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Posted (edited)

So I know that we’ve been told that Ice was forged 400 years ago and considering the doom was also 400 years ago it must have been forged not long before the doom. That being said do we know which Stark ordered it to be forged + any additional info we may have? I’ve scoured the wikis and not found anything so I’m wondering if anyone has any info that I might have missed, thanks. 

Edited by Brandon Ice-Eyes V1

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A Stark did not make the sword.  He may have commissioned its making from old Valyrian steel.  They either got the sword as it was or came across old Valyrian steel as material.  A smith from Qohor could have reforged the steel into the two-hander.  

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2 minutes ago, Bullrout said:

A Stark did not make the sword.  He may have commissioned its making from old Valyrian steel.  They either got the sword as it was or came across old Valyrian steel as material.  A smith from Qohor could have reforged the steel into the two-hander.  

That’s what I meant, changed it so it’s more obvious 

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Just now, Brandon Ice-Eyes V1 said:

That’s what I meant, changed it so it’s more obvious 

The steel they could have bought a long time ago.  Another lord later can easily have it remade into the two-hander called Ice.  But yeah.  Where and how the metal came into their hands is a good question.

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A possible explanation is that Aegon the Conqueror gave  Torrhen Stark the valyrian sword when he bent the knee.  So it would have been forged in Essos and already in Aegon's possession.

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3 hours ago, LynnS said:

A possible explanation is that Aegon the Conqueror gave  Torrhen Stark the valyrian sword when he bent the knee.  So it would have been forged in Essos and already in Aegon's possession.

Why would he do that??

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1 minute ago, frenin said:

Why would he do that??

To raise him up after his capitulation.  To make him Warden of the North with credibility. To symbolically and politically make Torrhen his 'sword'.  To show himself as a benefactor rather than a destroyer.  To replace the sword that was taken and used to forge the iron throne.  It's a kingly gift.   

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1 minute ago, LynnS said:

To raise him up after his capitulation.  To make him Warden of the North with credibility. To symbolically and politically make Torrhen his 'sword'.  To show himself as a benefactor rather than a destroyer.  To replace the sword that was taken and used to forge the iron throne.  It's a kingly gift.   

And why only Torrhen?? Why not the Lannisters, Tyrells or Arryns etc?? It would be a useless reward since the Starks resented their new overlords for a century.

That and the fact that the Starks are said to have that sword for a century prior Aegon's coming and that's the kind of propaganda that doesn't get obscured in history.

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4 minutes ago, frenin said:

And why only Torrhen?? Why not the Lannisters, Tyrells or Arryns etc?? It would be a useless reward since the Starks resented their new overlords for a century.

 We are talking about how the Starks came to possess a valyrian swrod.  We know it's 400 years old and nobody has the knowledge for forging one in Westeros.  So they would have to purchase it or acquire it by other means.  The most likely possibility in my view; is that Aegon gave it to Stark for becoming one of his lords paramount and being the kings justice in the North.  Regardless of the resentment;  the North would have been completed destroyed by Aegon if he didn't capitulate.

This is just my opinion.  You are free to think what you want. 

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I don't there's any reason to believe that Aegon gave the sword to Torrhen Stark. But the Starks getting the sword around the same time as the Doom is really interesting.

We have a sword that was possibly forged with dragon fire (going with the general speculation here), in a place that was part of the Lands of Always Summer is sold to House Stark, named Ice after a sword they used to have during the Age of Heroes, and taken to the north and a place of cold. 

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Ice is not the lightbringer.  Any swordsmith who knows how to rework Valyrian Steel could have made it for the Starks.  The Valyrians were trading with the kingdoms of Westeros before the conquest.  There were no conflicts.  As far as we know.  So it is not likely that it was won from battle.  The Starks are too frugal to have purchased it.  Good question OP.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, LynnS said:

 We are talking about how the Starks came to possess a valyrian swrod.  We know it's 400 years old and nobody has the knowledge for forging one in Westeros.  So they would have to purchase it or acquire it by other means.  The most likely possibility in my view; is that Aegon gave it to Stark for becoming one of his lords paramount and being the kings justice in the North.  Regardless of the resentment;  the North would have been completed destroyed by Aegon if he didn't capitulate.

This is just my opinion.  You are free to think what you want. 

And why would anyone covered the story?? Westeros would've been completely destroyed if they didn't capitulate, yet Aegon wasn't handing over priceless heirloms to his former enemies. The very fact that the sword has been in the Stark's possesion for 400 years means that Aegon could not have done it.

Edited by frenin

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18 minutes ago, frenin said:

The very fact that the sword has been in the Stark's possesion for 400 years means that Aegon could not have done it.

I don't know where it says the Starks have had it for 400 years.  Only that the sword was forged 400 year ago and then the Starks acquired it.  It doesn't say when they acquired it.  You'll have to show me that in the text.

Quote

The name "Ice" is a legacy from the Age of Heroes and predates the current sword. About four hundred years before King Robert I Baratheon's reign, the Valyrian steel greatsword was spell-forged in Valyria and acquired by House Stark, who named it after that legacy.[2]

 

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Many Valyrian nobles were not very friendly toward people they considered lesser beings. So most people they ruled had very good reasons to hate them. So when real power source of the empire (dragons) "disappeared" then I assume that many of those lordlings lost their lives and property including Valyrian steel weapons. Or I assume that one possible source for Ice (and other VS weapons in Westeros) is spoil of war gained by looters who raided homes of their previous overlords. That would explain time when Starks gained Ice.

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Good question.

As the sword was huge and had enough steel for two full-sized  longswords (Tywin wouldn't allow Jaime or Joff to carry skimpy swords ;)), Ice had to have been a custom order or a custom gift specifically for the Starks. Ned used it more for ceremony and executions due to its size with its most prominent mentions being the opening execution, Lady's execution, Ned's own execution, and Jorah escaping his execution. In the fight with Jaime, Ned has a sword, but Ice is not mentioned. I wonder about a use for the Others as vs for a sword so large it's difficult to wield in battle seems more than odd and I agree with the poster above that 2 vs swords turned into one sword difficult for fighting seems an odd luxury for the Starks or any house tbh.

That the Lannisters had a hard time customizing it to their specs may hint that something in how Ice was created was different than most vs swords. It's made clear that the guy who reforged Ice is very skilled, yet he was perplexed by the sword not turning out as planned. The Lannister crimson wanted to turn back into the Stark smoke, yet the Stark smoke and Lannister very dark crimson wouldn't touch.

AGOT Bran I

There were questions asked and answers given there in the chill of morning, but afterward Bran could not recall much of what had been said. Finally his lord father gave a command, and two of his guardsmen dragged the ragged man to the ironwood stump in the center of the square. They forced his head down onto the hard black wood. Lord Eddard Stark dismounted and his ward Theon Greyjoy brought forth the sword. "Ice," that sword was called. It was as wide across as a man's hand, and taller even than Robb. The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.  

AGOT Eddard III

Ned had made the long journey west to Bear Island, only to find when he arrived that  Jorah had taken ship beyond the reach of Ice and the king's justice. Five years had passed since then.

...

"Send for Ilyn Payne."

"No," Ned said. "Jory, take the girls back to their rooms and bring me Ice." The words tasted of bile in his throat, but he forced them out. "If it must be done, I will do it."

 

ASOS Tyrion IV

At long last, Father? Valyrian steel blades were scarce and costly, yet thousands remained in the world, perhaps two hundred in the Seven Kingdoms alone. It had always irked his father that none belonged to House Lannister. The old Kings of the Rock had owned such a weapon, but the greatsword Brightroar had been lost when the second King Tommen carried it back to Valyria on his fool's quest. He had never returned; nor had Uncle Gery, the youngest and most reckless of his father's brothers, who had gone seeking after the lost sword some eight years past.

Thrice at least Lord Tywin had offered to buy Valyrian longswords from impoverished lesser houses, but his advances had always been firmly rebuffed. The little lordlings would gladly part with their daughters should a Lannister come asking, but they cherished their old family swords.

Tyrion wondered where the metal for this one had come from. A few master armorers could rework old Valyrian steel, but the secrets of its making had been lost when the Doom came to old Valyria. "The colors are strange," he commented as he turned the blade in the sunlight. Most Valyrian steel was a grey so dark it looked almost black, as was true here as well. But blended into the folds was a red as deep as the grey. The two colors lapped over one another without ever touching, each ripple distinct, like waves of night and blood upon some steely shore. "How did you get this patterning? I've never seen anything like it."

"Nor I, my lord," said the armorer. "I confess, these colors were not what I intended, and I do not know that I could duplicate them. Your lord father had asked for the crimson of your House, and it was that color I set out to infuse into the metal. But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see. If my lords of Lannister are displeased, I will of course try again, as many times as you should require, but—"

"No need," Lord Tywin said. "This will serve."

"A crimson sword might flash prettily in the sun, but if truth be told I like these colors better," said Tyrion. "They have an ominous beauty . . . and they make this blade unique. There is no other sword like it in all the world, I should think."

"There is one." The armorer bent over the table and unfolded the bundle of oilcloth, to reveal a second longsword.

Tyrion put down Joffrey's sword and took up the other. If not twins, the two were at least close cousins. This one was thicker and heavier, a half-inch wider and three inches longer, but they shared the same fine clean lines and the same distinctive color, the ripples of blood and night. Three fullers, deeply incised, ran down the second blade from hilt to point; the king's sword had only two. Joff's hilt was a good deal more ornate, the arms of its crossguard done as lions' paws with ruby claws unsheathed, but both swords had grips of finely tooled red leather and gold lions' heads for pommels.

"Magnificent." Even in hands as unskilled as Tyrion's, the blade felt alive. "I have never felt better balance."

"It is meant for my son."

No need to ask which son. Tyrion placed Jaime's sword back on the table beside Joffrey's, wondering if Robb Stark would let his brother live long enough to wield it. Our father must surely think so, else why have this blade forged?

"You have done good work, Master Mott," Lord Tywin told the armorer. "My steward will see to your payment. And remember, rubies for the scabbards."

"I shall, my lord. You are most generous." The man folded the swords up in the oilcloth, tucked the bundle under one arm, and went to his knee. "It is an honor to serve the King's Hand. I shall deliver the swords the day before the wedding."

"See that you do."

When the guards had seen the armorer out, Tyrion clambered up onto a chair. "So . . . a sword for Joff, a sword for Jaime, and not even a dagger for the dwarf. Is that the way of it, Father?"

"The steel was sufficient for two blades, not three. If you have need of a dagger, take one from the armory. Robert left a hundred when he died. Gerion gave him a gilded dagger with an ivory grip and a sapphire pommel for a wedding gift, and half the envoys who came to court tried to curry favor by presenting His Grace with jewel-encrusted knives and silver inlay swords."

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Many Valyrian nobles were not very friendly toward people they considered lesser beings. So most people they ruled had very good reasons to hate them. So when real power source of the empire (dragons) "disappeared" then I assume that many of those lordlings lost their lives and property including Valyrian steel weapons. Or I assume that one possible source for Ice (and other VS weapons in Westeros) is spoil of war gained by looters who raided homes of their previous overlords. That would explain time when Starks gained Ice.

That would make sense.  That also coincides with House Targaryen moving to Dragonstone

Quote

Twelve years before the Doom, Lord Aenar Targaryen's maiden daughter, Daenys the Dreamer, had a powerful prophetic dream along with visions that Valyria would be destroyed.[3] Foreseeing the Doom, she convinced her father to leave Valyria before the cataclysm. Aenar set sail, moving House Targaryen and their property and their five dragons to the island Dragonstone.[4] Other Houses of the narrow sea of Valyrian descent include the Velaryons of Driftmark and the Celtigars of Claw Isle.[4].

Aenar may have brought as much valyrian steel with him as possible.  The Doom was pretty destructive.  The fourteen flames where the Valyrian mines were located completely destroyed.  

Quote

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Valyria’s Children

The Valyrians learned one deplorable thing from the Ghiscari: slavery. The Ghiscari whom they conquered were the first to be thus enslaved, but not the last. The burning mountains of the Fourteen Flames were rich with ore, and the Valyrians hungered for it: copper and tin for the bronze of their weapons and monuments; later iron for the steel of their legendary blades; and always gold and silver to pay for it all.

The properties of Valyrian steel are well-known, and are the result of both folding iron many times to balance and remove impurities, and the use of spells—or at least arts we do not know—to give unnatural strength to the resulting steel. Those arts are now lost, though the smiths of Qohor claim to still know magics for reworking Valyrian steel without losing its strength or unsurpassed ability to hold an edge. The Valyrian steel blades that remain in the world might number in the thousands, but in the Seven Kingdoms there are only 227 such weapons according to Archmaester Thurgood's Inventories, some of which have since been lost or have disappeared from the annals of history.

 

 

Edited by LynnS

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