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divica

GOT LEGACY

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So after all this time and several reactions what do you guys think is GOT's legacy? 

What do people think of GOT now? How will it be remembered? Is the franchise dead for TV? How does GOT affect grrm? 

For me GOT was destroyed. I dislike everything related to it and the potential for it to have a following like LOTR was destroyed.

HOWEVER, I Don t think the franchise os dead... They just need to move beyond stories related to GOT like the first long night, Stark stuff or most targ stuff... They could make a show about andal invasion, valyria, dance with dragons or after the death of aegon the conqueror and I would see it...

After all the publicity about this being grrm's ending I also have mixed feelings about him being involved... I Don t feel like he doesn t have blame that the ending sucked or that asoiaf ending might also suck... 

I have no idea where grrm's belief that he can do the TV series ending better in the books ends and his refusal to admit that it sucked and 90% of the fans hated it starts. I think this is very weird and that GOT will hurt how most fans feel about asoiaf... 

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Posted (edited)

For the lovers of the book material like us it is probably kind of hated. I personaly dislike it since season 5 and hated it the last 2 seasons. I have no hype for the prequel as well because I feel that they chose the worst potential story. For the casual lovers of the series it's just another good series that degraded through the final seasons. 

Edited by Dreadscythe95

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Posted (edited)

I don't really care for GOT now. The NK was the point where I completely disbelieved D&D telling.

GOT didn't end very far from where I was expecting. But everything was wrong. The LN reduced to nothing. King Bran coming from nowhere. The villains died. But it felt empty. Like Cersei, just waiting the end at her window. No reason why the Good vanquish against the Evil.
I believe the book Others will be the gods' punishment for the evils of men. I believe GRRM's end will not be void of meaning.

I was and remain a fan of the books. The series, I just forget now.

Quote

"Oh, my sweet summer child," Old Nan said quietly, "what do you know of fear? Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods."
"You mean the Others," Bran said querulously.
"The Others," Old Nan agreed. "Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels. Women smothered their children rather than see them starve, and cried, and felt their tears freeze on their cheeks."

 

Edited by BalerionTheCat

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I'm guessing that eventually the outrage and over the top hate will subside. It's probably never going to be regarded as a masterpiece of an ending or a show, overall; it's not going to be on the list of greatest TV series (and it never deserved to be). But people will recognize that Game of Thrones season 8 wasn't terrible; that there was a lot of good in it; and that there are many much worse contenders for "bad TV writing." At the very least I hope the insane amount of anger directed at D&D will subside, and that people will remember that even if they were disappointed by the last season or two, these two people also delivered a lot of material that they loved and were filming the most ambitious series and seasons in TV history, in terms of production, and finishing off somebody else's story.

Its legacy will also be determined by whether or not George RR Martin ever finishes the series.  If, miraculously, GRRM releases book 6 in four months and books 7/8/however many more he needs come out soon after, and, if even more miraculously, everyone agrees that these books are as high quality as the first three books in the series, than I'm sure the reputation of the TV series will suffer. If, as is more likely, the series is never finished, or finished by another author, or the ending is rushed, or the books not of high quality, then I imagine the backlash will shift against him. Fans in this modern age are fickle and angry.

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As much as we can scorn D&D's writing skills and despise what they have done with Martin's work, we should admit that we are in a frank minority here: Game of Thrones has just received a record number of nominations for the emmys. Excluding documentaries and miniseries, it's the second best rated show in IMDB with a 9.4/10. It has broken the records for cable viewership, digital downloads, box set sales, and piracy.

It will be remembered as a great show, even if we know that it wasn't (or at least, that it could have been much greater in some capable hands)

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11 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

As much as we can scorn D&D's writing skills and despise what they have done with Martin's work, we should admit that we are in a frank minority here: Game of Thrones has just received a record number of nominations for the emmys. Excluding documentaries and miniseries, it's the second best rated show in IMDB with a 9.4/10. It has broken the records for cable viewership, digital downloads, box set sales, and piracy.

It will be remembered as a great show, even if we know that it wasn't (or at least, that it could have been much greater in some capable hands)

The problem is that I think nowadays people have acepted we had 3 phases of GOT. S1-4 that were great, S5/6/7 that strugled and had huge problems but were overall well acepted and S8 that is universally hated. I think there are several series that had great beguinings and as they got worse over time their status reflected that. Look at dexter for example… I dont think that people will simply Forget the last years of GOT...

38 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I'm guessing that eventually the outrage and over the top hate will subside. It's probably never going to be regarded as a masterpiece of an ending or a show, overall; it's not going to be on the list of greatest TV series (and it never deserved to be). But people will recognize that Game of Thrones season 8 wasn't terrible; that there was a lot of good in it; and that there are many much worse contenders for "bad TV writing." At the very least I hope the insane amount of anger directed at D&D will subside, and that people will remember that even if they were disappointed by the last season or two, these two people also delivered a lot of material that they loved and were filming the most ambitious series and seasons in TV history, in terms of production, and finishing off somebody else's story.

Its legacy will also be determined by whether or not George RR Martin ever finishes the series.  If, miraculously, GRRM releases book 6 in four months and books 7/8/however many more he needs come out soon after, and, if even more miraculously, everyone agrees that these books are as high quality as the first three books in the series, than I'm sure the reputation of the TV series will suffer. If, as is more likely, the series is never finished, or finished by another author, or the ending is rushed, or the books not of high quality, then I imagine the backlash will shift against him. Fans in this modern age are fickle and angry.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I dont think the hate against D&D will ever disapear because they created a product loved by millions and then gave it one of the worst conclusions possible in a project of this magnitude. Just as GOT popularity was something never seen the awfulness of its last season was something never seen (for a project this big). And D&D moving on to star wars should create a lot of problems for them! I hope that angry fans end up making Disney fire them. To me after this season they don t deserve to be responsable for something like SW.

About grrm and the books… I think S8 will hang over asoiaf for a long time and that will make people have negative feelings about the books. With grrm keeping the books close to the show I feel on the fence about Reading the next books… We just got a series of realy bad spoilers and grrm insists that they will become true as well in the books… Itis jsut hard being excited about future books...

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People tend to remember how a series ended - if it fell apart at the end, it leaves a bad taste.

Personally, I feel like I got everything I wanted in the stupidest way possible.

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13 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

As much as we can scorn D&D's writing skills and despise what they have done with Martin's work, we should admit that we are in a frank minority here: Game of Thrones has just received a record number of nominations for the emmys. Excluding documentaries and miniseries, it's the second best rated show in IMDB with a 9.4/10. It has broken the records for cable viewership, digital downloads, box set sales, and piracy.

It will be remembered as a great show, even if we know that it wasn't (or at least, that it could have been much greater in some capable hands)

The ratings drop away very sharply on IMDB for the last three episodes, though.

I will retain fond memories of Seasons 1 to 4, and some of Seasons 5 to 7.  I'll just sigh over what could have been, in respect of the last series.

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37 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The ratings drop away very sharply on IMDB for the last three episodes, though.

Same on Rotten Tomatoes: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/game_of_thrones/s08. Ratings by the audience are particularly damning.  That the show runners had to cancel their appearance at Comic-Con and no questions were allowed at the panel is also telling. 

Having been a  reader since the early noughties, I don't really care. Always found the hype about the show rather annoying. 

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A bad ending leaves a bad legacy. I don't hear anyone talking about it anymore. They killed the story and the love people had for it with such an awful final season. 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, divica said:

The problem is that I think nowadays people have acepted we had 3 phases of GOT. S1-4 that were great, S5/6/7 that strugled and had huge problems but were overall well acepted and S8 that is universally hated. I think there are several series that had great beguinings and as they got worse over time their status reflected that. Look at dexter for example… I dont think that people will simply Forget the last years of GOT...

I agree with a lot of what you say. I dont think the hate against D&D will ever disapear because they created a product loved by millions and then gave it one of the worst conclusions possible in a project of this magnitude. Just as GOT popularity was something never seen the awfulness of its last season was something never seen (for a project this big). And D&D moving on to star wars should create a lot of problems for them! I hope that angry fans end up making Disney fire them. To me after this season they don t deserve to be responsable for something like SW.

About grrm and the books… I think S8 will hang over asoiaf for a long time and that will make people have negative feelings about the books. With grrm keeping the books close to the show I feel on the fence about Reading the next books… We just got a series of realy bad spoilers and grrm insists that they will become true as well in the books… Itis jsut hard being excited about future books...

I think maybe this narrative of "seasons 1-4 great, seasons 5-7 medium, season 8 bad" will start to fade though. In many ways, it feels like a retrospective narrative; the show had a lot of weaknesses in the early seasons that are swept under the rug now as part of this narrative, and season 6 was considered to be fantastic when it was released, with some of the show's best episodes (in my opinion, it's a lot better than, say, season 2, or AFFC/ADWD). I think S8's hate will be reevaluated a lot, and in many ways, the "universal hatred" isn't reflected by many, including the Emmy awards, and even many reviewers who didn't think the ending was great but who also didn't hate it.

I'm also just confused as to how Season 8 can be considered "awfulness never seen before." Like, compared to some of the stuff in Season 7, or even some of the plotlines in earlier seasons (Dorne, Dany in Qarth, Theon's torture porn) I have a hard time understanding how this season is worse. Even if that's just my personal opinion, and peopIe are welcome to disagree, there is a lot of awful TV out there and a lot of awful movies, some of which are very succesful (Aquaman comes to mind). I have a hard time seeing how Season 8 or anything in Game of Thrones comes close to any of the awfulness of huge chunks of modern media. Again, this is where I think the legacy is going to change; I don't think everyone is suddenly going to be like "Game of Thrones season 8 was the best thing ever!" But there will be more room for less extreme opinions. 

And this is what I dislike the most about the reaction to the ending of Game of Thrones: "I hope angry fans make Disney fire D&D from their next project." Why? Why is delivering a disappointing product or season or movie considered such a crime that people should have their careers ruined over it? It'd be one thing if D&D never delivered something you enjoyed; I don't want the writers of Two and a Half Men taking over Star Wars. But clearly, most fans (except for the most extreme of book fans) loved at least the early seasons, and many loved more than that. It's like the reaction to Rian Johnson: he's made tons of great movies, yet suddenly he should never work again because some people think The Last Jedi was terrible (an opinion I don't share). Why does everything have to be so personal in nerd culture? When one of my favourite authors or bands releases a new book or album and it's mediocre or bad, that can be disappointing, but it doesn't mean they didn't try to write something great, and it doesn't mean their next book or album won't be phenomenal. I thought the ending and final season to Lost was pretty bad, but since then, Cuse and Lindelof have written some fantastic television.

 

Edited by Caligula_K3

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It will be the example people point to of how an ending can make or break a series.

Also, it shows how much people are willing to forgive, when they still have hope everything will conclude in a satisfying manner. There were massive flaws from season 5 onward, maybe even earlier depending on how forgiving you are, and after such a horribly botched ending, people become a lot less forgiving. 

 

 

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