NBA Playoffs 2020: Mamba Out

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

But outside of the top few minds in the game, most are rather interchangeable. 

A coaches impact on his team's success is inherently marginal - in any sport - talent and execution is what matters.  But saying ~90% of the NBA's head coaches are "interchangeable" simply isn't true.

[Tywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

A coaches impact on his team's success is inherently marginal - in any sport - talent and execution is what matters.  But saying ~90% of the NBA's head coaches are "interchangeable" simply isn't true.

And it matters the least in basketball outside of a few outliers. I wouldn't say 90% are interchangeable, but most coaches are. 

[DMC]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

And it matters the least in basketball outside of a few outliers. I wouldn't say 90% are interchangeable, but most coaches are. 

I agree coaching, particularly in terms of Xs and Os, is considerably less important in basketball than it is definitely in football and in baseball as well (albeit baseball's reliance on analytics these days is narrowing that gap).  However, this is still a gross overstatement.  Horrible coaches can still fuck a good team over.  And good - but not great - coaches can considerably improve a team compared to a bad coach.  It's not simply two levels of 3-4 geniuses then everyone else.

[Tywin et al.]

7 hours ago, DMC said:

I agree coaching, particularly in terms of Xs and Os, is considerably less important in basketball than it is definitely in football and in baseball as well (albeit baseball's reliance on analytics these days is narrowing that gap).  However, this is still a gross overstatement.  Horrible coaches can still fuck a good team over.  And good - but not great - coaches can considerably improve a team compared to a bad coach.  It's not simply two levels of 3-4 geniuses then everyone else.

The Cavs still got to the Finals with David Blatt as their coach.  But to your last point, I do think there are 3-5 really good coaches, a handful more that are good, but the majority of coaches simply don't matter at all. 

[Slurktan]

I used to agree that coaching doesn't really matter and to an extent I still kind of do.  However I've seen the difference between a bad x's and o's coach and a great one in Toronto, and it is night and day.  If you have a great coach they absolutely matter.  But for most they don't.

[Calibandar]

On 11/24/2020 at 4:10 AM, Tywin et al. said:

The Lakers should be the favorites. I thought the Lakers and Clippers were pretty even last year and it seems pretty clear to me that the Lakers have gotten better while the Clippers are probably in the same place. Denver may be the second best team if the growth we saw from them in the bubble is real. And the Blazers should also be an improved team, both because of move they made and because they'll be healthy. Dallas is the real dark horse, but they'll need to prove they can stay healthy. The Pelicans could also be surprisingly good, but they're still too young to be a contender. I'm not sure anyone else will matter much big picture, but there are a lot of fun looking teams.

The East is as open as ever. The Bucks got better, but is it actually enough? Brooklyn remains the biggest mystery box in the league with Durant's health still an unknown. Miami was a fun team and story, but they probably won represent the East again this year. Boston is a mess, but they're still really talented. And the Sixers should be better, but they may still be a second tier team.

The nice part about the upcoming season is there are a lot of teams you can talk yourself into being real contenders, and a lot of the bad teams at least look like they will at least be entertaining. 

Definitely agree with that last part. There is almost no boring teams anymore.

Ok you still got the Knicks who have very little talent and did nothing this offseason to boot, they look to be in full on tank mode for Cunningham or Jalen Green next year. The Cavs, pretty bad roster. Detroit also not great but better than last season.  Charlotte got more interesting. OKC has a really bad roster now and thats not going to be much fun.

But in the East, Indiana is an interesting team, basically the same side as last year but Oladipo should be fit now and Sabonis missed the bubble and was their best player prior to that. Atlanta got much better and has great depth now too. Apparently Gallinari was signed as the backup for John Collins, surprised me. The Wizards are back with Beal and either Wall or Westbrook, if that trade happens, plus some other nice players. The Nets, I find it really hard to comment on them until the trade is either done, or we hear it doesnt happen. Its a great looking team right now  but obviously better still if they can trade a few guys for Harden. There is talk of how Harden would be a good fit with Embiid or Simmons but either one of those would have to be traded and then I dont see a championship team there in Philly anymore.

The Bucks have to be hoping that one of their guards really pans out, be that DiVicenzo, Connaughton, Forbes or the just signed Nik Stauskas. Think Miami has a better chance coming out of the East again than Sixers, Celtics, Raptors.

In the West, Suns and Pelicans look like a strong young teams and I am keeping my eye on this interesting new T-Wolves team.

The Kings could be pretty good too, the question is, will they finally get a good season out of Bagley.

[DMC]

15 hours ago, Calibandar said:

they look to be in full on tank mode for Cunningham or Jalen Green next year.

Gotta admit, since the draft I've spend an inordinate amount of time reading up on/watching film of - and subsequently drooling over - next year's draft class.  Cunningham seems to be the prohibitive top prospect right now, and as long as he doesn't completely suck or get injured it'll stay that way.  Seems like Brandon Boston and Evan Mobley are in the conversation along with Green for the number two spot - although I definitely prefer Green as well. 

Anyway, there's a lot to like with the top 10, even 15 prospects.  There's three Jalens that all look really good to great!  Really want the Magic to tank now, even though it definitely doesn't look like it's happening.  Surely they could jettison Fournier in his last year, and somebody would give something up to get Gordon, right?  RIGHT?!?

[DireWolfSpirit]

Meadowlark and Curly

 

[Wilbur]

On 11/28/2020 at 12:36 AM, DireWolfSpirit said:

Meadowlark and Curly

 

That is outstanding.  The 1970s were a simpler time, and the circus, the Globetrotters, and the Memorial Day Parade were big attractions.

My dad took me to see the 'Trotters every time they came to town from such an early age that my earliest basketball memories include thinking that this was the way basketball should be played.  When we went to see the USA Basketball team coached by Joe B. Hall in 78 or 79, I was disappointed when they didn't engage in this sort of shenanigans, and I didn't understand why my dad was so excited about Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

[Relic]

On 11/28/2020 at 5:00 PM, Wilbur said:

That is outstanding.  The 1970s were a simpler time, and the circus, the Globetrotters, and the Memorial Day Parade were big attractions.

 

So sad that the first thing i think when seeing corwd shots is "why arent they wearing masks?". UGH

[Argonath Diver]

On 11/28/2020 at 10:00 AM, Wilbur said:

That is outstanding.  The 1970s were a simpler time, and the circus, the Globetrotters, and the Memorial Day Parade were big attractions.

My dad took me to see the 'Trotters every time they came to town from such an early age that my earliest basketball memories include thinking that this was the way basketball should be played.  When we went to see the USA Basketball team coached by Joe B. Hall in 78 or 79, I was disappointed when they didn't engage in this sort of shenanigans, and I didn't understand why my dad was so excited about Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

I loved basketball when I was a kid, despite my parents not being interested in sports. My dad was a champ, though, and took me to a Globetrotters game in St Louis when I was, oh, 8-ish.  I was one of the lucky kids they brought out to the court for some of said shenanigans. Sweet Lou Dunbar dribbled around me as I gleefully failed at stealing the ball. They had a bucket of water that they 'dunked' on me, only it was confetti. I don't remember much of it after all these years, but Dad happily brings up that night any time I tease he and mom for not being a sports junkie the way I turned out to be.

[Maithanet]

11 minutes ago, Relic said:

So sad that the first thing i think when seeing corwd shots is "why arent they wearing masks?". UGH

Of course, 1970 was as close to the last pandemic as it was the current one. 

[Wilbur]

5 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

...I was one of the lucky kids they brought out to the court for some of said shenanigans. Sweet Lou Dunbar dribbled around me as I gleefully failed at stealing the ball. They had a bucket of water that they 'dunked' on me, only it was confetti...

Damn, you lived the dream!

[Argonath Diver]

2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

Damn, you lived the dream!

Alas I have no real memory of it. The haze of childhood memories is thick. I know it happened through my family stories, and I do have the vaguest memory of the setting - the arena is long demolished, but I recall the feeling of being swept down from the stands and being confused and scared and excited. I only know it was Sweet Lou - the only name I know of the Globetrotters - from my more concrete memories of high school, when I recognized him from probably an ESPN broadcast. 

In 2020, every moment of a child's life seems to be catalogued digitally, but in the 80s, my parents did not bring a Polaroid camera to the old St Louis Arena. Damn.

[Slurktan]

10 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

Alas I have no real memory of it. The haze of childhood memories is thick. I know it happened through my family stories, and I do have the vaguest memory of the setting - the arena is long demolished, but I recall the feeling of being swept down from the stands and being confused and scared and excited. I only know it was Sweet Lou - the only name I know of the Globetrotters - from my more concrete memories of high school, when I recognized him from probably an ESPN broadcast. 

In 2020, every moment of a child's life seems to be catalogued digitally, but in the 80s, my parents did not bring a Polaroid camera to the old St Louis Arena. Damn.

So weird, not NBA but I have similar "memories" of going to Oilers games in the 80's (my Dad had season tickets) but no real recollection of events therein.  Then by pure happenstance a game was on TV last week that I went to as a kid and so watched (and on one commercial break me and my Mom are visible in the stands hilariously) and I just remembered a few things from the game while watching before they happened on screen.  Just weird.

[Tywin et al.]

@Maithanet, @Jaime L, thoughts on Wall just being traded for Westbrook? You also have to give up a first rounder, but I'm not seeing the year and how protected it is. 

[DMC]

Well, this guy gives the year at least:

 

[Tywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, this guy gives the year at least:

 

2023 makes me think they will resist trading Beal this year unless it's a disaster early on. Houston, OTOH, basically has to trade Harden now. He and Wall seem like a terrible fit and that's assuming Wall is anything resembling his former self. 

[DMC]

Here's the protections...

That's...not much.  Pretty good deal for the Wizards considering the contracts are a wash.  Westbrook and Beal complement each other well.

[Maithanet]

I have always enjoyed watching Westbrook. He plays with an intensity that all professional athletes should aspire to.  He's totally reliant on elite athleticism, which is fading, but I'm still looking forward to seeing the wizards this year.  Probably going to be a 5-6 seed in the east if Westbrook and break stay healthy, but that is fun enough.