Joe Abercrombie: The Collected Works 3 (Includes A Little Hatred Spoiler discussion)

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Is it though? I would say by the end of the first book only Glokta really cemented himself in my mind as particularly interesting and engaging. The other characters were interesting and obviously the story was compelling or I wouldn't have continued. But I don't really think these new characters after one book compare disfavourably to Logen etc. after one book either. I think a lot of character expectation is based on 2,3 or 4 books worth of content to get to know them. It may be that at the end of the trilogy i agree with the criticism but for now I don't really feel the characters compare poorly for where we are in the series

My impression of Logen was bastard lovechild of Aragorn and Conan.  So I definitely found him a fascinating figure.  Bayaz too. They were identified in the blurbs no? But I read the books back to back so hard to dissociate now.  Maybe Bethod becomes more prominent in the later books.  

The question of whether the first book stands up in comparison to the First Law is more nuanced though because the First Law was new.  All of us reading these books now have read most or all of what Joe has written.  His changing genres for the standalones/shorts kept things fresh. 

Have I met an extremely memorable character in A Little Hatred? No, I don't think so.  My memory is a bit fuzzy now but I didn't really see Glokta's cleverness in his daughter.  Don't get me wrong: a decent Abercrombie book is still miles better than 99% of everyone else.  To your point that it's too soon to tell do you see any of the new cast as promising?

[Jo498]

I also think that one could hold a 10th? book to a bit higher standards than a debut. Also, in TBI Jezal is supposed to be shallow/ one dimensional, it's not a weakness of characterization.  I could not be bothered to re-read FL and "Half a x", so I don't want to compare too much to the older books but IMO "Little Hatred" definitely had a problem of pacing in the first third. Too many viewpoint changes with some not terribly interesting characters each getting very short sections and not happening much for almost 200 pages.

[Caligula_K3]

I had the opposite problem with A Little Hatred- I found the pacing to be great until the final third, which didn't have much happening aside from a love square.

As for characters, I think here tastes just vary. I thought it was probably Abercrombie's best cast of POV characters since Best Served Cold.

[Maithanet]

ALH is by no means flawless, but I think that it does a decent enough job of introducing the characters, at least as well as TBI. 

If we're talking about the complaint review, describing Finree (who isn't a POV at all) as "the almost omnipotent mother with a penis complex" is ridiculous.  Finree is doing the best she can with very limited resources, and her frustrations that her airhead son is about to supplant her are both quite reasonable and fairly understated in the novel. 

3 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I had the opposite problem with A Little Hatred- I found the pacing to be great until the final third, which didn't have much happening aside from a love square.

I agree, I thought that the post-duel section was the weakest part - a lot of setup for the next books without much else going on.

[Jo498]

It's not mutually exclusive. There can be a weak start with too many short sections and not much really happening besides a bit character exposition for almost 200 pages and a slow section later on. I don't really like any of the characters (they are too often like taken from 90s action or high school movies, only with swords and axes, and BSC was actually a mix between Mission impossible and Kill Bill or sth. like that, only with renaissance accoutrement) but I don't read fantasy for interesting or plausible characters. Surprising was the lenient treatment

Spoiler

of Glokta's daughter during the uprising/riots. When this started, I was pretty sure that they would be at least raped, disfigured or probably both but she got off very lightly for Abercrombian standards. Shows that he is a pseudo-grimdark wimp.

 

[jurble]

Finally read A Little Hatred, 

 

it's amusing that Eaters are common knowledge and Yoru Sulfur doesn't bother pretending to be a banker anymore.  Just tells people he's a Magus and they're like "k."   I imagine it was precipitated by the collapse of the Gurkish and the widespread knowledge of the Eaters?

And the vision with the animals - who's the owl?  Lamb is revealed as the Prince near the end.  

 

My opinion is that the book... was unnecessary?  It seems like an extended excuse to introduce to characters that will do more interesting things in the the rest of the trilogy.  But all of these backstories could've happened off-screen with random bits of exposition. 

 

[SeanF]

On 8/22/2020 at 9:41 AM, Jo498 said:

It's not mutually exclusive. There can be a weak start with too many short sections and not much really happening besides a bit character exposition for almost 200 pages and a slow section later on. I don't really like any of the characters (they are too often like taken from 90s action or high school movies, only with swords and axes, and BSC was actually a mix between Mission impossible and Kill Bill or sth. like that, only with renaissance accoutrement) but I don't read fantasy for interesting or plausible characters. Surprising was the lenient treatment

  Hide contents

of Glokta's daughter during the uprising/riots. When this started, I was pretty sure that they would be at least raped, disfigured or probably both but she got off very lightly for Abercrombian standards. Shows that he is a pseudo-grimdark wimp.

 

I liked that part.  I liked that Broad's daughter was using her brain, and seeing that Savine could be their passport out of the shithole she lived in, rather than going for the quick reward.

[Jo498]

Savine's life could have been saved by the Broads after a nasty cut across the face or a few involuntary turns at the old in-out (or whatever Alex's expression was). Of course one can argue that thwarting a reader's expectations is an interesting move by the author

[Maithanet]

I think that Abercrombie is aware that rape-as-drama to raise the stakes for female characters is an overused trope in fantasy, and sought to avoid it.  I thought it was a good choice.

[The BlackBear]

It would need to be treated with the weight it deserves. Joe's writing always seems very light on it's feet and funny to me, he rarely actually goes that dark. I think one of the pythons said: 'Death is funny, pain isn't.'

It's actually one of my biggest criticism of Robin Hobb, her depictions of sexual assault I always felt are poorly done, to the extent it detracts from the story.

[Jo498]

As I said, it could as well have been a non-sexual injury. The episode is very clearly treated as deflating her arrogant self but what she has to endure for this, i.e. a few hours of fear and flight and a few weeks or months of lower class life (cinderella) is pretty close to the chastisement of "arrogant princesses" in fairy tales or 19th century novels (only these girls weren't also powerful entreprenesses). So it is actually a rather tired clichée and feels very mild compared to the ordeals many other characters in these books have to go through.

[Maltaran]

I think that’s kind of the point, the experience is mild enough that once she’s back in Adua we see that she actually hasn’t changed her ways at all.

[jurble]

In the First Law, didn't Logan lose his home village because the Shanka have been moving in from the Edge of the World and taking more territory?

 

Whatever happened to that, did they... stop?  Are we going to have Leo + Stour invade the Union... and then Orcs randomly invade the North and Angland?

[HexMachina]

11 hours ago, ير بال said:

In the First Law, didn't Logan lose his home village because the Shanka have been moving in from the Edge of the World and taking more territory?

 

Whatever happened to that, did they... stop?  Are we going to have Leo + Stour invade the Union... and then Orcs randomly invade the North and Angland?

I believe we last saw the Shania in Red Country? I guess it's something that could be picked up again but I don't think it will be personally

[Andrew Gilfellon]

26 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I believe we last saw the Shania in Red Country? I guess it's something that could be picked up again but I don't think it will be personally

Shanka are in the next book. Joe Abercombie has an exerpt up on his webpage. 

[Werthead]

About of a quarter of the way into The Trouble with Peace. So far better than A Little Hatred, maybe because of the dramatically wider scope, with a strong rotation of POVs throughout multiple fronts in the Union.

Spoiler

I am starting to wonder if the sequence where Westport is holding a vote to secede from the Union ended up being impacted by real-life politics. There's a distinct Brexity vibe going on here, although the solution - Ken Clarke saving Nigel Farage from an assassin and convincing him to swap sides - is alas inapplicable.

 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Andrew Gilfellon said:

Shanka are in the next book. Joe Abercombie has an exerpt up on his webpage. 

‘You want to impress a girl, take a bunch o’ flowers.’ Flick gave a sad sigh. ‘You want to impress a King o’ the Northmen, bring a sack o’ heads.’

[Andrew Gilfellon]

16 hours ago, SeanF said:

‘You want to impress a girl, take a bunch o’ flowers.’ Flick gave a sad sigh. ‘You want to impress a King o’ the Northmen, bring a sack o’ heads.’

Where was this advice when I was dating? 

[Ormond]

Very sorry, posted in wrong thread. 

[BigFatCoward]

Very positive reviews so far. Why is it still over 2 weeks away?