US Politics: 40 Acres and Barack Obama

[The Anti-Targ]

10 hours ago, DMC said:

If he just refused to apologize, then emphasized that his main point was about civility and was just inartfully articulated, then maybe you'd have an argument.  But no, saying Booker should apologize, and obfuscating to imply Booker called him a racist, then using the "I don't have a racist bone in my body" trope?  That's what the GOP does.  It's definitely not going to endear oneself to anybody in the Democratic primary electorate.  

To be clear, however, I doubt this single instance will matter too much in isolation.  But it's representative, and another one of those "death by a thousand cuts" things that I suspect will be the end of Biden.

I think, if people knowingly associate with racists in a cordial manner, then they are mainstreaming racist attitudes. People who say they have no racist bone in their body need to give nothing to racsim by saying you have no seat at the table on any issue while you promote racist ideals.

[Zorral]

Putin does not want another shooting war in the Middle East, and he calls the rapist-in-chief's shots.  BTW, the NY Times rather cleverly placed the latest revelation of *rum*'s assaulting a woman in their book section, since E. jean Carroll revealed the assault upon her in her memoir, just published --

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/books/e-jean-carroll-trump.html

Also it is the cover story on NY Magazine, so it will be out front there all month.  No wonder yesterday all we could hear on the media was *rum* blathering about his great humanity in choosing at the last moment not to commit a 'disproportionate' aggression upon the Iranian people.  As if *rum* had ever heard the word, much less used it, much less considered it in connection with any act of his own, every in his life.

Biden was rude to Cory Booker because Booker didn't agree with him, and refused to apologize to Booker -- then lied and called Booker a racist.  Biden thinks it is admirable to agree with, apologize to, and get along with racists, but believes sneering at people of color to be good moves. Evidently he believes lying like *rum* is also a suave move.

Plus Buttigieg has revealed he is not yet prepared for prime time, blowing it badly, telling a very upset black woman in the city of which he's mayor, where the cops had just killed an unarmed black man, that he isn't asking for her vote:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/buttigieg-south-bend-shooting.html?

Quote

 

Once he arrived at the protest on a charter flight, around 6:30 p.m., healing was far from the minds of most in the crowd, a mix of bereaved relatives of the dead man, Eric Logan, family members of others injured or killed in police encounters and masked protesters in black waving signs reading, “Who do you call when police murder?”

“You’re running for president and you want black people to vote for you? That’s not going to happen,” a woman shouted.

“Ma’am, I’m not asking for your vote,” Mr. Buttigieg said.

 

 

 

[Fragile Bird]

I actually think Buttigieg gave the right answer to the woman. He wasn't there to get a vote, he was there because he’s the mayor and there was a police shooting and a black man died, and as mayor he showed up to face and talk to the protestors. It’s not like he showed up at the site of a police shooting in a different city or a different state.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

I actually think Buttigieg gave the right answer to the woman. He wasn't there to get a vote, he was there because he’s the mayor and there was a police shooting and a black man died, and as mayor he showed up to face and talk to the protestors. It’s not like he showed up at the site of a police shooting in a different city or a different state.

Entirely disagree.  First of all, they had to have voted for him to be mayor, and also to remain mayor.  He's been asking for their votes for a while now.

He's got problems with these voters in his city, and not for the first time, as I've mentioned here before.

[ThinkerX]

Then again, the much hyped ICE raids were never more than a negotiating tactic.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-announces-delay-of-mass-immigration-raids-that-were-to-start-sunday/ar-AADgWx1?ocid=ob-fb-enus-580&fbclid=IwAR1ncwa7qpSTlCaN6XxMoEewHrNU4rm-4eiTS9YBupznYA6TPytHhmNAFz8

 

President Donald Trump announced Saturday that he would delay the White House's plans to begin mass raids Sunday against undocumented families.

Sharing the news on Twitter, the president said that "at the request of Democrats" the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) would delay its plans to seek out people with deportation orders.

Trump said he had approved the delay so that Democrats and Republicans in Congress could work out a new immigration compromise — a deal that has so far long eluded the president and his allies. Trump said the deal would have to solve “the Asylum and Loophole problems at the Southern Border.”

He noted that if Congress was unable to strike a deal, “Deportations start!”

 

 

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

2 hours ago, Triskele said:

I saw that Mayor Pete clip and am not sure that it was explained well on the segment and not sure that I quite follow the whole issue.  Was it mainly that there was a police killing in South Bend that he wasn't denouncing strongly?

 

On the Biden thing this has got me a bit worried right now because what I am really fearful of is anything that divides or causes a riff in the fight to take Trump down, and this really feels ripe for that.  It feels like Biden is going for the votes that Hillary was going for against Obama in 2008 and maybe he's about to hire Mark Penn back from the Republicans.  

It's primary season and there has to be a fight for the nomination, so I think it's the best way to come up with the strongest challenger. I am super unmotivated to go out and vote for Biden. I hope he gets taken down, the sooner the better imo. Joe would make a fine cabinet member but we need someone at the top of the ticket that people will be excited to vote for, Biden doesn't tick that box. If the election is no more than vote for me because Trump is so bad, then we could fail, that's what I fear.

[Larry of the Lawn]

What pisses me off most with Biden is everyone saying 'well he's the front runner and the best chance to beat Trump'.  Yeah right fucking now he might be polling well.  Clinton was polling well, and in 2016 we had three (liberal math) candidates with Clinton, Sanders, and O'Malley.  Get Biden the fuck out of there.  The whole shit that went down in 2016 with the Bernie Bros and HRC not generating turnout among the base was that people felt like there was no choice, that the candidate was selected for them.  There are a dozen better candidates than Biden and he can kibdly go fuck off into retirement.  His time is over, he's not going to magically save the country after 60 whatever years of being a mediocre loser politician that people like because he's fucking folksy.  That's not who we need right now.  If he gets the nomination the Dems deserve to lose - they are so fucking tone deaf.

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, Zorral said:

Entirely disagree.  First of all, they had to have voted for him to be mayor, and also to remain mayor.  He's been asking for their votes for a while now.

He's got problems with these voters in his city, and not for the first time, as I've mentioned here before.

A message of “I’m only here out of cold political calculus to help garner more political power for myself” doesn’t really sound that great.

 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, larrytheimp said:

What pisses me off most with Biden is everyone saying 'well he's the front runner and the best chance to beat Trump'. 

I think what frustrates me the most is in all those 60 (lol) years of political experience, there is basically no evidence he can be a capable politician on the national stage.  In fact there's plenty of counter-evidence - he's had two cracks at it.  In 1988 he was the fundraising leader early, but had to pull out after a plagiarism scandal.  (To be fair, the "scandal" would be completely shrugged off in this day and age, but his campaign was lagging beforehand anyway.)  In 2008 literally his only substantive contribution to the campaign was saying this about Obama:  "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man."

1 hour ago, ThinkerX said:

Then again, the much hyped ICE raids were never more than a negotiating tactic.

I guess if you're really an optimist, at least the one good thing lately is Trump seems to be pulling out a lot more.  /tasteless joke

[Zorral]

It's th

10 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

I guess if you're really an optimist, at least the one good thing lately is Trump seems to be pulling out a lot more.  /tasteless joke

It's his version of playing video - computer games; he's discovered a new entertainment.  Done it twice in two days now.  As he tweeted, he loves the feeling he gets by saying do something and then saying don't do it, and whichever he says is done.

 

 

[DMC]

17 minutes ago, Triskele said:

The Dem majority is trying to vote on a cap-and-trade bill and the GOP reps are fleeing the state to avoid the vote while right wing militias (are there any other kind?) are threatening the Capitol building.

The threats to the Capitol are definitely concerning, but walking out so as to prevent a quorum is a very well-worn parliamentary tactic.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Triskele said:

It's a little more than just a walk out though.  

I understand the rhetoric even from the state senators is ridiculous and, well, Trumpian, like this (from your link):

Quote

While leaving the statehouse before the walkout, Republican Sen. Brian Boquist implied that police officers who pursued them should be ready to die. “Send bachelors and come heavily armed,” Boquist warned police in a televised interview shortly before his walkout. “I’m not going to be a political prisoner in the state of Oregon. It’s just that simple.”

My point is it's a common tactic, and has been used by both parties many many times, and often they have to "flee" the state.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

It's his version of playing video - computer games; he's discovered a new entertainment.  Done it twice in two days now.  As he tweeted, he loves the feeling he gets by saying do something and then saying don't do it, and whichever he says is done.

 

 

I don't think it's new. It's how he's operated for decades. Probably learned it from his dad or Roy Cohn. Make wild threats and walk them back when you get concessions. It's how he ran his business. How he stiffed contractors. Fuck, it probably accounts for a large percentage of his sex life.

[Varysblackfyre321]

14 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And the most stringent “big government bad types” eagerly want to protect state senators who’d openly mush over killing cops(to which they say they Uber-respect) if they you know come to try to get them to do their job. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/armed-militias-pledge-to-fight-for-fugitive-oregon-gop-lawmakers-at-any-cost?ref=scroll

I mean I brought up this story literally on the previous page. Hell I even  cited an article from the Daily Beast on the topic. 

52 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Is everyone hearing about what's happening in Oregon?  The Dem majority is trying to vote on a cap-and-trade bill and the GOP reps are fleeing the state to avoid the vote while right wing militias (are there any other kind?) are threatening the Capitol building.

Seems like more evidence of the anti-democratic impulses of the right where if they don't win elections they will increasingly not accept the results.  

 

36 minutes ago, DMC said:

The threats to the Capitol are definitely concerning, but walking out so as to prevent a quorum is a very well-worn parliamentary tactic.

Still, if the senators side with militias for protection from the law, it could set a really bad precedent. It grants these militias legitimacy in using threats of murder, to get government elected officials to reverse their positions to one said militias would want. For now it appears they’ve refused to actually say the senators accepted these militias support-hopefully that’s indication they’re not really interested in getting into an armed-standoff.

[DMC]

BTW, the Oregon thing reminded me of an old example, and thought I'd share.  Jesse Helms once basically threatened President Clinton's life if he visited North Carolina:

Quote

In an interview published Tuesday morning in the Raleigh (N.C.) News & Observer, the 73-year-old conservative asserted that Clinton is extremely unpopular among armed forces personnel stationed at the six military bases in his home state.

"Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here," the newspaper quoted Helms as saying. "He'd better have a bodyguard."

The President, asked about Helms' remarks during a White House news conference, called them "unwise and inappropriate."

It's the circle-jerk bravado messaging.

3 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Still, if the senators side with militias for protection from the law, it could set a really bad precedent. It grants these militias legitimacy in using threats of murder, to get government elected officials to reverse their positions to one said militias would want. For now it appears they’ve refused to actually say the senators accepted these militias support-hopefully that’s indication they’re not really interested in getting into an armed-standoff.

See above.  Hopefully it's just rhetoric and a way for unemployed young white males to blow off some steam.  I do agree the rhetoric is incredibly irresponsible and raises the possibility of violence, of course.

[Varysblackfyre321]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

BTW, the Oregon thing reminded me of an old example, and thought I'd share.  Jesse Helms once basically threatened President Clinton's life if he visited North Carolina:

It's the circle-jerk bravado messaging.

See above.  Hopefully it's just rhetoric and a way for unemployed young white males to blow off some steam.  I do agree the rhetoric is incredibly irresponsible and raises the possibility of violence, of course.

Meh you’re probably right.

I mean upon further research, the republicans senators have explicitly said that they won’t accept help from these militias-even Boquist who threatened to kill cops who’d  come and get him hasn’t broken rank and said he’s grateful for /supports the militias.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2019/06/21/oregon-senate-republicans-reject-offer-of-protection-from-right-wing-militias-theyre-not-interested/

 

[Zorral]

This isn't just posturing -- the posturing has gotten constantly more violent, the laws more blatantly and consistently broke, and rump is putting up video / tweets about him president FOREVER.

Should have shot those assholes grazing their private cattle on public lands and refusing to pay all to shyte.

So -- am I posturing? 

Some say the state senator who says come after me, be a bachelor for you must be prepared to die because I am not going to be a political prisoner in my own country?  But I'll never bet against several at least members here clutching their pearls after reading what I say and cry, tone it down, don't offend them, be civil, get real, etc.

 

[DanteGabriel]

27 minutes ago, Zorral said:

This isn't just posturing -- the posturing has gotten constantly more violent, the laws more blatantly and consistently broke, and rump is putting up video / tweets about him president FOREVER.

Should have shot those assholes grazing their private cattle on public lands and refusing to pay all to shyte.

So -- am I posturing? 

Some say the state senator who says come after me, be a bachelor for you must be prepared to die because I am not going to be a political prisoner in my own country?  But I'll never bet against several at least members here clutching their pearls after reading what I say and cry, tone it down, don't offend them, be civil, get real, etc.

 

You can bet if a Nation of Islam member talked like that, they'd have been nuked from orbit by now. 

[Martell Spy]

Quote

 

Nearly four decades ago, Anne Gorsuch Burford resigned as the head of the Environmental Protection Agency. Though at the helm for less than two years, she left behind a notorious anti-environment legacy, slashing the agency’s budget by 22 percent and claiming to have cut the length of clean water regulations by more than 90 percent.

Burford died in 2004, but her approach to the planet lives on in her offspring: Neil Gorsuch, Trump’s first appointment to the Supreme Court. And on Thursday, Gorsuch proved that he truly is his mother’s son, handing down an opinion in which he threatens to give Republicans on the Supreme Court veto power over countless federal regulations—and potentially render the EPA an impotent husk.

 

The Supreme Court’s Covert Plan to Gut the EPA’s Powers
The conservative justices signaled they want to limit agencies' ability to regulate. That could have disastrous consequences for the planet.

https://newrepublic.com/article/154266/supreme-courts-covert-plan-gut-epas-powers

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

The Supreme Court’s Covert Plan to Gut the EPA’s Powers
The conservative justices signaled they want to limit agencies' ability to regulate. That could have disastrous consequences for the planet.

https://newrepublic.com/article/154266/supreme-courts-covert-plan-gut-epas-powers

I know we're really not supposed to think things like this, but ffs, this is the shit that gets me looking up guillotine blueprints.