The Trouble With Peace by Joe Abercrombie [SPOILER THREAD]

[Zorral]

Up to page 187.  This book sure is ... talky.  Everybody talks.  All the time.  At length.  Even Sticks.  Nobody's an interesting talker either. 

This doesn't feel as interesting and fresh as the previous book did. 

 

[Maithanet]

14 hours ago, Zorral said:

Up to page 187.  This book sure is ... talky.  Everybody talks.  All the time.  At length.  Even Sticks.  Nobody's an interesting talker either. 

This doesn't feel as interesting and fresh as the previous book did.

The book starts slow, for sure.  It gets better. 

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

The book starts slow, for sure.  It gets better. 

Thanks.  I got to p. 211 last night, and it did seem to be improving.  It's way over front loaded with characters though, thus all the TALKING. 

Spoiler

I didn't find that fight Rikke provoked all that useful or interesting. Again more talking than happening.

 

[Galactus]

They did seem to be

Heavily hinting that Glokta is at least somewhat backing the revolutionaries, him keeping on aboutb having to burn the Union down to improve it, and the guy he keeps pointing out as his most loyal guy being The Weaver seems to point that way, but who knows?

[Galactus]

On 10/25/2020 at 6:01 PM, Consigliere said:

So, does anyone know if Abercrombie plans to continue writing stories set in TFL world? I hope he does but I also hope that if he does do further standalones, that none are set in the North. I've had my fill of the North to the point that characters and conflicts are beginning to blur together. The setting has become stale too. Future standalones should be set in Gurkhul/Kanta (the Kantic continent has largely been ignored in Abercrombie's world building), the Old Empire (some interesting happenings there with Zacharus and Cawneil) and Styria again (Jappo POV, please!).

The North annoys me in that it's so weird timeline-wise. (and it just continues the unfortunate trend of reducing Scandinavia to vikings and nothing else) 

[Galactus]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:02 AM, Corvinus85 said:

I remembered that, which is why I phrased that way. Why wouldn't the Inquisition keep an eye them, knowing the tensions in the Open Council?

They did keep an eye on them, hence why they managed to nab some of them.

 

It doesen't come up much but the Inquisition is A) overstretched and  

Has a high ranking mole

 

[mormont]

Finished this a couple of days ago. I'm a little perplexed by how many have a negative or at least equivocal reaction to Broad as a POV: I liked his chapters. I realise they don't have much in the way of bon mots or wry observations, and Abercrombie has certainly done this archetype before, but I like to see Broad's honesty about his motives, and I like having a character who is a minor player and knows it. The working class POV is essential. I think he works a bit better with his family around, and I think that links to the reason that he's a bit different from Logen. Broad strikes me much more as the person who's been changed by war, who was seduced by violence rather than always being the avatar of it. His family remind him of the man he used to be and wants to be again: Broad's story is about trying to regain his innocence, and finding that you can't. Logen was always a bastard, and wants to become someone new. (I guess you can say that Red Country Logen is more like Broad?)

In that way, Broad has something in common with Orso - the story so far has been of Orso losing his innocence, too. He begins the story believing that he has become jaded, but actually, Orso is naive about the realities of power: Valbeck and the rebellion open his eyes. I don't doubt he's in for further awakenings.

[Ninefingers]

7 hours ago, mormont said:

Finished this a couple of days ago. I'm a little perplexed by how many have a negative or at least equivocal reaction to Broad as a POV: I liked his chapters. I realise they don't have much in the way of bon mots or wry observations, and Abercrombie has certainly done this archetype before, but I like to see Broad's honesty about his motives, and I like having a character who is a minor player and knows it. The working class POV is essential. I think he works a bit better with his family around, and I think that links to the reason that he's a bit different from Logen. Broad strikes me much more as the person who's been changed by war, who was seduced by violence rather than always being the avatar of it. His family remind him of the man he used to be and wants to be again: Broad's story is about trying to regain his innocence, and finding that you can't. Logen was always a bastard, and wants to become someone new. (I guess you can say that Red Country Logen is more like Broad?)

In that way, Broad has something in common with Orso - the story so far has been of Orso losing his innocence, too. He begins the story believing that he has become jaded, but actually, Orso is naive about the realities of power: Valbeck and the rebellion open his eyes. I don't doubt he's in for further awakenings.

I'd say (a) it feels like a pretty narrow distinction you're making, and (b) we've seen it all before with Logen and Shivers. And it doesn't help that "just when I thought I was out they pull me back in" is a pretty well worn trope. 

All that said, Abercrombie does that trope well. So put me in the camp of not disliking Broad, but not being wow'd by what the character brings to the table.

[Maithanet]

1 hour ago, Ninefingers said:

I'd say (a) it feels like a pretty narrow distinction you're making, and (b) we've seen it all before with Logen and Shivers. And it doesn't help that "just when I thought I was out they pull me back in" is a pretty well worn trope.

But going further, we've seen something similar in Logen and Shivers, but those characters were also more funny and interesting.  Broad has never done anything that surprised me. 

[Zorral]

Broad and his family have been the elements I actively liked in these two books (so far).  It's fairly top heavy with aristos and richies, who one and all are characters of undiluted ugly and dullsome <stet>; Broad and his family help with that to a degree.  

[Caligula_K3]

I do think Broad is a very important character to have in the book; a story about class conflict can't really work if all of our main characters are among the elite. There's a 100-150 page period in the book where he drops out, and the class-conflict storylines suffer as a result. But on the other hand, he is definitely the weakest of the main characters so far, and does feel like a lesser version of some of Joe's past characters. I hope he picks up in Book 3.

[Zorral]

I'm just anxious about

Spoiler

the baby Savine's carrying, not only because Rikki predicts something, well, ya. something about what it will do (while not disclosing sex / gender) -- with all the drugs Savine is putting up her nose.  This cannot bode well for the future.

 

[Darzin]

I've seen the idea that Bayaz is the Weaver floated both here and on reddit and I really don't think so. The first thing the breakers did was burn the bank.  With the new blurb we see they may have burned all the banks. That's not something Bayaz would evert countenence as Valint and Balk is the source of his power.

[mormont]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:24 AM, Darzin said:

I've seen the idea that Bayaz is the Weaver floated both here and on reddit and I really don't think so. The first thing the breakers did was burn the bank.  With the new blurb we see they may have burned all the banks. That's not something Bayaz would evert countenence as Valint and Balk is the source of his power.

It's not inconceivable that Bayaz would sacrifice Valint and Balk if for some reason it served him to do so. The difficulty is seeing how that could be true.

[Maithanet]

On 11/8/2020 at 2:29 PM, mormont said:

It's not inconceivable that Bayaz would sacrifice Valint and Balk if for some reason it served him to do so. The difficulty is seeing how that could be true.

Very hard for me to connect those dots.  I think if you're looking for a suprise Weaver reveal in book 3, it would have to be one of the other Magi like Khalul or Zacharias.  I floated the Zacharias=Weaver theory after book 1, but unfortunately there wasn't much that I saw to support it in TTWP. 

[Rhom]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Very hard for me to connect those dots.  I think if you're looking for a suprise Weaver reveal in book 3, it would have to be one of the other Magi like Khalul or Zacharias.  I floated the Zacharias=Weaver theory after book 1, but unfortunately there wasn't much that I saw to support it in TTWP. 

Sadly, there's very little to tie any of the magi into the current conflicts.   

[Maithanet]

34 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Sadly, there's very little to tie any of the magi into the current conflicts.   

They have the means and a motive, which is something.  But there isn't really any indication I can see that they are up to much of anything in the Union right now.  

[The hairy bear]

If the Weaver is a magi, I'm convinced it would be Khalul. My Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory on this matter would go something like this:

After his Thousand Words are destroyed and his armies shattered, Khalul realizes that he can't defeat Bayaz fighting in the open and with the traditional weapons. So he fakes his own death and lets the Empire fall, while he focuses in destroying Bayaz's grasp over the Union from the inside.

He finds an ally in Glokta, who wants to free the Union from Bayaz. He is ready to assume the risk himself, but is worried about the well-being of his adopted daughter, and demands that Khalul ensures her safety. For this reason, Khalul assigns East Wind/Ishri/Zuri to protect Savine. Glokta being on board with him would explain why the Inquisition has not only made a terrible job at exposing the Breakers/Burners, but also is the main root of rebel leadership  (Pyke, Risinau, and all the practicals in Valbeck).

Khalul could easily be bald, and can certainly be rich enough as to be described as having a bottomless purse. Him being the original Weaver would explain why no one commented on his unusual looks (as would be the case with Pyke). And his disappearance could be explained by the huge influx of Kantic immigrants to the Midderland (he could no longer be seen in the open, or someone would recognize him as the Prophet).

Also, the fact that the Burners identify V&B as one of their primary targets (both when they take Valbeck and when they assault the convoy) suggests that it's ultimate leader knows the importance of the bank and/or has a personal vendetta against Bayaz. I doubt Pyke would fit that profile.

[SeanF]

2 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

If the Weaver is a magi, I'm convinced it would be Khalul. My Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory on this matter would go something like this:

After his thousand words are destroyed and his armies shattered, Ghurkul realizes that he can't defeat Bayaz fighting in the open with the traditional weapons. So he fakes his own death and lets the Empire fall, while he focuses in destroying this grasp over the Union from the inside.

He finds an ally in Glokta, who wants to free the Union from Bayaz. He is ready to assume the risk himself, but is worried about the well-being of his adopted daughter, and demands that Khalul ensures her safety. For this reason, Khalul assigns East Wind/Ishri/Zuri to protect Savine. Glokta being on board with him would explain why the Inquisition has not only made a terrible job at exposing the Breakers/Burners, but also is the main root of rebel leadership  (Pyke, Risinau, and all the practicals in Valbeck).

Khalul could easily be bald, and can certainly be rich enough as to be described as having a bottomless purse. Him being the original Weaver would explain why no one commented on his unusual looks (as would be the case with Pyke). And his disappearance could explained by the huge influx of Kantic immigrants to the Midderland (he could no longer be seen in the open, or someone would recognize him as the Prophet).

Also, the fact that the Burners identify V&B as one of their primary targets (both when they take Valbeck and when they assault the convoy) suggests that it's ultimate leader knows the importance of the bank and/or has a personal vendetta against Bayaz. I doubt Pyke would fit that profile.

Very well-argued.

[Caligula_K3]

1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

If the Weaver is a magi, I'm convinced it would be Khalul. My Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory on this matter would go something like this:

After his Thousand Words are destroyed and his armies shattered, Khalul realizes that he can't defeat Bayaz fighting in the open and with the traditional weapons. So he fakes his own death and lets the Empire fall, while he focuses in destroying Bayaz's grasp over the Union from the inside.

He finds an ally in Glokta, who wants to free the Union from Bayaz. He is ready to assume the risk himself, but is worried about the well-being of his adopted daughter, and demands that Khalul ensures her safety. For this reason, Khalul assigns East Wind/Ishri/Zuri to protect Savine. Glokta being on board with him would explain why the Inquisition has not only made a terrible job at exposing the Breakers/Burners, but also is the main root of rebel leadership  (Pyke, Risinau, and all the practicals in Valbeck).

Khalul could easily be bald, and can certainly be rich enough as to be described as having a bottomless purse. Him being the original Weaver would explain why no one commented on his unusual looks (as would be the case with Pyke). And his disappearance could be explained by the huge influx of Kantic immigrants to the Midderland (he could no longer be seen in the open, or someone would recognize him as the Prophet).

Also, the fact that the Burners identify V&B as one of their primary targets (both when they take Valbeck and when they assault the convoy) suggests that it's ultimate leader knows the importance of the bank and/or has a personal vendetta against Bayaz. I doubt Pyke would fit that profile.

I really like this theory, which would tie everything together very nicely. I do hope at least that Glokta has much more of a role in all this in book 3, but it would be nice to bring back Khalul too.