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UlisesJV

Bran Stark will go to the Wall to revive Jon Snow and save Shireen Baratheon

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It’s not a theory, it´s just what I think will happen in TWOW. Bran will come to the south of the Wall during the main attack of the others, which is close since what we get from what it´s happening in Hardhome. I think now he has more control over his powers and has seen what it´s happening in all Westeros, first he will go to the Wall using the tunnels that Ygritte mentioned to Jon, here he will have to confront Melisandre, who thinks Bran serve to the Great Other and maybe is planning to burn Shireen to bring Jon back to life, but we have seen that those who R’hllor bring back are not alive at all (Beric Dondarrion and Catelyn Tully) only Bran has come back from death, the prove its all the bones he saw in his dreams and the Tree-Eyed Raven told him that all of them have failed. I don’t know how but he will defeat Melisandre and win the support of the free folk and the Night Watch and he will bring back Jon to command the battle. In the meanwhile and as he can't fight I think he will start a relation with Shireen maybe at first just as friends, cause I don’t see Meera Reed getting to the end of TWOW, maybe this hurt will be the point where Bran and Shireen begin their relationship, and since both are “broken” to society that will join them more.

Edited by UlisesJV

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What makes you believe that besides warging and Greenseeing, Bran would also have the capability to ressurrect dead people? Wouldn't that be a bit too much magic concentrated in one person? To me that doesn't feel like what GRRM would do. He has stated, that in fantasy the use of magic required prudence and that there shouldn't be too much of it.

Besides, I think that at least for TWOW Bran will stay in the cave with the COTF and the 3Eyed Raven, much to learn he still has, our young Bran-Padawan.

Edited by Greywater-Watch

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On 12/20/2019 at 4:27 AM, Greywater-Watch said:

What makes you believe that besides warging and Greenseeing, Bran would also have the capability to ressurrect dead people? Wouldn't that be a bit too much magic concentrated in one person? To me that doesn't feel like what GRRM would do. He has stated, that in fantasy the use of magic required prudence and that there shouldn't be too much of it.

Besides, I think that at least for TWOW Bran will stay in the cave with the COTF and the 3Eyed Raven, much to learn he still has, our young Bran-Padawan.

I don’t think he will resurrect him by a kind of magic, as Three Raven Eyed did with Bran, called him to come back from whatever GRRM has created as between death and live world, Bran is either capable to go to this world as a “guide”. I believe that Jon is alive is Ghost body, and although Melisandre has shown to has  a certain relation with Ghost that even Jon didn’t understand, only Bran has capable to recognize a Skinchager in his/her beast body, when he saw Varamyr in One Eye body while he was inside Summer. Also deaths are meaningful to GRRM and even if Shireen is a minor character I don’t see her dying to just to “coincidence” Jon coming back to life at the moment and Melisandre taking the credit.

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I don't think Melisandre will be responsible for Shireen's death. I think Shireen's death will be a scheme of Selyse. Nor do I think killing Shireen will be the cause of Jon's resurrection.

I do think Bran will be leaving the cave.

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9 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I don't think Melisandre will be responsible for Shireen's death. I think Shireen's death will be a scheme of Selyse. Nor do I think killing Shireen will be the cause of Jon's resurrection.

I do think Bran will be leaving the cave.

I read again Melisandre's POV chapter, and I think you are right about Selyse killing Shireen. First, Melisandre has a great interest in Jon Snow, and although many have suggested that is because she thinks now that Jon is Azor Ahai. I think is because she needs him for use the power that she claims is in the Wall. We see in the chapter when Bran passed behind the Wall that it has will and just allow to pass those who it wants, and it is loyal to the Night's Watch. I think Melisandre has realize that she is not allowed to use the power of the Wall. That it is why she needs to gain his confidence, to convince him to allow her to use this power. Second, Melisandre has made a brainwashing in Selyse and her men about King's blood and free folk is afraid of Shireen condition, as we see in Val's thought. So when the others start the attack, I think that the desesperation will drive them to try to burn Shireen, even if it is not what Melisandre wants. But I keep that Bran will come in time to stop it,  and then help Jon Snow to come back to life.

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Selyse is mot portrayed as an especially loving or nice mother, her interactions with Shireen are minimal to be fair. But its a long way from indifference to “i will sacrifice my daughter.” And the story just hasn’t done anything to earn/establish that imo

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On 1/3/2020 at 5:24 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

Selyse is mot portrayed as an especially loving or nice mother, her interactions with Shireen are minimal to be fair. But its a long way from indifference to “i will sacrifice my daughter.” And the story just hasn’t done anything to earn/establish that imo

It has established pretty well that Selyse is a zealot, Red Rahloo’s fangirl to the core IMO. And I think a religious fanatic is more likely than pretty much anyone else to commit such atrocity as immolating one’s own only child. 

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On 1/3/2020 at 4:24 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

Selyse is mot portrayed as an especially loving or nice mother, her interactions with Shireen are minimal to be fair. But its a long way from indifference to “i will sacrifice my daughter.” And the story just hasn’t done anything to earn/establish that imo

What book are you reading?

Selyse is not indifferent to Shireen. Selyse is mean to Shireen. Not only does she not like Shireen as a person, Selyse projects her own self-loathing in regards to not being to produce a healthy son for Stannis onto Shireen who is both a girl and unhealthy.

Selyse is very unkind to her daughter. And as @kissdbyfire has stated, Selyse also is a zealot. I'll go so far as to say that Selyse is more radical than Melisandre.

On 1/1/2020 at 10:42 PM, UlisesJV said:

I read again Melisandre's POV chapter, and I think you are right about Selyse killing Shireen. First, Melisandre has a great interest in Jon Snow, and although many have suggested that is because she thinks now that Jon is Azor Ahai. I think is because she needs him for use the power that she claims is in the Wall. We see in the chapter when Bran passed behind the Wall that it has will and just allow to pass those who it wants, and it is loyal to the Night's Watch. I think Melisandre has realize that she is not allowed to use the power of the Wall. That it is why she needs to gain his confidence, to convince him to allow her to use this power. Second, Melisandre has made a brainwashing in Selyse and her men about King's blood and free folk is afraid of Shireen condition, as we see in Val's thought. So when the others start the attack, I think that the desesperation will drive them to try to burn Shireen, even if it is not what Melisandre wants. But I keep that Bran will come in time to stop it,  and then help Jon Snow to come back to life.

I actually have this theory that Melisandre's actions at the Wall (and her desire to draw upon the magic of the Wall) are going to weaken the Wall exponentially. That way, it will be easy for whatever the hell is happening in Oldtown with Euron, the Horn of Winter and the Hightower to actually destroy the Wall.

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2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

What book are you reading?

Great Expectations, currently. Yourself?

Quote

Selyse is not indifferent to Shireen. Selyse is mean to Shireen. Not only does she not like Shireen as a person, Selyse projects her own self-loathing in regards to not being to produce a healthy son for Stannis onto Shireen who is both a girl and unhealthy.

Selyse is very unkind to her daughter.

Citation needed.

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On 1/6/2020 at 6:32 PM, kissdbyfire said:

It has established pretty well that Selyse is a zealot, Red Rahloo’s fangirl to the core IMO. And I think a religious fanatic is more likely than pretty much anyone else to commit such atrocity as immolating one’s own only child. 

She has certainly been portrayed as a zealot. But thats not enough imo. Even for a zealot, the burning of any child, never mind your own, is very significant step. And while Selyse will never win mother of the year, neither do i think her regret and indifference gives her enough motivation and will to kill her own child.

And lest anyone cite Alester Florent, an uncle (or is he a cousin?) is not a daughter, nor a child. And, in Selyse’s eyes at least, he committed the ultimate sin of betraying her husband and her God’s chosen one

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7 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Great Expectations, currently. Yourself?

Citation needed.

A Song for Lya, interestingly enough.

BRB with the citation

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Though I agree that Selyse is unkind to Shireen, Selyse needs her in order to remain in power.  Selyse's power and ability to spread the word of R'hllor lies in Stannis' influence as a potential king.  If Stannis dies his power would go to Shireen, not Selyse.  If Stannis dies, all Selyse's influence becomes bound in her daughter's power.  Remember, this is medieval society.  In this case, the child is far more important than the wife.  Shireen's king's blood is of vital importance to Mel, but then again, so is the baby's masquerading as Dalla's boy.  Whether Mel can distinguish the child's true identity remains to be seen, but this was Jon's great concern in enacting the baby swap with Gilly.  You have to ask who else in Mel's proximity has king's blood.  Well, Jon, but then again, can Mel figure this out?  I don't think she has reached the conclusion that Jon is Azor Ahai.  This will come later, likely after Stannis is dead.  Val sorta has king's blood.   Sigorn?  The point is Shireen is not the only option for burning at the Wall. 

Bran has not demonstrated any ability to heal or resurrect anyone.  He scared Meera just thinking about comforting her.  Bran is powerful, but seriously undisciplined. I think Bran's got a whole lot more to do with Bloodraven, but will he actually get all the training he needs?  When I consider Bran's interference with Jon's er, recuperation, I can only base ideas on what Bran's actually done...take over bodies.  Can Bran inhabit Jon's body without Jon's consciousness?   Why not?   What good would it do?  Will Bran be able to reunite Jon with his body?  Why would Jon want to leave Ghost?  

I think Mel is the most likely person to reconnect Jon with his body.  We haven't seen Thoros burn anyone in order to make a dead person revive.  I don't think burning king's blood is a required part of this er, procedure.   

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9 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Bran has not demonstrated any ability to heal or resurrect anyone

True. But neither has Mel. :dunno:

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Posted (edited)
On 1/8/2020 at 2:14 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

She has certainly been portrayed as a zealot. But thats not enough imo. Even for a zealot, the burning of any child, never mind your own, is very significant step. And while Selyse will never win mother of the year, neither do i think her regret and indifference gives her enough motivation and will to kill her own child.

 

On 1/8/2020 at 11:33 AM, BlackLightning said:

What book are you reading?

Selyse is not indifferent to Shireen. Selyse is mean to Shireen. Not only does she not like Shireen as a person, Selyse projects her own self-loathing in regards to not being to produce a healthy son for Stannis onto Shireen who is both a girl and unhealthy.

Selyse is very unkind to her daughter. And as @kissdbyfire has stated, Selyse also is a zealot. I'll go so far as to say that Selyse is more radical than Melisandre.

I think perhaps you may be confusing the show with the books.  But I do agree Selyse is a zealot and a greater zealot than Melisandre.  Melisandre is certainly a true believer but she is also understands the art of manipulation, specifically the ability to manipulate the religious beliefs of others.  So Melisandre may be a bit more jaded than Selyse, who has adopted her new religion with unquestioning acceptance.

I do agree with HelenaExMachina, however, that at least as it stands now, Selyse has no intention of sacrificing her only child:

Quote

"Eastwatch is not safe."  The queen put a hand on her daughter's shoulder.  "This is the king's true heir.  Shireen will one day sit the Iron Throne and rule the Seven Kingdoms.  She must be kept from harm, and Eastwatch is where the attack will come.

Of course, things are always subject to change.

Edited by Frey family reunion

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

True. But neither has Mel. :dunno:

Yah, that's true, but I make the jump with Thoros and the overall R'hllor experience.  For all we know Moqorro healed Vic, right?  Sorry that made me laugh.  

Edited by Curled Finger
Gads

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Posted (edited)

I don't think Bran will leave the cave. Like BR, only by fusing with a weirwood can he become a full greenseer. Maybe become one with the old gods. Alone he will have a short life, shorter than most. No more abilities than the ghost of High Heart (and warging for what it's worth). I don't know how Jon will come back to life. But it doesn't mean BR, Bran and the old gods will not have a hand in it.

Melissandre and her god R'hllor, may revive him. If Jon is AAR. They may sacrifice Shireen. But she has the Grey Scale and IMO, as Val hinted, she has to contaminate someone, Selyse possibly, before being burned.

Edited by BalerionTheCat

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I don't think this will happen. 

It's pretty hard and dangerous. Bran is the next grennsee. His job in the saga is as important as Jon's. And going to the wall takes much time! Anyway, Martin already said the princess is going to die. None is go to save her. And I reckon It's pretty early to Bran to know revive anyone. Actually, I even know if greensees have this power. BR couldn't fix legs' Bran.

But I reckon Bran will be VERY important for Jon. First, I believe that, like Bran in AGOT, Jon is not died, but he's almost. Also, I think that Benjen found the COTF. And they convinced he to sacrifice himself to save Bran. Now, Bran will enter in dreams' Theon to convince him to sacrifice himself to save Jon. Do you remember the strange dream Jaime had while slept in a tree - that white tree I don't know its name in English? I imagine BR entered in his dreams. Now, Theon believes in the Old Gods, his story finished, and he likely will like to do something good. I think Bran will ask directly. 

 

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About Selyse: "She hates the cold but loves the flames. He had only to look at her to see that. A word from Melisandre, and she would walk into the fire willingly, embrace it like a lover".

Jon removing Dalla's son and Aemon from the Wall has made the situation very difficult for Gilly's son (officially Dalla's son) and Shireen, the last ones with king's blood. Yes Selyse has claim as Stannis' wife (supposed dead in the end of DWD) or Shireen's regent but probably she envisions herself more as the wife of the messiah than a queen consort. She can sacrifice Shireen to help Stannis.

 

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On 4/8/2020 at 2:47 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

don't think Bran will leave the cave. Like BR, only by fusing with a weirwood can he become a full greenseer. Maybe become one with the old gods. Alone he will have a short life, shorter than most. No more abilities than the ghost of High Heart (and warging for what it's worth). I don't know how Jon will come back to life. But it doesn't mean BR, Bran and the old gods will not have a hand in it.

 

On 6/29/2020 at 6:36 AM, Garota Sem Rosto said:

But I reckon Bran will be VERY important for Jon. First, I believe that, like Bran in AGOT, Jon is not died, but he's almost.

Rereading Jon VI from ACOK, we know that Bran is really important for Jon.  Bran opened Jon’s third eye before his first wolf dream.

We also know that Bran is in the cave at this point and surrounded by death - Jon can smell it - but Bran says that he enjoys life down in the cave.

Why did the intervention have to be at this point?  I always thought it was to ‘save’ Jon but what if it was to save Ghost?  Bran or Bloodraven recognise that for Jon to get his second life ‘vessel’ that Ghost needs to be saved after the eagle attack? 
 

I’m convinced that we are going to see the flip side of this scene, from Bran’s viewpoint, in TWOW... perhaps towards the end of his arc as the intervention with Jon is much more significant than his interventions so far with Theon.

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On 12/16/2019 at 10:28 AM, UlisesJV said:

It’s not a theory, it´s just what I think will happen in TWOW. Bran will come to the south of the Wall during the main attack of the others, which is close since what we get from what it´s happening in Hardhome. I think now he has more control over his powers and has seen what it´s happening in all Westeros, first he will go to the Wall using the tunnels that Ygritte mentioned to Jon, here he will have to confront Melisandre, who thinks Bran serve to the Great Other and maybe is planning to burn Shireen to bring Jon back to life, but we have seen that those who R’hllor bring back are not alive at all (Beric Dondarrion and Catelyn Tully) only Bran has come back from death, the prove its all the bones he saw in his dreams and the Tree-Eyed Raven told him that all of them have failed. I don’t know how but he will defeat Melisandre and win the support of the free folk and the Night Watch and he will bring back Jon to command the battle. In the meanwhile and as he can't fight I think he will start a relation with Shireen maybe at first just as friends, cause I don’t see Meera Reed getting to the end of TWOW, maybe this hurt will be the point where Bran and Shireen begin their relationship, and since both are “broken” to society that will join them more.

At first, Bran Stark is one of my favorite characters. He does not talk too much, and he is quite mysterious. But at the end of the TV show, he makes me disappointed. Watching the last episode is a thing waste of time.

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