Covid-19 #19 Tsunami Wave

[felice]

16 hours ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Oh they're much, much worse now. 

The official numbers, yes, but the real numbers would have been far, far higher than the official ones back in April. Just look at the death rate graph.

[DireWolfSpirit]

The death case chart reads like a W but daily deaths are now even higher than the huge spring spike.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[Zorral]

Why, alas, we can't keep dealing with the pandemic politics free.

"FARGO — Personal responsibility and the light touch of government died Friday after a courageous eight-month battle against medical science.

The cause of death was a statewide mask mandate issued in North Dakota with the hope of containing a global pandemic."

https://www.inforum.com/opinion/6762909-McFeely-RIP-personal-responsibility-and-the-light-touch-of-government

Quote

 

The death announcement was made by Burgum's office late at night via press release and a social media video, which precluded the governor taking questions from the media that might have included, "Why did you wait so long?" and "Did you purposely wait until after an election you were sure to win in a landslide to announce this?"

The governor, who is rumored to have presidential aspirations, valiantly fought facts and logic for months in an attempt to keep his banalities alive for the sake of burnishing his Trumpian credentials, but in the end his talking points succumbed as more and more human beings who lived in his state did the same.

South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem, also eyeing a 2024 run for president, declined comment on the death of Burgum's inanities, but immediately boarded a plane to New Hampshire to attend a fundraiser....

 

Wishing the gub and ND all the best in enforcing their mask mandate but have no faith they will.  In the meantime Minnesota local and state governments are discussing banning NoDaks from crossing the borders and coming into MN. Which would mean that since one generally has to go across the Red River, this could be fairly enforced around the restaurant and bar rich towns, which would mean further, that once a MN resident crossed, could not return.

[A True Kaniggit]

2 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Why, alas, we can't keep dealing with the pandemic politics free.

"FARGO — Personal responsibility and the light touch of government died Friday after a courageous eight-month battle against medical science.

The cause of death was a statewide mask mandate issued in North Dakota with the hope of containing a global pandemic."

So this is how liberty dies.

With thunderous coughing.

[Kalbear]

56 minutes ago, felice said:

The official numbers, yes, but the real numbers would have been far, far higher than the official ones back in April. Just look at the death rate graph.

Disagree strongly. The death numbers were so much higher largely because of one major outbreak that was managed super badly on certain higher risk populations. There were basically two or three areas that were hurting for hospitalization. 

Right now hospitals across the country are at or near capacity. No where is safe. 

[Zorral]

"At least one out of every 378 Americans tested positive for the coronavirus this week, the COVID Tracking Project calculated. At this pace, the U.S. will record its world-leading 11th million case by early next week, and may soon report more than 200,000 new cases per day. "

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/americas-third-wave-of-covid-19-is-breaking-records-daily.html

There's a very long article in the InForum that goes through month-by-month what ND did not do and did do to get it to the place it is now with the pandemic.  Politics played a massive role.  Massive, from the very first case in the USA.  It happens to Those People, not to US.  And much like Norway in 1347, when they were free of the Great Mortality, by the winter of 1348 it raged throughout the country.  But in-between, because they hadn't gotten it, it was for others and never for them, they believed, because, well, god's special favor to we special godfearin' foksyfokes.  And it's still there.  Nobody's gonna mask up now or stay out of a bar.

 

 

[A True Kaniggit]

56 minutes ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Disagree strongly. The death numbers were so much higher largely because of one major outbreak that was managed super badly on certain higher risk populations. There were basically two or three areas that were hurting for hospitalization. 

Right now hospitals across the country are at or near capacity. No where is safe. 

Nothing to do with the fact the virus was still relatively new back then and we have better treatments now?

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

You know what’s really strange is that GA has never had a mask mandate.

Businesses are allowed to mandate masks for entry, and municipalities can require them on city-owned property (although only a few cities ever passed these)....

So, I wonder why North Dakota had had it so bad. Is it because of more voluntary mask wearing in GA? Cold weather in North Dakota driving people inside?

 

Strange how?

It's not like GA is bucking any trends though. It's higher than average for both cases per million and deaths per million for the USA. I would imagine it being warmer in GA for longer heading into winter will be a factor and maybe more voluntary mask wearing. But it does not appear that either factors are giving it enviable stats.

I'm more curious to know what Maine, Oregon, Washington, Vermont and NH are doing to have such low numbers.

[Kalbear]

39 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Nothing to do with the fact the virus was still relatively new back then and we have better treatments now?

Partially, but that doesn't really change the huge hospital rate either. The hospitalization rate is WAY up relative to before, and that's a significantly better indicator of how many people have it.

[felice]

1 hour ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Disagree strongly. The death numbers were so much higher largely because of one major outbreak that was managed super badly on certain higher risk populations. There were basically two or three areas that were hurting for hospitalization.

But worldwide numbers show the same thing - a huge spike in deaths in April (which has only been surpassed this month), with relatively low new case numbers. That's not one major outbreak, it's a consistent pattern. And lack of testing back then meaning the reported infection rates were far below the actual infection rates is the obvious explanation.

[Zorral]

We really are doomed.

Just got a text from a friend in North Dakota -- well sorta friend, more colleague -- historian -- his sister is a nurse and just falling apart.  The latest: a woman who nearly died after days in ICU, and has just come off the ventilator whispered, "Don't say I had covid because there is no such thing. It's a hoax."

[Kalbear]

4 hours ago, felice said:

But worldwide numbers show the same thing - a huge spike in deaths in April (which has only been surpassed this month), with relatively low new case numbers. That's not one major outbreak, it's a consistent pattern. And lack of testing back then meaning the reported infection rates were far below the actual infection rates is the obvious explanation.

Worldwide didn't. There were a few places which had horrific numbers (like italy) and most others did not. The death totals in those places were significantly increased by where they infected- which was often retirement homes. 

Again, the death and hospitalization rates were heavy but confined to specific regions. Places like north Dakota didn't have outbreaks. Idaho wasn't having to ration care then. Your explanation is an obvious one, but it doesn't actually fit facts. 

[Crixus]

On 11/12/2020 at 9:32 PM, Clueless Northman said:

Ah this part, sorry about that :/ I don't randomly use these terms when speaking of other countries. Even the "3rd world" concept I (rarely) use as simplification with wider audience when I assume people might not get the subtleties - but I've seen how the world evolves and remember very well that even China was definitely considered as strictly "3rd world" in my youth. We're way more into a wide continuum between filthy rich technologically-advanced and dirt poor countries (and some of the former do just as bad as the latter when it comes to the pandemic.

I meant sarcastically that Westerners will have a low opinion of "3rd world" / developing countries, won't think much of their people for tolerating or putting into power "corrupt" or murderous rulers and will basically consider a lot of rulers as wannabe dictators - the kind of people you accuse of "murdering their own people", to be shipped to The Hague or bombed or overthrown by Western military. or some local coup

What I also implied, is that it turns out out own guys are doing pretty much the same thing, on a similar scale - I mean, covid is killing as many people as 9/11 in 3 to 4 days in the US. Yet the average citizen/voter doesn't seem to care that there's a bloodbath and what is tantamount to mass murder going on. It will be hard to sell me the "X is a bad man and a dictator who breaks human rights" angle against pretty much anyone who isn't committing downright genocide in front of the cameras, from now on, because our own leaders have a lot of blood on their hands, with a tiny few exceptions like NZ. Sadly, I'm probably going to be in the minority on this for a long time...

Thanks for explaining your point. That makes complete sense, and I agree.

[Kalbear]

Guess another way to say it is this- even if you think that the rates earlier this year were comparable and the death rate was similar, the death rate is a lagging indicator. We are getting the deaths from the rate 2 or 3 weeks ago. At least in the US that was less than half of what we are at right now. And we are still increasing. 

 

[Which Tyler]

http://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

Quote

When good science is suppressed by the medical-political complex, people die

 

Politicians and governments are suppressing science. They do so in the public interest, they say, to accelerate availability of diagnostics and treatments. They do so to support innovation, to bring products to market at unprecedented speed. Both of these reasons are partly plausible; the greatest deceptions are founded in a grain of truth. But the underlying behaviour is troubling.

 

Science is being suppressed for political and financial gain. Covid-19 has unleashed state corruption on a grand scale, and it is harmful to public health.1 Politicians and industry are responsible for this opportunistic embezzlement. So too are scientists and health experts. The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency—a time when it is even more important to safeguard science.

...

The incident relates to research published this week by The BMJ, which finds that the government procured an antibody test that in real world tests falls well short of performance claims made by its manufacturers.1213 Researchers from Public Health England and collaborating institutions sensibly pushed to publish their study findings before the government committed to buying a million of these tests but were blocked by the health department and the prime minister’s office.14 Why was it important to procure this product without due scrutiny? Prior publication of research on a preprint server or a government website is compatible with The BMJ’s publication policy. As if to prove a point, Public Health England then unsuccessfully attempted to block The BMJ’s press release about the research paper.

ARTICLE CONTINUES...

[Luzifer's right hand]

Here in Austria they announced an increase in the lockdown measures including closing schools/distance learning(if nobody is at home kids can still go there but there are no normal classes). The measures are still less extreme than during the first lockdown(some of the stuff was not legal and the gov lost in court). It seems that way more people are against the lockdown now. The light lockdown we had for some time has not worked as well as the gov expected. If they do not enforce the rules properly this time and school are not the problem I doubt that things will improve quickly. 

The first official covid-19 positive death was on the 12th of March. We had more deaths between the 15th of October and today than during the rest of the year.

[Fez]

I'm starting to worry that I caught it when I went to the dentist last Monday. Although I only have a couple of very mild symptoms that could easily be from environmental causes (i.e. sore throat from dry air and fatigue from the fact that I'm always fatigued; I sleep terribly most nights). Here's a question though that I haven't been able to research an answer to:

If my temperature is almost always in the 97.xF range (and sometimes even in the high 96.xFs), would it be considered a mild fever if I was now at 98.5F?

I know that's part of the normal range, but I'm almost never that high when I've checked before and been fine.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I regularly measure in the 96's. When I was really sick and dealing with a caseworker and doctor, they didn't seemed concern at all that I was in the 98's, knowing what I told them. I think you just kind of have to know your body and what feels right and what doesn't. 

[Fez]

13 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

My temperature is usually in your range as you’ve described and I’ve felt fine at 98.5 but feverish/hot at 99.9. 

I don’t believe it’s the number per se that defines a fever, it’s “do you feel feverish”?

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I regularly measure in the 96's. When I was really sick and dealing with a caseworker and doctor, they didn't seemed concern at all that I was in the 98's, knowing what I told them. I think you just kind of have to know your body and what feels right and what doesn't. 

Thanks. Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. Honestly not sure how I feel; it's one of those things where it's hard to tell if I'm feeling sick or just worried that I might be feeling sick. Guess there's not really anything to be done besides keep monitoring myself; I was already going to be isolated anyway.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, Fez said:

Thanks. Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. Honestly not sure how I feel; it's one of those things where it's hard to tell if I'm feeling sick or just worried that I might be feeling sick. Guess there's not really anything to be done besides keep monitoring myself; I was already going to be isolated anyway.

 

The really annoying part is there are both a lot of symptoms and you can be asymptomatic. There isn't one obvious thing to look to. I mean merely having a cough could you mean you have it, or you could just be coughing. This mother fucking disease is one giant asshole.