majority of superhero movies feature male leads. Ergo, the case for encouraging girls to watch one of the few that features a female lead. Now, if it turns out that the fundraiser can't find little girls who actually want to go, or if they all hate the movie, get back to us at that point. Otherwise, let's consider this conversation over and further discussion to be a pointless waste of everyone's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 31 minutes ago, mormont said: All I'm really seeing from recent posts here is a total lack of self-awareness, but to be clear: even if one concedes, for the sake of idle amusement, that little girls are less likely to be interested in watching superhero movies than little boys are, one must admit that this is at least partly because the vast majority of superhero movies feature male leads. Ergo, the case for encouraging girls to watch one of the few that features a female lead. Now, if it turns out that the fundraiser can't find little girls who actually want to go, or if they all hate the movie, get back to us at that point. Otherwise, let's consider this conversation over and further discussion to be a pointless waste of everyone's time. Again, probably opening a whole can of worms to get into a conversation about whether preferences are caused by social or biological factors. My personal opinion is that its going to be a complex mix of both. I'm interested in whether there is any evidence that girl will not watch movies with male leads, is that an issue? I couldn't find too much doing a quick google, but for instance in the linked PDF there is a gender breakdown of the top 5 grossing movies of 2016. The average was a 50/50 split, but there were 2 movies that were more like 60/40 in terms of male viewership; Rogue One and Marvel Civil War. Rogue One features a female lead and obviously Civil War is mostly guys. Not conclusive either way, would girls be more likely to watch Rogue One as it has a female lead? https://www.mpaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/MPAA-Theatrical-Market-Statistics-2016_Final-1.pdf Oh and also there is this:https://www.statista.com/statistics/696186/movie-audience-distribution-gender/ Wonder Woman has a slight 51/49% split in favour of female audience, but then there is only a 51/49% split in favour of males for Spidey Homecoming. Last Jedi also had a large male audience, despite it having a female lead and grumbles from incels about feminism. Really I'm not sure there is much evidence that male leads in movies stops women wanting to watch. I've never met a woman who doesn't love the Taken movies I'd suggest the type of movie and the genre is a far better indicator of whether there will be more female interest. Women seem to be more prominent in the bigger grossing animated movies, movies that don't tend to involve mostly crashing and smashing, violence and shooty lasers. I'm not sure that surprises anyone does it? So maybe there is no great barrier to preventing girls from watching Superhero movies, other than they are basically designed for young boys, because young boys tend to like big flashy costumed people fighting each other and blowing stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Allow me to respond with one of my infamous emoji only posts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Is Ronan supposed to be lovable this time or at least garner more sympathy? That would imply the events of this film help to turn him into the space meanie the Guardians met. So this kind of telegraphs that whatever side he's on in this movie loses and he is the MCU's lil' Boba Fett left cradling his father's helmet, or some other analogy. I' m worried about how I don't respond well to the space mohawk. Am I supposed to see her mohawk and shout out an involuntary Marv Albert "Yes!" ? It does open the door for mohawk humor from Fury though, maybe a Mr. T mention or cameo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Heartofice said: In the history of time have you ever said anything worthwhile? Or funny? Yes, he has. I won't ask the same of you as it would be rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: So maybe there is no great barrier to preventing girls from watching Superhero movies, other than they are basically designed for young boys, because young boys tend to like big flashy costumed people fighting each other and blowing stuff up. You seem to be wilfully misunderstanding this even though it’s been explained a few times now. The idea is not to overcome some kind of sociological barrier that stops girls watching superhero movies, it’s to allow some girls who maybe otherwise wouldn’t have the opportunity to have a positive experience based on gender tropes they don’t usually see (and also hopefully enjoy a film). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, john said: You seem to be wilfully misunderstanding this even though it’s been explained a few times now. The idea is not to overcome some kind of sociological barrier that stops girls watching superhero movies, it’s to allow some girls who maybe otherwise wouldn’t have the opportunity to have a positive experience based on gender tropes they don’t usually see (and also hopefully enjoy a film). . I was responding to Mormont's claim that girls don't watch superhero movies due to them being led my male actors. I'm questioning that assumption because I'm not seeing a great deal of evidence for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, Heartofice said: . I was responding to Mormont's claim that girls don't watch superhero movies due to them being led my male actors. I'm questioning that assumption because I'm not seeing a great deal of evidence for it. "I was responding to Mormont's claim that boys don't watch superhero/action/comedy* movies due to them being led by female actors. I'm questioning that assumption because I'm not seeing a great deal of evidence for it." *expanding due to lack of representation ... but ... Gamergate, the backlash for Ghostbusters, TLJ, etc. ... there is no reason that the opposite of your statement shouldn't be true. So, ya wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Heartofice said: [snip] 3 hours ago, mormont said: a pointless waste of everyone's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: . I was responding to Mormont's claim that girls don't watch superhero movies due to them being led my male actors. I'm questioning that assumption because I'm not seeing a great deal of evidence for it. Firstly, what mormont said was that even if it’s true that girls don’t watch superhero movies it’s at least partly due to them having male leads. Anyway, my point is that the GoFundMe page in question is not interested in whether girls watch superhero movies, it’s interested in possibly deprived girls having a positive cinema experience with a female role model. The gender dynamics of film attendance have nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 7 hours ago, john said: Firstly, what mormont said was that even if it’s true that girls don’t watch superhero movies it’s at least partly due to them having male leads. Well I was trying to get to the bottom of that statement, because you know, he still said it and so far it seems like its a baseless assertion with little evidence behind it. 7 hours ago, john said: Anyway, my point is that the GoFundMe page in question is not interested in whether girls watch superhero movies, it’s interested in possibly deprived girls having a positive cinema experience with a female role model. The gender dynamics of film attendance have nothing to do with it. Well thats why I was asking the question so that you would clarify because your original post was unclear when you said "The notion is that more young girls will be able to see the movie, it’s about representation." it sounded like the underrepresentation of girls watching superhero movies was due to some reason other than them simply being less interested in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 It's a bit sad these questions don't arise when there's a male led superhero film. Hopefully when films directed by and starring a female lead aren't events that'll be an achievement in itself. I guess we can also speculate that males don't appear to be put off these films either (besides the very vocal idiots who don't seem to damage the box office - they probably unwittingly promote the film) It's almost fun/scary to think Disney is actually conducting a self-funding social experiment to see whether there is gender/ethnicity bias in who likes superhero movies and whether that is due to the gender/ethnicity of the directors/stars. Phase 1-2 were getting the baseline controls with white male superhero films that make a shitload of money and now they are mixing it up with Black Panther and Captain Marvel. At the moment we can't really conclude anything as there aren't enough "test" films to draw a conclusion. I suspect they are just conducting experiments into how to make money but capitalism often has beneficiary side-effects. Maybe the Fast and furious franchise has been conducting a similar experiment? Not sure what they are trying to find out beyond the fact that Dwayne Johnson sells tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, red snow said: It's a bit sad these questions don't arise when there's a male led superhero film. Hopefully when films directed by and starring a female lead aren't events that'll be an achievement in itself. I guess we can also speculate that males don't appear to be put off these films either (besides the very vocal idiots who don't seem to damage the box office - they probably unwittingly promote the film) I think the most interesting thing is that comic book movies have become so insanely popular that they have actually become the default value when it comes to big screen blockbuster movie. If you'd asked the question 15 years ago of 'why don't girls watch comic book movies' then people would have looked at you like you were a bit dim, in the same way that if you asked why men don't watch romantic comedies. Now Marvel are so enormous that making movies that usually are aimed at teenage boys is discriminatory. 13 minutes ago, red snow said: It's almost fun/scary to think Disney is actually conducting a self-funding social experiment to see whether there is gender/ethnicity bias in who likes superhero movies and whether that is due to the gender/ethnicity of the directors/stars. Yes it would be amusing if they were doing that. Clearly they have just looked at the gaps in the market and where can they fill them, make a bit more cash. Fair play to them thats capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Heartofice said: Well I was trying to get to the bottom of that statement, because you know, he still said it and so far it seems like its a baseless assertion with little evidence behind it. He was replying to your assertion that there is a complex list of factors that leads to less girls watching superhero movies. You don’t think that complex list of factors could possibly include the fact that they have male leads? 2 hours ago, Heartofice said: Well thats why I was asking the question so that you would clarify because your original post was unclear when you said "The notion is that more young girls will be able to see the movie, it’s about representation." it sounded like the underrepresentation of girls watching superhero movies was due to some reason other than them simply being less interested in them. In this case it’s due to them not being able to afford a ticket because of family circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Can we all agree that it's shameful we never got a standalone Black Widow movie where that slut Jeremy Renner tries to seduce the virtuous Ruskie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, john said: He was replying to your assertion that there is a complex list of factors that leads to less girls watching superhero movies. You don’t think that complex list of factors could possibly include the fact that they have male leads? Of course. I’m questioning whether girls choose to not see movies because there is a male lead. Didn’t seem to be much evidence for that though and if it’s a factor at all it’s very minor. I’d suggest that the major reason is that super hero movies have always been aimed at teenage boys , that a bunch of people fighting each other and smashing into things appeals more to a male demographic than a female one. Adding a female lead to a movie that still does those things probably doesn’t make it more appealing to girls. Though hopefully for Marvel their marketing specifically for girls will hope to change that for them.In this case it’s due to them not being able to afford a ticket because of family circumstances. 10 minutes ago, john said: In this case it’s due to them not being able to afford a ticket because of family circumstances. Right, but then also there are boys who cannot afford tickets. So when you say it’s about representation, how is it about representation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 36 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Didn’t seem to be much evidence for that though and if it’s a factor at all it’s very minor. Sounds like you agree with mormont then, that it is partly the reason. 43 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Right, but then also there are boys who cannot afford tickets. So when you say it’s about representation, how is it about representation? Because the fundraiser isn’t offering tickets to boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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