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CamiloRP

(f)dany

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On 8/10/2020 at 3:14 PM, CamiloRP said:

I just finished rereading ASOIAF again and I found myself thinking about an essay I read a few years back, titled "(f)dany" (I think) that compiles a lot of evidence about how Dany is Rhaegar's daughter instead of his sister, I wanted to read that essay again but couldn't find it. Anyone knows where it is?

thanks a lot!

It is an interesting proposal but her identity is one of the few who have been proven many times.  There is little wiggle room for an alternate identity.  She is definitely the Child of Three.  Mother of Dragons, check.  Khaleesi, check.  Daenerys Stormborn, check.  Azor Ahai, check.  Sister of Prince Viserys, check.  Why would she have these visions of her ancestors, Rhaegar, Aerys, Viserys, if she is not who she is.  

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On 9/1/2020 at 9:26 AM, Wolfking007 said:

Who is the perfumed senechal from Quaithes warning? Does anyone know? 

Reznak Mo Reznak

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On 8/24/2020 at 5:46 PM, Anck Su Namun said:

The Prince that was promised had to come from Targaryen parents.  I.e. Targaryen on both sides.  Rhaegar fathering Daenerys on Rhaella meets that criteria.  However, there is more evidence to support King Aerys as the father.  The Prince that was promised, to be a true prince/princess, must not be a bastard.  Otherwise, they would not be a princess or a prince.  I believe Aerys is the father and Rhaella the mother.  This gifted child must be born from a marriage.  Rhaella and Aerys could not divorce and the door is closed to the possibility of a second marriage for either of them. 

The parents both have to have the recessive gene for bonding with dragons as well as the more rare ability to recall them back from extinction.  Science and magic do not concern themselves with the laws of men.  Marriage is not essential but only for both mother and father to be Targaryen.  Targaryen + Targaryen = Azor Ahai

On 8/24/2020 at 5:46 PM, Anck Su Namun said:

I am not saying there won't be charlatans and grifters making claims to the throne.  George has already said a few more will sit on the throne.  There will be grifters who will get to enjoy the seat of power.  Until they get roasted by the dragons whose fire built that throne.  Drogon is the reincarnation of the great Balerion.  I expect Cersei, Jaime, Faegon, and maybe Jon to temporarily put their butts on the throne.  Jon as the Ice King.  Daenerys and her dragons will come and take back the throne from those charlatans.  The last charlatan to sit before her arrival will be the third treason and the third execution by fire. 

 

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11 hours ago, Only 89 selfies today said:

Some would say its the boat but it is Reznak. 

The boat is the reason I asked. I thought it might be the boat, cause Reznak seemed obvious suspect

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On 9/3/2020 at 7:22 PM, Rondo said:

The parents both have to have the recessive gene for bonding with dragons as well as the more rare ability to recall them back from extinction.  Science and magic do not concern themselves with the laws of men.  Marriage is not essential but only for both mother and father to be Targaryen.  Targaryen + Targaryen = Azor Ahai

 

Azor Ahai cannot be Targaryen Lite.  They were trying to bring about the return of the dragons and this elusive gene is needed.  Targaryen grandparents and parents refined the genetics to allow for this special ability to surface.  

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On 8/26/2020 at 8:54 PM, The Green Bard said:

Interesting concept.  While I agree that there is time for whatever the author wishes to do, I don't get the idea that he intends Jaime to seek the throne.  Since he met Brienne and since Tyrion told him of Cersei's infidelity, I don't see him making any attempts to amass power.  

He is not changing for the better.  He sat on the throne after he murdered his own king.  Jaime is still the same bad man.

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2 hours ago, bluntt said:

from the looks of the few comments i skimmed it seems nobody has read this essay:
https://thelasthearth.freeforums.net/thread/572/dany

A bit thinfoilish but still if someone is into alternative theories its worth a read.
P.s(No there is no mother and son incest lol and Daenerys is still Targaryen but not the one she thinks).

It was actually the theory I was asking about in the OP, someone brought it up a few pages later, thanks tho!

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13 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

It was actually the theory I was asking about in the OP, someone brought it up a few pages later, thanks tho!

I enjoyed the read and found it not that thin-foilish. Of course you need to ignore any TV show related stuff and be willing to explore alternative explanations.

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49 minutes ago, bluntt said:

I enjoyed the read and found it not that thin-foilish. Of course you need to ignore any TV show related stuff and be willing to explore alternative explanations.

I'm honestly not that convinced by R+L=J, but I think that particular theory (fdany) while well reaserched has some moments in which the author goes on wild tangent that make it less believable, but they do manage to point some pretty significant wholes in Danny's story.

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3 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

I'm honestly not that convinced by R+L=J, but I think that particular theory (fdany) while well reaserched has some moments in which the author goes on wild tangent that make it less believable, but they do manage to point some pretty significant wholes in Danny's story.

Do you by any chance have idea if that letter to GRRM where he is asked about Dany's past is legit?

“Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn’t really grow in Braavos’s cold, foggy climate. Is this discrepancy significant? Does it point to future revelations about Dany’s past?”

“Very perceptive of you. Yes, it does point to… well, that would be telling.”

 

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32 minutes ago, bluntt said:

Do you by any chance have idea if that letter to GRRM where he is asked about Dany's past is legit?

“Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn’t really grow in Braavos’s cold, foggy climate. Is this discrepancy significant? Does it point to future revelations about Dany’s past?”

“Very perceptive of you. Yes, it does point to… well, that would be telling.”

 

Yep, it's been mentioned in this thread a lot, some users claim it points to the marriage pact, I disagree, I think given all the things that are off about Dany's past and more specifically the lemon tree, it means she grew up somewhere else. Specially given how many times the story mentions lemons not growing that far up north.

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1 minute ago, CamiloRP said:

Yep, it's been mentioned in this thread a lot, some users claim it points to the marriage pact, I disagree, I think given all the things that are off about Dany's past and more specifically the lemon tree, it means she grew up somewhere else. Specially given how many times the story mentions lemons not growing that far up north.

Yeah im thinking the same, however my question was if the letter to GRRM and his answer are real, or someone is just photoshopping etc

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21 minutes ago, bluntt said:

Yeah im thinking the same, however my question was if the letter to GRRM and his answer are real, or someone is just photoshopping etc

Ohh, as far as I know, it's real. It's in the SSM search engine and I never heard anyone questioning it's veracity, even people who don't believe in lemongate.

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51 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Ohh, as far as I know, it's real. It's in the SSM search engine and I never heard anyone questioning it's veracity, even people who don't believe in lemongate.

I think it is legit but I never found the date of it. I wonder if he said it after Feast and dance came out 

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Warning - this is a theory/hypothesis/ my assumptions, not facts.

The Perfumed Seneschal is Septa Lemore, whose real name is Jeyne Swann. She is fAegon's mother.

There was motherXson incest in the series - Serenei of Lys and Larra Rogare is the same person, thus Shiera Seastar is a product of incest between a child and a parent.

Current Starks are skinchangers not because they are Starks, but because they have Aegon the Unworthy's genes on both sides (and thru him Larra Rogare's and Johanna Swann's (Larra's mother) genes), their mother's and their father's.

Cregan Stark's daughter, Maryah Stark, was Melissa Blackwood's mother. Melissa's daughter, Mya Rivers (Aegon the Unworthy's daughter and Bloodraven's sister), was Melantha Blackwood's mother. Melantha married with Willam Stark (they were Rickard's grandparents, and Ned's and Lyanna's great grandparents). Thru Melantha Blackwood both Ned and Lyanna were carrier of genes that they inherited from Aegon IV/Larra Rogare/Johanna Swann. Swanns are carriers of skinchanging genes, same as members of House Crane, who are descendants of Garth Greenhand.

For a child to be born with a skinchanging abilities both parent have to be carriers of a skinchanging gene. Even though those parents them selves are not skinchangers, their children are. It's the same case as with red-hair genes. Those genes are recessive, and for a child to be born a red-head both parents have to be carriers of this gene. Either of those parents could be not a red-head himself/herself, but their child will be.

Jon is a skinchanger because Rhaegar was descendant of Aegon/Larra/Johanna and Lyanna also was their descendant thru Melantha Blackwood (King Aegon's granddaughter).

Robb, Sansa, Bran, Arya and Rickon are skinchangers because their father Ned is a carrier of a skinchanging gene, same as Lyanna, and Catelyn Tully is also a carrier of that gene, because she is also King Aegon's descendant. Catelyn's mother, Minisa Whent, is a descendant of the first Lord Whent of Harrenhal, who at the beginning of his life was knows as the Bastard of Harrenhal. This guy is a secret son of Aegon IV and Aegon's secret daughter (and also his mistress) - Jeyne Lothston. Ned and Catelyn, Rhaegar and Lyanna were carriers of recessive skinchanging genes, their children got two complects of those genes from both of their parents, and thus they were born with an ability to skinchange.

Rhaegar's wife, Elia Martell, was great granddaughter of Daenerys Targaryen and Maron Martell, so Aegon IV was her great great grandfather. And thus Elia also was a carrier of a recessive skinchanging gene. Little princess Rhaenys got those genes from both of her parents, and thus she was a skinchanger. Specifically she was a cat-skinchanger, same as Arya, Larra Rogare, Johanna Swann, and Shiera Seastar. Johanna Swann skinchanged into a panther that killed Matteno Orthys (a character mentioned in F&B). Shiera Seastar skinchanged into a shadow-cat that attacked Mance Rayder, which caused a chain of events in result of which Mance deserted from Night's Watch (the wildling healer that was treating Mance from his injuries, also was Shiera, in shadow-glamour). Princess Rhaenys, prior she was killed, skinchaged into her black kitten. The black cat that Arya was barely able to catch at the Red Keep is a carrier of Rhaenys' soul. Arya was able to catch that cat, because she is also a cat-skinchanger, same as Rhaenys was.

It's likely that Dany's son, Rhaego, (who is totally alive) is also a skinchanger. Rhaego's hair is silver-gold, and his eyes are purple (or violet?), even though his father is a Dothraki. That's because it's likely that one of Drogo's ancestors was a descendant of Aegon IV, it was either one of Otheryses (descendants of the Black Pearl) or one of Plumms (same as Brown Ben Plumm, one of Ben's ancestors was Aegon's son, Viserys Plumm, and one of his other ancestors is a Dothraki, and there was also a Summer Islander, could be that this Summer Islander was also one of Otheryses/Aegon IV's descendants. It's likely that Ben's Dothraki ancestor is also Khal Drogo's ancestor, and this person on one of his/her parents' side was a descendant of Bellegere Otherys' child/children, fathered by Aegon). When Dany saw Drogo for the first time, she noted -> "Khal Drogo was a head taller than the tallest man in the room, yet somehow light on his feet, as graceful as the panther in Illyrio’s menagerie." <- this could be a clue that Drogo also was a carrier of skinchanging genes, same as his ancestors - Aegon IV, Larra Rogare, Johanna Swann.

Catelyn's name is also a clue, because usually this name is written as Katelyn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin

Amongst all notable people with the variation of this name, there only one "Cat" - Catelynn Lowell, all others are either Caitlins or Kates/Keites. Though if GRRM would have used Caitlin or Katelyn instead of Catelyn, then there would have been no word "cat" as part of her name. Cat, a carrier of a skinchanging genes that passed them to her children, who were born with a skinchanging abilities. In case with her daughter Arya, it's an ability to skinchange into cats, in addition to her ability to warg into direwolves.

Dany is not a skinchanger, because from both of her parents she received only one set of skinchanging genes, and to have a skinchanging abilities, she should have inherited those genes from two separate lines, like Jon from Lyanna and Rhaegar, Bran from Ned and Catelyn, etc.

Amongst historical Starks there was no skinchangers. Because this ability has nothing to do with being a Stark.

It's highly likely that Bloodraven is not a skinchanger. I think that he received skinchanging ability only after he went beyond The Wall, and in the Children's cave was physically connected to the Weirwood Network. If Bloodraven was able to skinchange prior he bacame a part of the Network, then there would have been no need for him to have human spies, while he was serving as a Hand of the King and the Master of Whisperers. If he was always able to skinchange into ravens, as he is able to do now, then there would have been no need for him to personally go to Whitewalls. Instead he could have sent there one or several of his birds, and he would have been able to see and hear everything thru them. His presense at Whitewalls (in a guise of Maynard Plumm) is an evidence that Bloodraven is not a skinchanger (was not a skinchanger since birth, like Jon, Arya, etc.). This is also an evidence that Dany is not Rhaegar's and Queen Rhaella's child. If she was, then she would have been a skinchanger, same as Shiera Seastar, whose parents were Aegon and Aegon's mother - Larra/Serenei. Rhaegar was not a skinchanger himself, though he was a carrier of one set of skinchanging genes, same as Aegon. Rhaegar's mother also was a carrier, and Aegon's mother was both a carrier (of two sets of genes) and a skinchanger. Shiera Seastar received one set of genes from both of her parents, one from Larra/Serenei and one from Aegon. If Dany was a child of Rhaegar and Queen Rhaella, then she would have gotten one set from Rhaegar and one set from Rhaella, and thus she would have been a skinchanger. But she isn't. And this is an evidence that Rhaegar is not Dany's father, not and CAN'T be. 

It's likely that the Bastard of Harrenhal /

Manfryd of the Black Hood (he was always wearing a black hood under which he was hiding his Targaryen silver-gold hair/  Manfryd Lothston (similarly to what Ned Stark did for his sister Lyanna and her son Jon, Lucas Lothston presented Jeyne's child, Manfryd, as supposedly his own bastard, supposedly born by some unnamed woman. After the First Blackfyre Rebellion Manfryd was legitimized by King Daeron as a Lothston, for his betrayal of Blackfyres. Partially this information was mentioned in Dunk&Egg novels)

secret son of Aegon IV and Aegon's daughter, Jeyne Lothston, also was a skinchanger.

He got one set of genes from his mother and the other from his father. He was skinchanging into bats that populated Harrenhal. Danelle Lothston the Lady of Harrenhal was Lucas Lothston's heir and successor. Even though Manfryd became legitimized as a Lothston, still he didn't got Harrenhal, instead it got inherited by Danelle, who was either Lucas' real child (unlike Jeyne and Manfryd) or his niece, or grandniece, or some other relative. Manfryd founded House Whent, was serving to Danelle and Lothstons as their house knight, and then used his skinchanging abilities to frame Danelle and accused her in witchcraft. After the downfall of House Lothston, Manfryd and his children got Harrenhal, and Catelyn's mother, Minisa Whent, is one of his descendants.

The Bastard's other descendant is Petyr Baelish. Before Manfryd reinvented himself as a Whent, somewhere in span between the First Blackfyre Rebellion and the downfall of Lothstons, he went to Braavos to establish connection with other unacknowledged bastards of Aegon the Unworthy - with the children of Bellegere Otherys. While he was in Braavos, he fathered a child with one of Otherys-girls, probably with a daughter of Bellenora, Narha or Balerion. This child is the sellsword from Braavos, who was Littlefinger's great grandfather. When he went to live at Westeros, he was hired by House Corbray. It's likely that Blackfyres, and their cousins Otheryses, asked/influenced Corbrays to hire him, because Corbrays were indebted to Blackfyres. During the Battle at the Redgrass Field, Daemon I Blackfyre spared and saved Gweyne Corbray's life.

Thru the Bastard of Harrenhal Petyr Baelish is also a carrier of one set of skinchanging genes.

Tyrion noted that Petyr has cat-like eyes (ACOK, Tyrion IV) -> "“So,” Lord Petyr continued after a pause, utterly unabashed, “what’s in your pot for me?” “Harrenhal.”

It was interesting to watch his face. Lord Petyr’s father had been the smallest of small lords, his grandfather a landless hedge knight; by birth, he held no more than a few stony acres on the windswept shore of the Fingers. Harrenhal was one of the richest plums in the Seven Kingdoms, its lands broad and rich and fertile, its great castle as formidable as any in the realm . . . and so large as to dwarf Riverrun, where Petyr Baelish had been fostered by House Tully, only to be brusquely expelled when he dared raise his sights to Lord Hoster’s daughter.

Littlefinger took a moment to adjust the drape of his cape, but Tyrion had seen the flash of hunger in those sly cat’s eyes. I have him, he knew. “Harrenhal is cursed,” Lord Petyr said after a moment, trying to sound bored."

Lysa Tully/Arryn is also a carrier of a skinchanging gene, also thru the Bastard of Harrenhal, same as Catelyn and Petyr.

There's a very high probability that if Robert Arryn is actually Littlefinger's son, then he is also a skinchanger. If later in the books it will be revealed that Robert Arryn is a skinchanger, then it will be an evidence that my theory (everything that I wrote in this post) is absolutely correct. He will skinchange into a mockingbird or a robin-bird, possibly when he will be close to dying, same as little Rhaenys did.

P.S. Just because some people won't be able to comprehend what I wrote, doesn't mean that my hypothesis is wrong.

Edited by Megorova

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6 hours ago, bluntt said:

I enjoyed the read and found it not that thin-foilish. Of course you need to ignore any TV show related stuff and be willing to explore alternative explanations.

You find it plausible that there are actually two Willem Darry's? 

  1. The real one Viserys knew, who signed the secret marriage pact with Oberyn Martell
  2. The fake one "Daenerys" knew in the House With The Red Door

And conveniently, the real and fake Willem Darry's are both dead?

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