US Politics: 40 Acres and Barack Obama

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

g very excited about abandoning if the champions of 'freedom' don't meet your ideological purity. 

And that's a fair position to take. I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for demanding virtuous and steadfast leaders in your political party. But I will tell you that when faced with a binary choice, picking the lesser of the evils is the correct decision. Because life doesn't care if you refuse to play, it's not taking your opinions into consideration unless you force it to. And that's what voting is. When you vote you're imposing political assertions on others. That is how democracy works. Where we diverge from Mr. Ratjack's world view is in believing that the act of imposition itself does not justify said imposition.  We have a (allegedly) democratic system, where political authority is derived from the individual in collective.

I want to be very, very, clear with the following statement. I don't get to tell you what you believe or value. However, if you value things like democracy, laws, and representative government then I will state that you have a moral imperative to drown more slowly so that survival is still at least on the table. Waiting until you hit the sea floor to start kicking is how people wake up in a one party system.  

You are seeing at our current situation through cloudy, rose colored quartz.

First bolded: sure. but for so many the less worse of evils is way too late for them anyway, and has been all their history -- and often helped them not at all, see: Jim Crow.  It didn't matter that one politician or one party was in favor of better wages for factory workers when as a black person you weren't allowed off the cotton field and on to the factory floor, and were still getting hung from the nearest convenient tree when assholes felt like having some fun.

Second bolded: that's irrelevant when you are 1) not allowed to vote -- women through at least half the country's history; also, see Jim Crow, the time before the Voting Rights Act; 2) erased from the voting rolls, arrested when trying to vote, see: women, African Americans and our history of voting.

Third bolded: that's where so many already are; on the sea floor. The number of people in the US alone -- we can't even begin to count this on the global scale -- without housing and food, and in many, many places, even water to drink, is staggering.  Also you do not address the facts that this has all been accomplished in order that a few corporations own everything, which is no exaggeration.  This is why there is no affordable housing for people who even make decent salaries, the water and food supply continually more poisoned, and all the rest of it.

Anyway, since it's pretty well established that I live in a place where I can vote, and I do vote, and I am politically active -- please don't take this the wrong way, for I also like you -- but you are lecturing to somebody who  does know what is going on and still flails, knowing we are in end times, uselessly.   

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Agreed, 100%. That's why I'm excited to see if there's a big ass viewer count,

So you want Democrats to target the Kardashian demographic? 

 

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, Zorral said:

You are seeing at our current situation through cloudy, rose colored quartz.

First bolded: sure. but for so many the less worse of evils is way too late for them anyway, and has been all their history -- and often helped them not at all, see: Jim Crow.  It didn't matter that one politician or one party was in favor of better wages for factory workers when as a black person you weren't allowed off the cotton field and on to the factory floor, and were still getting hung from the nearest convenient tree when assholes felt like having some fun.

Second bolded: that's irrelevant when you are 1) not allowed to vote -- women through at least half the country's history; also, see Jim Crow, the time before the Voting Rights Act; 2) erased from the voting rolls, arrested when trying to vote, see: women, African Americans and our history of voting.

Third bolded: that's where so many already are; on the sea floor. The number of people in the US alone -- we can't even begin to count this on the global scale -- without housing and food, and in many, many places, even water to drink, is staggering.  Also you do not address the facts that this has all been accomplished in order that a few corporations own everything, which is no exaggeration.  This is why there is no affordable housing for people who even make decent salaries, the water and food supply continually more poisoned, and all the rest of it.

Anyway, since it's pretty well established that I live in a place where I can vote, and I do vote, and I am politically active -- please don't take this the wrong way, for I also like you -- but you are lecturing to somebody who  does know what is going on and still flails, knowing we are in end times, uselessly.   

 

 

I think the two of us have always been on a similar page, but while I like to point out the futility and disaster of this myself it is often best to let people cling to their hope. It keeps them pleasant. Attacks against established liberal beliefs/actors should be conducted in a manner which drives the intended audience deeper into their position, not to weaken their resolve. And, there is a certain amount of moral satisfaction to me in knowing you tried as best as was possible even if you knew it wasn't going to matter. That's why I'll donate to campaigns next year. Not because I believe Dems are gonna win (50/50) or because I believe they can or want to fix this shattered nation, but because when I slip into that endless void I'll get to know that I did make an effort on behalf of my fellow citizens. Just because they're too stupid and lazy to do the same does not absolve me of responsibility when it comes to the well being of my country.

So I am forced to point out false equivalencies on behalf of maligned Democratic candidates, particularly front runners. You're right that Biden is a disaster from a liberal viewpoint, but I will defend him against what I perceive to be over the top criticism because Trumpists are an existential threat. And I want people to be able to fall in line when he locks up the nomination. Because a shitty Democrat is a helluva lot better than pure evil and naked self-enrichment.

[Jace, Extat]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

So you want Democrats to target the Kardashian demographic? 

 

No, that series maxed out at 4.7 million viewers (in the correct demographics though). I want the NFL Draft demographic. Which is literally ten times as much.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Jace wants to find out if I can start piecing together a theory that large amounts of candidates could be a good thing.

I think you have a very long way to go to demonstrate any correlation between ratings for primary debates - or number of primary candidates - to vote share in the general elections.  It don't matter.

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, DMC said:

I think you have a very long way to go to demonstrate any correlation between ratings for primary debates - or number of primary candidates - to vote share in the general elections.  It don't matter.

I know. Just to be clear, this is just a fun idea to me. I'm not trying to put my (blemish free) reputation on the line here. If I was one of those youtubers who keep appearing in my feed I could probably get a shitload of clicks though!

By the by, is anyone else getting these things in their YouTube feed where a dude like breaks down a news story piece by piece? It's like the same thing videogame 'journalists' do on the platform, but... grosser. I don't care for it myself but the videos just keep showing up. I feel like every time I :Not Interested: one of them two more appear.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

No, that series maxed out at 4.7 million viewers (in the correct demographics though). I want the NFL Draft demographic. Which is literally ten times as much.

Okay, we need to workshop this then. Do we want the Democrats to kneel or not kneel?* Will it hurt our ratings if we get a leaked video of Beto punching out his wife? Or what about Harris knock out her husband? Should we make the military pay them so they have the rights to run ads and do a pre-debate fly over? There are so many questions to ask, but at the very least we can all agree that Brady's doctor, who isn't actually a doctor, needs to throw Sanders and Biden a freaking bone here.

Also, why do you know their ratings? Were you a closet fan? I've never watched it intentionally, but I always seem to get stuck with the elliptical that's either directly pointing at that trash or Fox. Why are the CNN ones never open........

 

*Speaking of kneeling, Trump's sure having a go at Rapinoe today, but Krieger really did jump from the top rope to have her back.

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Okay, we need to workshop this then. Do we want the Democrats to kneel or not kneel?* Will it hurt our ratings if we get a leaked video of Beto punching out his wife? Or what about Harris knock out her husband? Should we make the military pay them so they have the rights to run ads and do a pre-debate fly over? There are so many questions to ask, but at the very least we can all agree that Brady's doctor, who isn't actually a doctor, needs to throw Sanders and Biden a freaking bone here.

Also, why do you know their ratings? Were you a closet fan? I've never watched it intentionally, but I always seem to get stuck with the elliptical that's either directly pointing at that trash or Fox. Why are the CNN ones never open........

 

All of that. Yes, please! And more! The bigger the circus the greater the emotional investment. I don't give a fuck if you loathe the eventual nominee who is a puppy killing rapist as long as I can make you loathe the Republicans more. The theme of every DNC event should be attacking Republicans. And if a Dem candidate wants to play nice, all the others should gang up on them.

I've never seen the Kardashian program and I never will. I know their ratings because I know everything. Including what you did last night. And Tywin, you should be ashamed. Very. Ashamed.

[HexMachina]

4 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I wouldnt support eliminating student debt carte blanche. For me to support that it would have to be means tested. I like idea of deferments for people unemployed and limits on the interest rate that can be charged, but wholesale debt forgiveness isnt something I agree with. I payed my student debt and feel people should pay theirs as well. I did benefit from low interest rates and a deferment though, so I support those tools being available to all student borrowers if thats not the practice anymore?

This is terrible reasoning. Because you were the victim of an unfairness or injustice, others should be too? That is essentially what you are saying

[DMC]

24 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I'm not trying to put my (blemish free) reputation on the line here.

Your reputation is that of a goddess.

[Martell Spy]

28 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

This is terrible reasoning. Because you were the victim of an unfairness or injustice, others should be too? That is essentially what you are saying

Well, assuming the debt is something large, it takes a certain amount of fortune to have paid off your debt at all. Some people will never pay off the debt and might even have their Social Security garnished. It gets lost because some student debtors are wealthy doctors and stuff, but what we have done is create a new caste of people. A group of people permanently disfavored by the government, similar to those who refuse to pay child support and undocumented immigrants, who have been stripped of the legal right of bankruptcy for their debt. In fact, the legal effects of going into default on student loans is almost exactly the way those who don't pay child support are treated. 

Maybe we should just require student debtors that want to wipe their debt out get a huge beating from those who feel they are getting off too easy. I'm sure many debtors would take up this offer.

The Wayfair Walkout Is a Different Kind of Tech Worker Protest
Employees are finding new ways to insist their companies oppose the Trump administration’s most appalling policies.

https://slate.com/technology/2019/06/wayfair-walkout-trump-protest-border-detention-beds.html

Quote

 

This isn’t a typical use of organized labor, but it’s of a piece with the methods used by white-collar workers in the technology industry over the past two years. So far, the movement to force companies to oppose various activities of the Trump administration has had mixed success. Wayfair’s case suggests it will now grow beyond the very largest tech companies—and that employees are realizing signing a petition isn’t their only move.

The Wayfair protesters aren’t fighting to improve their own working conditions: They’re organizing to change their employer’s business practices.

 

 

[Gertrude]

So I haven't actually heard Beto speak before. and based on his first debate answer I am supremely unimpressed.

[Jace, Extat]

8 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

So I haven't actually heard Beto speak before. and based on his first debate answer I am supremely unimpressed.

Jace and bestie made politics bingo cards, I'm getting trounced because I wasn't vague enough.

[Zorral]

De Blasio -- true to form: interrupted; Cory got off a good line about the 'medical' industry, profiteers of pain.

The two that are coming out at the bottom of my so-called liking with their approach and personality, are Ryan and My Mayor (my mayor is Lurch and lazy and does nothing -- and fairly corrupt).

Every one of these people have thought a billion times more deeply and carefully and intelligently about every issue than el romper has -- EVER, including as so-called president.  Even Ryan, though he's an idiot.

Oops, de Blasio got off a good 'un.  Well, there ya go.  These people, as individuals, and in aggregate, are intelligent (except maybe Ryan?).

Gosh, these are people who are rational, not insane!  How weird to hear them talking instead of that insane oxygen sucker that media slavishly puts into our head space 24/7.

 

 

 

 

[Martell Spy]

Not surprising, Warren looks strong. Also it looked like Castro wanted to assassinate Beto there.

[Jace, Extat]

I think Castro overextended himself attacking Beto there. He was doing great before he got a bit too involved. Buuuuut I can see people liking his passion. I know I do.

[Fragile Bird]

Please do share the highlights. I’ve had a long day and can’t be bothered to watch.

[SpaceChampion]

Are you all saying Beto wasn't born for this?

[Martell Spy]

6 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Please do share the highlights. I’ve had a long day and can’t be bothered to watch.

Well, the main thing I think is that Warren is dominating the debate. And that is kind of expected. I came in 20 minutes late due to app errors, and I was impressed with what I saw of Warren. Also, I spoke with a friend by email who had seen the first 20 minutes and described Warren as strong. I like Warren, but I also worried about her abilities over her fracas with Trump. I was just surprised by her presence when she was speaking. I didn't know she was capable of that. 

I thought Booker was doing an OK job, too, better than I expected considering his polling.

Also, there was a contest on who could speak more Spanish. I didn't see if Warren took part in that.

[Gertrude]

Castro was a bit aggressive, but Beto didn't respond well IMO. Castro looked more in control and Beto kind looked like he was floundering, even if he did have a response ready. The optics were in Castro's favor I think, and stupidly that matters.