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Best and worst TV series finales, and where does GoT rank? *Spoilers*

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14 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

It's up there with Ally McBeal and Grey's Anatomy.

The way to look at this is the Game of Thrones guys found a way to remain good friends of George- - - by finishing the show this way they didn't step on his finale or overshadow it or look competitive with his genius.  The show's end was like an advertisement for reading the real conclusion to get satisfaction , to get the nutrients missing from a TV diet.

I have to say I’m now more excited for the books than I have been in years. I’m very curious as to how George will tell his story. I’d lost interest for a while but the show is like a trailer for for the books in some ways, showing all the best bits but giving you none of the story 

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Blackadder is so far ahead it's not even funny

The shield/six feet under tie for 2nd/3rd. 

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I have to say I’m now more excited for the books than I have been in years. I’m very curious as to how George will tell his story. I’d lost interest for a while but the show is like a trailer for for the books in some ways, showing all the best bits but giving you none of the story 

This is where GoT totally fell down. Just ticking off plot points with little to no effort on the buildup just leads to unearned and nonsensical conclusions. Bran being king made no sense given that the character has been a glorified extra for years. Northern independence made no sense with a Stark as king. The Iron Islands and Dorne not immediately demanding independence as well made no sense. The most populous region of Westeros suddenly being devoid of people made no sense. Davos offering a bunch of eunuchs the opportunity to start their own houses made no sense. An illiterate sellsword being made Lord Paramount and Master of Coin made no sense. Production values that are made a lot easier to accomplish thanks to the biggest budget in television history carry much less weight that writing a coherent story as far as I'm concerned. The writers completely and utterly failed at that.

 

I'm ashamed to say that I can't for the life of me remember the Blackadder finale. Gonna have to do a rewatch. Hopefully the show is available on Netflix. 

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19 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

It's up there with Ally McBeal and Grey's Anatomy.

The way to look at this is the Game of Thrones guys found a way to remain good friends of George- - - by finishing the show this way they didn't step on his finale or overshadow it or look competitive with his genius.  The show's end was like an advertisement for reading the real conclusion to get satisfaction , to get the nutrients missing from a TV diet.

I hope you know that Grey's Anatomy ISN"T FINISHED.

As for the rest... Amen

13 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I, for one, loved the GOT finale and didn’t find it hard to like at all. After The Shield, it’s my second favorite finale.

The Americans had an incredible finale as well, though I had one or two issues with it. I agree the music and acting was outstanding. I’m so glad the writer/writers won an Emmy for it.

We are all different and that is normal. That said, I can't even compare the masterpiece of "The Americans" with the trainwreck that was GoT finale or last season.

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51 minutes ago, Risto said:

We are all different and that is normal. That said, I can't even compare the masterpiece of "The Americans" with the trainwreck that was GoT finale or last season.

I felt more emotions watching Paige get off the train in The Americans than I did seeing my favorite character get killed in GoT. That should tell you everything...

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2 hours ago, Risto said:

We are all different and that is normal. That said, I can't even compare the masterpiece of "The Americans" with the trainwreck that was GoT finale or last season.

To each their own. To me, nothing can compare to the quality of GOT. It’s in a class of its own. My only criticism of the finale was Bronn and his new position as Lord Paramount of the Reach. Everything else was perfect. While The Americans finale was great, I didn’t like how we never saw Henry’s reaction to who his parents really were. And while I really enjoyed Stan’s final confrontation with the Jennings, I felt it could have been better, considering the show’s been building to this moment since episode 1. I didn’t fully buy him letting the Jennings go either. I loved everything else, though.

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1 hour ago, Nictarion said:

I felt more emotions watching Paige get off the train in The Americans than I did seeing my favorite character get killed in GoT. That should tell you everything...

All it takes is the opening notes of With or Without you to get me emotional now. The finale was just excellent and so satisfying

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1 minute ago, Dragon in the North said:

To each their own. To me, nothing can compare to the quality of GOT. It’s in a class of its own. My only criticism of the finale was Bronn and his new position as Lord Paramount of the Reach. Everything else was perfect. While The Americans finale was great, I didn’t like how we never saw Henry’s reaction to who his parents really were. And while I really enjoyed Stan’s final confrontation with the Jennings, I felt it could have been better, considering the show’s been building to this moment since episode 1. I didn’t fully buy him letting the Jennings go either. I loved everything else, though.

But you buy Drogon not killing Jon immediately? Or Grey Worm? Or the Dothraki? Do they seem like the type of people that would be ok with a trial? Especially one judged by Jon’s own family and friends. How about how silly it was that the Iron Islands or Dorne didn’t demand independence after Sansa did? And Bran should be king because he tell the best stories? (Lmao) Idk how anyone could keep a straight face during that scene. The tonal shift from the dramatic first half of the episode to comedy hour was extremely jarring, imo. And the transitions were poorly done. Even my favorite scene of Brienne finishing Jaime’s page in the KG book took me out of the episode when she immediately slams the book shut with wet ink. Just no attention to detail in the writing. Add the water bottles, and the bad cgi when Drogon melted the throne...this show deserved so much better. 

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16 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

But you buy Drogon not killing Jon immediately? Or Grey Worm? Or the Dothraki? Do they seem like the type of people that would be ok with a trial? Especially one judged by Jon’s own family and friends. How about how silly it was that the Iron Islands or Dorne didn’t demand independence after Sansa did? And Bran should be king because he tell the best stories? (Lmao) Idk how anyone could keep a straight face during that scene. The tonal shift from the dramatic first half of the episode to comedy hour was extremely jarring, imo. And the transitions were poorly done. Even my favorite scene of Brienne finishing Jaime’s page in the KG book took me out of the episode when she immediately slams the book shut with wet ink. Just no attention to detail in the writing. Add the water bottles, and the bad cgi when Drogon melted the throne...this show deserved so much better. 

Of course. Dragons are intelligent creatures. Drogon knew that it was Dany’s obsession that really killed her, so he destroyed the symbol of her obsession. Grey Worm is smart as well. He knew many of the high lords would not be ok with Jon’s execution, so he decided to wait to see if they could come up with a fitting punishment. He agreed with exile. The Dothraki follow strength, and strength alone. How many stayed behind and mourned for Khal Drogo or any of the other khals Danerys killed. Dorne has never given any indication that they want independence. Not one. The Iron Islands aren’t sustainable on their own without attacking the mainland for their resources. Yara figured this out, which is why she conquered the Iron Islands in Dany’s name. The reason Bran should be king is because he is the best story. Also, as the 3 Eyed Raven, he is the wisest man alive. As Tywin said, wisdom makes the best king. GOT always managed to balance comedy and drama perfectly, and the finale was no exception. The only comedic scene was the small council. Brienne closing the book is such a small detail. If such a minor thing takes you out of an episode, it’s a wonder you ever turn on your television. The water bottle speaks volumes about the viewers, not the show. The fact that there are people that go over the show with a magnifying glass, looking for mistakes, is clearly pathetic. Can you honestly say with 100% honesty that you noticed the water bottle on your first viewing before seeing it on the internet? No show can hold up under such scrutiny, not even Breaking Bad or The Americans. I rewatched Breaking Bad and was just as critical of it as some people are of GOT, and you’d be surprised how easy it was to tear it apart.

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The problem with that is all of that is something that the show could have explained and set up but it didn't. Most of the problems with the finale are with how rushed it was not with what actually happened (though Burning the Throne will never be not-terrible in my eyes. I've already adopted it as my personal shorthand for the moment you know a series finale is going to be irredeemable).

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Of course. Dragons are intelligent creatures. Drogon knew that it was Dany’s obsession that really killed her, so he destroyed the symbol of her obsession. Grey Worm is smart as well. He knew many of the high lords would not be ok with Jon’s execution, so he decided to wait to see if they could come up with a fitting punishment. 1. He agreed with exile. The Dothraki follow strength, and strength alone. How many stayed behind and mourned for Khal Drogo or any of the other khals Danerys killed. 2. Dorne has never given any indication that they want independence. Not one. The Iron Islands aren’t sustainable on their own without attacking the mainland for their resources. Yara figured this out, which is why she conquered the Iron Islands in Dany’s name. The reason Bran should be king is because he is the best story. Also, as the 3 Eyed Raven, he is the wisest man alive. As Tywin said, wisdom makes the best king. GOT always managed to balance comedy and drama perfectly, and the finale was no exception. 3. The only comedic scene was the small council. Brienne closing the book is such a small detail. If such a minor thing takes you out of an episode, it’s a wonder you ever turn on your television. The water bottle speaks volumes about the viewers, not the show. The fact that there are people that go over the show with a magnifying glass, looking for mistakes, is clearly pathetic. Can you honestly say with 100% honesty that you noticed the water bottle on your first viewing before seeing it on the internet? No show can hold up under such scrutiny, not even Breaking Bad or The Americans. I rewatched Breaking Bad and was just as critical of it as some people are of GOT, and you’d be surprised how easy it was to tear it apart.

1. Which was totally unbelievable. Like I said, Jon’s friends and family were the judges. And it wasn’t exile. He was supposed to re-join the NW. Instead he took off with the Wildlings first chance he got. And with Grey Worm just fucking off to Naath there would be nothing stopping Jon from returning to WF or anywhere else he wanted. The entire thing was a joke. Would have worked better if Jon had self imposed his own punishment. Not to mention Tyrion got off absolutely scott-free. Another thing Grey Worm just happened to be alright with for reasons. 

2. Except for you know...being independent for their entire existence even after Aegon conquering the rest of the kingdoms. They finally only joined the realm through marriage. If anyone deserves their independence it’s them. Why the hell should they be ruled by some kid from the North? Dumb. 

3. No. They tried to make the great council vote funny with cringy shit like Sansa rudely telling Edmure to sit down (which was ridiculous he would make more sense as king than Bran), and everyone laughing at Sam when he suggested letting the people decide (guess Yara forgot about Kingsmoots). 

Edited by Nictarion

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It'a funny how one makes arguments about a story not being clear enough or too rushed, but has no problem when this happens in another story. Blind spots.

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4 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

It'a funny how one makes arguments about a story not being clear enough or too rushed, but has no problem when this happens in another story. Blind spots.

Care to elaborate. 

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9 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

1. Which was totally unbelievable. Like I said, Jon’s friends and family were the judges. And it wasn’t exile. He was supposed to re-join the NW. Instead he took off with the Wildlings first chance he got. And with Grey Worm just fucking off to Naath there would nothing stopping Jon from returning to WF or anywhere else he wanted. The entire thing was a joke. Would have worked better if Jon had self imposed his own punishment. Not to mention Tyrion got off absolutely scott-free. Another thing Grey Worm just happened to be alright with for reasons. 

2. Except for you know...being independent for their entire existence even after Aegon conquering the rest of the kingdoms. They finally only joined the realm through marriage. If anyone deserves their independence it’s them. Why the hell should they be ruled by some kid from the North? Dumb. 

3. No. They tried to make the great council vote funny with cringy shit like Sansa rudely telling Edmure to sit down (which was ridiculous he would make more sense as kind than Bran), and everyone laughing at Sam when he suggested letting the people decide (guess Yara forgot about Kingsmoots). 

1. The only other option was war, which would have been another massacre, since the Unsullied lost Drogon. It doesn’t matter whether the Jon stays in Castle Black or goes Beyond the Wall. The point is he isn’t allowed to enter the kingdoms again. Jon is honorable. He will honor the terms of his punishment. Tyrion set his brother free in an attempt to get Cersei to surrender peacefully. Jon killed the queen. Greyworm was more concerned with Jon’s punishment than Tyrion’s.

2. Yes, they were independent until the Targ marriage, and then became a part of the 7 Kingdoms and have been ever since.  They never once in the entire course of the series ever expressed their desire for independence.

3. There were two funny moments in quite a long scene. The drama overshadowed the comedy.

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13 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Care to elaborate. 

Dragon in the North is complaining about this and that on The Americans (mind you I haven't watched it), but has no problems with how rushed GoT was this season, and really in other seasons, too, everything being absolutely perfect to him/her. Like I said, blind spots. We all have them.

I've ranted and raved about GoT, because I have higher expectations for it. I can do the same for a number of other shows I watch, but I don't care to since I don't hold them to the same standards.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Dragon in the North is complaining about this and that on The Americans (mind you I haven't watched it), but has no problems with how rushed GoT was this season, and really in other seasons, too, everything being absolutely perfect to him/her. Like I said, blind spots. We all have them.

I've ranted and raved about GoT, because I have higher expectations for it. I can do the same for a number of other shows I watch, but I don't care to since I don't hold them to the same standards.

I wasn’t complaining. I was listing my criticisms. I’ve stated my reasoning as to what worked and what didn’t in both finales.

I hold GOT to the same standard as every other show that I watch. That is why it beats out all of them.

But you’re right, in a way. I’m perfectly aware GOT has flaws in all its seasons, as does every show. However, the positives completely overshadow the negatives.

Edited by Dragon in the North

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1 minute ago, Dragon in the North said:

I wasn’t complaining. I was listing my criticisms. I’ve stated my reasoning as to what worked and what didn’t in both finales.

I hold GOT to the same standard as every other show that I watch. That is why it beats out all of them.

This is why what you say makes no sense.

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2 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I felt more emotions watching Paige get off the train in The Americans than I did seeing my favorite character get killed in GoT. That should tell you everything...

I had seen my favorite being named a Queen and I feel the same. That entire "With or Without you" sequence was brilliant.

 

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

All it takes is the opening notes of With or Without you to get me emotional now. The finale was just excellent and so satisfying

Exactly. For so many, it will always be Rachel and Ross's song. For me, it is about those two hands on the window.

7 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

I hold GOT to the same standard as every other show that I watch. That is why it beats out all of them.

I know people will hide behind the usual "taste" argument, but at some point a line has to be drawn. It is not "taste" to say that GoT finale was better than "The Americans" finale. It is plain nonsense. 

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BTW, no one mentioned "The Good Wife" finale...

That slap was EPIC!

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