The Wheel of Time TV Show 4: The Budget Rising [BOOK SPOILERS]

[Ran]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

A brief look at the swords.

What, no quillions? No heron etched in the blade? 

I love the look, mind, and I had a long-running roleplay character in the WoT setting whose heron-mark sword had a tsuba-style guard just because, but ... I don't know, they could easily have more-or-less stuck to the description on this one and it would have looked great.

[Corvinus85]

22 minutes ago, Ran said:

What, no quillions? No heron etched in the blade? 

I love the look, mind, and I had a long-running roleplay character in the WoT setting whose heron-mark sword had a tsuba-style guard just because, but ... I don't know, they could easily have more-or-less stuck to the description on this one and it would have looked great.

What do you mean no heron etched in the blade? I guess the heron being of different material isn't etched, but still on the blade. Now, maybe you were referring to the herons on the hilt, assuming this is Tam's sword.

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

What do you mean no heron etched in the blade? I guess the heron being of different material isn't etched, but still on the blade. Now, maybe you were referring to the herons on the hilt, assuming this is Tam's sword.

That's not really etching, having a bronze bit welded onto the blade.

I assume it must be Tam's sword since the Twitter thread ends with the official account quoting Tam about having gotten the sword a long time ago.

[Poobah]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

A brief look at the swords.

I mean it looks OK but I'm curious why they just straight-up made what looks to me to be a very standard katana then stuck a heron on it rather than something a little more inspired, I mean take a look at the picture of the sword on the map in the books which has what I as a non-sword expert would regard as a more western style cross-guard and some other different features. It's also plot-relevant that there be raised herons on the grip for later. I remember seeing some, what I believe were officially licensed swords that seemed much more accurate to how I envisioned the swords used by blademasters in Wheel of Time.

[Ran]

11 minutes ago, Poobah said:

 It's also plot-relevant that there be raised herons on the grip for later. I remember seeing some, what I believe were officially licensed swords that seemed much more accurate to how I envisioned the swords used by blademasters in Wheel of Time.

Windlass made an officially licensed one here that is closer -- while adding a nod to the katana-origins of it by having a sort of tsuba (Japanese term for their round or oval guards) that's never described, as far as I can recall, as well as the quillions. No herons on the grip, and the quillions aren't braided metal -- doubtless a cost thing -- but otherwise that's probably nearer to what RJ intended.

Like, it's not a major issue or anything. It's just weird that when you could easily do a nice design based on the exact description, you go and do something that is both different and also less imaginative. It's an ... interesting aesthetic choice.

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

Windlass made an officially licensed one here that is closer -- while adding a nod to the katana-origins of it by having a sort of tsuba (Japanese term for their round or oval guards) that's never described, as far as I can recall, as well as the quillions. No herons on the grip, and the quillions aren't braided metal -- doubtless a cost thing -- but otherwise that's probably nearer to what RJ intended.

Like, it's not a major issue or anything. It's just weird that when you could easily do a nice design based on the exact description, you go and do something that is both different and also less imaginative. It's an ... interesting aesthetic choice.

Ran, are you suggesting that this show looks cheap and uninspired? I think that when the studio is trying to generate trailer-type interest but is afraid to show footage of the material it can only mean that said material is going to be MIND-BLOWING.

[Ran]

18 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Ran, are you suggesting that this show looks cheap and uninspired? I think that when the studio is trying to generate trailer-type interest but is afraid to show footage of the material it can only mean that said material is going to be MIND-BLOWING.

Hah. Not really what I was intending. I mean, the first teaser with any footage of GoT was about 10 months before its premiere. Given that this show has had its shooting disrupted, I wouldn't be surprised if it bowed in the later half of 2021, so ... not that far off.

[SpaceChampion]

Rafe Judkins does another Q&A on instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/stories/rafejudkins/2470672329213337214/

[Poobah]

10 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Rafe Judkins does another Q&A on instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/stories/rafejudkins/2470672329213337214/

Thanks!

For those of us who don't instagram I goodled up this summary on reddit.

Honestly a pretty interesting Q&A that shows, to me, that this is being done by people who have read and care about the books. I mean we'll have to wait and see of course but some of the answers about character minutiae and considering the adaptation in terms of the entire story rather than season-by-season sit well with me. 

[Werthead]

People bitching about Thom and Rand not lugging the harp around on screen, but seriously, having helped a friend move his harp around more than once, that is not really a practical thing. It'd look pretty bizarre on screen.

I note some fans concluded the same thing years back and have been arguing what Thom and co called a harp was closer to a lyre or something more portable, but apparently RJ meant a proper, full-on harp.

No wonder Thom was in such great shape for his age, humping one of those around thousands of miles would be quite a daily workout.

[A True Kaniggit]

8 minutes ago, Werthead said:

People bitching about Thom and Rand not lugging the harp around on screen, but seriously, having helped a friend move his harp around more than once, that is not really a practical thing. It'd look pretty bizarre on screen.

I note some fans concluded the same thing years back and have been arguing what Thom and co called a harp was closer to a lyre or something more portable, but apparently RJ meant a proper, full-on harp.

No wonder Thom was in such great shape for his age, humping one of those around thousands of miles would be quite a daily workout.

That’s what I always viewed it as. Something hand held.

On a side note I finished The Great Hunt again a few weeks ago, but have been unable to track down my copy of The Dragon Reborn. 

[Lightning Lord]

Wait... Thom was toting a full harp? I have imagined a lap-size harp for the last twenty years, which made sense. How did Thom shove a full-facking harp to Rand and then attack some Light-blinded Myrrrdraaal? I'd need a team of oxen (or one blacksmith) to move a full harp anywhere.

Also booze.

Merry Lightmas!

[Ran]

There's no way at all that RJ imagined a full-sized harp. There's nothing in the books that suggest it, nothing about it being unwieldy or needing multiple people to lug it, nothing that prevented Thom getting around, etc. The only evidence is he just used the term "harp".

He was almost certainly thinking something like the medieval harp, as here.

The description of the harp in its case is that it could be wrapped up inside Thom's cloak. Thom also slings it on his back to carry it, which limits the size. It's definitely a small harp, not a modern, large one that's nigh as tall as a person.

ETA: That said, no real issue with a guitar. The setting is sort of Renaissancy/Early Modern enough that early guitars make sense.

[Lightning Lord]

Yes, that's what I always imagined. Thom didn't tote around a mid-sized dolly to get to his performances. Or he did and I am wrong. It's effing fiction.

I dunno. I'm probably wrong. Thom had a twelve-foot-high harp, Rand's sword had life-sized herons burned into the blade, and Nynaeve literally (yes literally) tugged her braid all the way to Tar Valon in the first  New Age case of self-levitation/flight.

I need another beer.

[fionwe1987]

I agree, those answers make me confident that they rightly focussed on character motivation and overall feel, as opposed to every event and piece of dialog. 

 

The story has to be a remix of the books. And I like that they seem to understand how their changes will ripple down the story, and actually have the whole story to consider for condensing it appropriately. I'm hopeful they can come up with a story that holds together fairly well, where they're still able to bury some clues to later seasons in the early ones to give it the feel of WoT.

[Martell Spy]

Wheel of Time Music - Performance and Instruments

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2015/09/wheel-of-time-music-performance-and.html

Quote

 

Harp

The harp is a very ancient stringed musical instrument consisting of strings spanning a frame to a sounding board. The strings were traditionally made of gut and are plucked by the fingers. The Wheel of Time harps are all portable, or lap, harps; there are no large harps that are set on the floor.

The harp is a high-status instrument in the Wheel of Time world, as it was in ancient and medieval times.

The flute was a simple instrument. A lot of nobles would rather hear the harp instead; one man in Ebou Dar had told Mat the harp was more "elevated."

- Towers of Midnight, The Seven-Striped Lass

 

 

[Werthead]

8 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

The story has to be a remix of the books. And I like that they seem to understand how their changes will ripple down the story, and actually have the whole story to consider for condensing it appropriately. I'm hopeful they can come up with a story that holds together fairly well, where they're still able to bury some clues to later seasons in the early ones to give it the feel of WoT.

This is something we analysed a while back. Assuming 6-7 seasons of 8-10 episodes apiece, the WoT TV show is definitely going to have less time than Game of Thrones to tell a story that's more than twice as long (of the published material so far). This is going to be a somewhat compressed version of the story.

In an ideal universe we'd have an AMC-style run of 7 seasons of 16 episodes, adapting two books per season, but with the budget to do it justice. Since we're not getting that (and that may not even be achievable), we have to brace for greater changes than we had with GoT, even in Season 1. The trick is going to be doing that whilst keeping the characters and story somewhat recognisable.

Still, they have a built-in advantage that there's a whole ton of elements from later books even hardened fans will be more than happy to lose from the show.

[A True Kaniggit]

19 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Still, they have a built-in advantage that there's a whole ton of elements from later books even hardened fans will be more than happy to lose from the show.

What are you talking about?

It better take at least 2 whole seasons for Perrin to rescue Faile! 

(Hmmmm. If they even keep that plot)

[Poobah]

32 minutes ago, Werthead said:

This is something we analysed a while back. Assuming 6-7 seasons of 8-10 episodes apiece, the WoT TV show is definitely going to have less time than Game of Thrones to tell a story that's more than twice as long (of the published material so far). This is going to be a somewhat compressed version of the story.

In an ideal universe we'd have an AMC-style run of 7 seasons of 16 episodes, adapting two books per season, but with the budget to do it justice. Since we're not getting that (and that may not even be achievable), we have to brace for greater changes than we had with GoT, even in Season 1. The trick is going to be doing that whilst keeping the characters and story somewhat recognisable.

Still, they have a built-in advantage that there's a whole ton of elements from later books even hardened fans will be more than happy to lose from the show.

My personal feeling with regards to changes is that there are likely gonna be more than diehard purists want but less than I think you are suggesting. WoT is very long but also quite bloated and extremely heavy on description and travelogue whereas ASoIaF is extremely dialogue heavy and the intrigue-based plots necessitate a lot of that being included. And yeah no-one is gonna complain if Faile doesn't spend 2 seasons kidnapped with entire episodes dedicated to Perrin storming around and complaining about not having found her yet.

 

[Werthead]

50 minutes ago, Poobah said:

My personal feeling with regards to changes is that there are likely gonna be more than diehard purists want but less than I think you are suggesting. WoT is very long but also quite bloated and extremely heavy on description and travelogue whereas ASoIaF is extremely dialogue heavy and the intrigue-based plots necessitate a lot of that being included. And yeah no-one is gonna complain if Faile doesn't spend 2 seasons kidnapped with entire episodes dedicated to Perrin storming around and complaining about not having found her yet.

I do know that some of the changes in Season 1 are going to make people go WTF and declare this the worst thing ever (at least until they think about it versus the realities of TV production). They're certainly making much bigger changes at the outset than GoT ever came close to doing.

Which is probably for the best so people get used to the looseness up front before they get to Season 4 and take a chainsaw to like 70% of Books 6-11.