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[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

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2 hours ago, Low Sparrow said:

Why is Tyrion still alive?

Should be dead.

Daenerys should have killed him when she killed varys as Tyrion told Varys about Jon without informing her. That's treacherous. 

Cersei should have killed him with arrows at the parlay. Daenerys should have been informed immediately after Jamie escaped and killed him. And why did he suddenly care about Cersei...at all? 

Jon should have died first by Drogon and if not that, as soon as he confessed to greyworm, instant death. But it happened off screen so maybe we aren't supposed to think about it?

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Just now, darmody said:

The closest guess I can make is that they assumed people remember "The King in the North!" chant, have it in their minds that Northern independence is now a permanent Stark thing, and they owed a debt to Sansa for season Five and had to make good with a queenship . 

Yeah, I strongly assume that this is just some ridiculous fan service. Their way of apologizing for the ridiculous Sansa rape plot. If they had planned or prepared for anything of that sort then Sansa would have been chosen queen back when she had fed Ramsay to the dogs - but back then they were downplaying her role in everything, even rejecting Littlefinger's offer to bring in the Vale.

One could see the North being independent if the Seven Kingdoms devolved to a pre-Conquest state and no longer had a central monarchy, but giving it the special privilege of independence in light of the fact that they basically all worked together to defeat the Others and even installed a Stark king in the Red Keep that makes no sense.

That's like the King of England is chosen from the leading noble family Northumbria but Northumbrians themselves secede from England and crown their monarch, a sibling of the King of England.

That is utterly ridiculous and makes no political sense in any scenario whatsoever. Instead, it is a recipe for disaster and future political strife. After all, the successor of 'the King of the Six Kingdoms' could derive a claim to the North from the mere fact that his predecessor was of the same house as the current ruling family of the North and vice versa. Wouldn't Sansa's children - assuming she ever has any - get the notion they should succeed Uncle Bran?

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25 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

snip

I am pretty suspicious that the Queen in The North thing was D&D giving the fandom the finger, one last time, for the criticism they received for season 5.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I am pretty suspicious that the Queen in The North thing was D&D giving the fandom the finger, one last time, for the criticism they received for season 5.

yeah..actually I am pretty suspicious that the whole last episode was D&D giving the fandom the finger, one last time, for the criticism they received from season 5.

Edited by Kikajon

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40 minutes ago, teej6 said:

It wasn’t brought up because in D&D’s world characters have collective amnesia or they have split personalities. Tyrion is not the same character from one episode to the next. Does D&D even remember that they had Tyrion super concerned about Dany not having an heir last season because not having an heir would be bad for the future of the kingdoms? But now he is of the opinion that the King/Queen having no heir is the perfect solution to ensure peace in the future. WTF! The inconsistencies in this show, the plot holes, and the illogical storylines are at an astonishing level, and to think it was the darling of critics and award shows. 

The kindofforgettism seems to be contagious. Must be a virus or something.

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42 minutes ago, iprayiam said:

Meanwhile, I don't think the 'same universe' effect will hold nearly as much appeal as people think. It is thrown around a lot with Harry Potter and Star Wars, but never actually done in practice outside of very close timelines and character connections to the OS.

One word: Revan. The Knights of the Old Republic really did it, and now we're having Dumb and Dumber potentially going for this very era.

SW has one big advantage, though: the state of the galaxy doesn't matter as long as you have the Jedi, them flashy lightsabres do wonders. I don't see such a unifying element in Westeros, though, unless you put in dragons.

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3 hours ago, divica said:

That is some world-class spin.  Not surprising, though.  There are many (especially in the entertainment industry) who live by the old adage "There's no such thing as bad press!"  I love them falling back on the old canard "Oh well, you can never please everyone".  Riiiight!  How many shows have had this level of decrease in popularity right at the end?  How many shows have had a petition to re-do the finale signed by well over a million people?  I mean, the petition could never actually result in its stated purpose...but it does send a message.

But keep on spinnin' HBO and those who've been associated with this abomination.  Let's just hope this amount of spin doesn't throw the Earth of its axis or something:rolleyes:

2 hours ago, Kikajon said:

HBO & all the actors and people involved in the series will never admit the level of disruption inadequacy shame (I am lacking the words) they have created. Everyone one of them will defend in spite of every evidence their work in order to get at least some money back. I bet no one will ever publicly admit the level of disaster and money loss this last series will bring about. If they did some heads might roll, it's the way it goes in (badly managed) business.

Agreed.  But I can't blame the actors, etc.  After all, they could only do what they were allowed and told to do.  And we know that if anyone dared disagree with the showrunners they'd likely be punished/fired.  I lay the blame solely at the feet of the showrunners.  And they and HBO will just keep on spinnin'.

3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I am pretty suspicious that the Queen in The North thing was D&D giving the fandom the finger, one last time, for the criticism they received for season 5.

Agreed.  An independent North with the rest of the kingdoms remaining under King Brandon Stark, First of his Name...makes absolutely no sense.  So I don't think that's how it will actually go (assuming we see it...)

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10 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

One word: Revan. The Knights of the Old Republic really did it, and now we're having Dumb and Dumber potentially going for this very era.

SW has one big advantage, though: the state of the galaxy doesn't matter as long as you have the Jedi, them flashy lightsabres do wonders. I don't see such a unifying element in Westeros, though, unless you put in dragons.

Well I didn't really mean Alternative media and video games. I really don't think the next star wars trilogy by D&D will have much appeal precisely because it's unrelated to the OS. They're throwing Palpatine into Ep 9 for goodness sake jut to harvest nostalgia.

A Nearly totally disconnected prequel series threaded by the biggest anticlimax of the show (WWs) is such a bad idea. It will be just close enough to confuse casuals and feel repetitive and just far enough to estrange us from any preexisting investment. If it succeeds, it will be IN SPITE of the GoT connection, not because of it.

I don't even understand what the unifying aesthetic is supposed to be? There's no GOT look and feel that will make sense to exist thousands of years previously. It's not like Star Wars where (done right) one look says, yeah that's the same universe.

Again, why Valyria would have been the better choice. A fresh aesthetic template, retaining only Dragons and the Targaryen name.

 

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14 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I am pretty suspicious that the Queen in The North thing was D&D giving the fandom the finger, one last time, for the criticism they received for season 5.

I think the last three episodes were D & D giving us the finger.

What's infuriating is that Episode 5 is visually stunning, but turned out to be just an excuse to get Daenerys out of the way at the end   What I had hoped for in the final episode was her providing a reasoned, if cruel, justification for her actions, setting up a real moral dilemma for Jon. eg her saying "I take no pleasure in any of this, but my enemies have to know that when they defy me, they will lose everything.  I hope there will never be any need to do this again."   But, no she's just become a mad Nazi who wants to conquer the world, and it's obvious she just has to be put down. 

Then just a load of random stuff, most of which makes no sense.  Either Drogon or Dany's bodyguards should have killed Jon on the spot.   Bran has none of the qualifications for kinship;  Bronn has none of the qualifications for being Master of Coin;  Edmure is there as a butt monkey;  Yara forgets that the Iron Islands are now independent;  nobody minds the North declaring independence. 

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3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I think the last three episodes were D & D giving us the finger.

What's infuriating is that Episode 5 is visually stunning, but turned out to be just an excuse to get Daenerys out of the way at the end   What I had hoped for in the final episode was her providing a reasoned, if cruel, justification for her actions, setting up a real moral dilemma for Jon. eg her saying "I take no pleasure in any of this, but my enemies have to know that when they defy me, they will lose everything.  I hope there will never be any need to do this again."   But, no she's just become a mad Nazi who wants to conquer the world, and it's obvious she just has to be put down. 

Then just a load of random stuff, most of which makes no sense.  Either Drogon or Dany's bodyguards should have killed Jon on the spot.   Bran has none of the qualifications for kinship;  Bronn has none of the qualifications for being Master of Coin;  Edmure is there as a butt monkey;  Yara forgets that the Iron Islands are now independent;  nobody minds the North declaring independence. 

I didn't mind her decision to go on a perpetual war of conquest to 'liberate' everyone, I minded that the idea still was never given enough time to develop.  Jon spends 5 minutes one time to try to convince Dany she's wrong and then kills her.  That's terrible storytelling.  At least this should have been 2 or 3 episodes with numerous scenes where we seen Dany ordering the POWs killed, Dany making ready to march on Dorne/Winterfell, more detail on Dany's reasoning and her future plans, more scenes of Jon trying to reason w/her and failing and then, okay I will never like him stabbing her, it reeks of cliche, but at least I could feel he's tried hard to persuade her off her path.

The great council and small council scenes were beyond terrible and stupid, no amount of fan wanking can redeem them.  

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I didn't mind her decision to go on a perpetual war of conquest to 'liberate' everyone, I minded that the idea still was never given enough time to develop.  Jon spends 5 minutes one time to try to convince Dany she's wrong and then kills her.  That's terrible storytelling.  At least this should have been 2 or 3 episodes with numerous scenes where we seen Dany ordering the POWs killed, Dany making ready to march on Dorne/Winterfell, more detail on Dany's reasoning and her future plans, more scenes of Jon trying to reason w/her and failing and then, okay I will never like him stabbing her, it reeks of cliche, but at least I could feel he's tried hard to persuade her off her path.

The great council and small council scenes were beyond terrible and stupid, no amount of fan wanking can redeem them.  

I can’t even properly quantify the Jon and Daeny relationship. They were together a short time, but apparently it wasn’t much more than quick bang because he fell out of love as soon as she saved his ass from the zombies and ice dragon.

Edited by tallTale

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12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I didn't mind her decision to go on a perpetual war of conquest to 'liberate' everyone, I minded that the idea still was never given enough time to develop.  Jon spends 5 minutes one time to try to convince Dany she's wrong and then kills her.  That's terrible storytelling.  At least this should have been 2 or 3 episodes with numerous scenes where we seen Dany ordering the POWs killed, Dany making ready to march on Dorne/Winterfell, more detail on Dany's reasoning and her future plans, more scenes of Jon trying to reason w/her and failing and then, okay I will never like him stabbing her, it reeks of cliche, but at least I could feel he's tried hard to persuade her off her path.

The great council and small council scenes were beyond terrible and stupid, no amount of fan wanking can redeem them.  

Or it could have been made much more of a pattern.  If Dany really had acted like Genghis Khan in the East, rather than performing some acts which were cruel or debateable, but not really out of the ordinary for the this world;  or if she'd led chevauchees into territory held by Cersei, butchering peasants and burning towns, both the burning of kings Landing, and Jon seeing it as the last straw, would be more believable.

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36 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

One word: Revan. The Knights of the Old Republic really did it, and now we're having Dumb and Dumber potentially going for this very era.

SW has one big advantage, though: the state of the galaxy doesn't matter as long as you have the Jedi, them flashy lightsabres do wonders. I don't see such a unifying element in Westeros, though, unless you put in dragons.

Star Wars has the whole Extended Universe of books, video games, comics. The movies all hew closely to the Skywalker family and Death Stars because they cost a lot of money and studios want to be safe. But they could experiment on a more modest scale if they felt like it. So long as it is a Space Opera with the Force and lightsabers would be advisable. Also humanoid robots.

Dragons, T&A, wolves, and surprising violent deaths are Game of Thrones signatures I guess. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I didn't mind her decision to go on a perpetual war of conquest to 'liberate' everyone, I minded that the idea still was never given enough time to develop.  Jon spends 5 minutes one time to try to convince Dany she's wrong and then kills her.  That's terrible storytelling.  At least this should have been 2 or 3 episodes with numerous scenes where we seen Dany ordering the POWs killed, Dany making ready to march on Dorne/Winterfell, more detail on Dany's reasoning and her future plans, more scenes of Jon trying to reason w/her and failing and then, okay I will never like him stabbing her, it reeks of cliche, but at least I could feel he's tried hard to persuade her off her path.

The great council and small council scenes were beyond terrible and stupid, no amount of fan wanking can redeem them.  

Her world-conquering had no apparent motivation. She originally raised an army to claim what she thought was her birthright, then got sidetracked liberating and governing Slaver's Bay. Suddenly she has not just the idea of doing the same thing everywhere, but is very sure and explicit about it. As if the Dothraki and Unsullied would be excited by the prospect. 

As for Jon waiting to kill Dany after fair warning and mobilization...did you see the previous episode? She may have murdered a million people for no reason whatsoever. And Jon is her only potential rival left in Westeros. Jon shouldn't even have to talk to Tyrion. He should have killed her right on the steps of her Nuremberg Rally. 

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24 minutes ago, SeanF said:

 What I had hoped for in the final episode was her providing a reasoned, if cruel, justification for her actions, setting up a real moral dilemma for Jon. eg her saying "I take no pleasure in any of this, but my enemies have to know that when they defy me, they will lose everything.  I hope there will never be any need to do this again."   But, no she's just become a mad Nazi who wants to conquer the world, and it's obvious she just has to be put down. 

Have you ever played Dragon Age: Origins, and especially its expansion, The Awakening? You can indeed take such a ruthless path there, and your secondary antagonist is a national hero who had walked that path too far. In the Awakening, you find yourself in a similar situation, where you can save either a city, or your base of operation. The city is flooded with enemies and infested with some new kind of affliction, but if you choose to burn it, you get to see the innocent survivors that you are killing (plus, potentially, you know that this decision most likely kills your BF's sister). IMHO, the game went a bit soft on the outcome - saving the city should have backfired terribly, leading to the spread of the disease, and burning it should have given you the axe, or at least exile. I had expected to see something like that in the final season, some tough choice along the lines of "some must be sacrificed for everyone to be saved", but nah.

18 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I didn't mind her decision to go on a perpetual war of conquest to 'liberate' everyone, I minded that the idea still was never given enough time to develop.  Jon spends 5 minutes one time to try to convince Dany she's wrong and then kills her.  That's terrible storytelling. 

The last season felt like its own summary - just plot points, hardly anything in between.

13 minutes ago, tallTale said:

I can’t even properly quantify the Jon and Daeny relationship. They were together a short time, but apparently it wasn’t much more than quick bang because he fell out of love as soon as she saved his ass from the zombies.

Yeah, that definitely needed way more time, and way more interaction between the two. Something showing that they actually care for each other outside of bed.

25 minutes ago, iprayiam said:

Well I didn't really mean Alternative media and video games. I really don't think the next star wars trilogy by D&D will have much appeal precisely because it's unrelated to the OS. They're throwing Palpatine into Ep 9 for goodness sake jut to harvest nostalgia.

Ah, sorry, my bad. 

I'm afraid Palpatine and Lando won't be enough. It is probably too much to hope for a repetition of the Solo fiasco, but a girl can dream.

25 minutes ago, iprayiam said:

Again, why Valyria would have been the better choice. A fresh aesthetic template, retaining only Dragons and the Targaryen name.

Valyria would be interesting. There is the Doom with potential FM involvement, dragonlords at each other's throats, blood magic, slavers to be hated, and, above all, dragons. Much better choice.

 

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48 minutes ago, darmody said:

Star Wars has the whole Extended Universe of books, video games, comics. The movies all hew closely to the Skywalker family and Death Stars because they cost a lot of money and studios want to be safe. But they could experiment on a more modest scale if they felt like it. So long as it is a Space Opera with the Force and lightsabers would be advisable. Also humanoid robots.

Dragons, T&A, wolves, and surprising violent deaths are Game of Thrones signatures I guess. 

 

What wolves?  There were wolves?

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I just want to remind anyone here who thinks that Season 8 was simply when D&D 'dropped the ball', that this line exists. And some people unironically liked it on release, too. Those same idiots are the ones D&D have always written for.

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4 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:
 

I just want to remind anyone here who thinks that Season 8 was simply when D&D 'dropped the ball', that this line exists. And some people unironically liked it on release, too. Those same idiots are the ones D&D have always written for.

Oh, most of us ranters have been hating this show for several seasons. Personally, I would say the first four seasons ranged from decent to great. They all had their issues, but season 4 started to suffer some big issues. And then season 5 went off a cliff and continued down towards the abyss that was season 8.

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2 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Oh, most of us ranters have been hating this show for several seasons. Personally, I would say the first four seasons ranged from decent to great. They all had their issues, but season 4 started to suffer some big issues. And then season 5 went off a cliff and continued down towards the abyss that was season 8.

Agreed. Though even the later seasons had occasional highlights, like poisoning the Freys :whip:

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4 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Oh, most of us ranters have been hating this show for several seasons. Personally, I would say the first four seasons ranged from decent to great. They all had their issues, but season 4 started to suffer some big issues. And then season 5 went off a cliff and continued down towards the abyss that was season 8.

I know, but you'd be amazed how r/freefolk are. Some are disenfranchised from Season 8, and my first thoughts are 'did you not watch Seasons 5-7 or something?'

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