The Worst Thing

[CamiloRP]

38 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I like this guy

<3 

[El Guapo]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I'm not referring to Dany's Sack, mate

I'm referring to Astapor's ultimate fate post Cleos, to the point that as of now Astapor, for all intents and purposes has ceased to exist.

Good. The world is better of with that hellhole.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

2 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Good. The world is better of with that hellhole.

Ugh... You do know that basically every person there died? Most of them former slaves...

[Daeron the Daring]

On 2/6/2021 at 7:34 PM, Curled Finger said:

ASOIAF takes place in a quasi medieval setting where people were considered much differently than our own current considerations.  We have made progress and enjoy the benefit of hundreds of years of hindsight in weighing the right and wrongness of events taking place in story.   I have read heated arguments over the worst things and experienced my own roiling nausea at events. There was an exceptional topic covering Hoster Tully's treatment of Lysa in the light of her pregnancy and the marrying of Jon Arryn and more than one outstanding discussion debating the pros and cons of Dany's crucifixion of the Mereneese masters.  Catelyn Tully's errors.  Cersei's betrayal of Lady Stokeworth to Qyburn.  The Hound running Mycah down was so well told from Ned's point of view I cannot help but feel disgusted at the act even though I have come to learn The Hound is not essentially a bad guy.   He did a terrible thing under the orders of his boss.   I still don't like it and find this act does influence my ideas about Sandor Clegane whether I like it or not.   Seems I can't help it.  Arya's later admission that she does not even recall Micha's face is most unsatisfying.   While this senseless murder of an innocent child sticks in my craw, it is not the worst I've read in ASOIAF.   What is the worst thing you have read in this dark dark tale?  Why? 

 

Thee things I'd like to mention:

-Theon and Jeyne. It's just horrible man, and remember that Jeyne even broke her face. Ugh, but many mentioned this, so i jump.

-Brandon Stark. That thingy that Awrys used on him literally broke my heart. I mean, killing yourself by trying to help your father.

-Jaehaera Targaryen. This was by far the worst for me, and I don't get why, but still. I mean, first thing's first, her brother is killed in front of her, her other brother got killed, her mother became suicide, and later her grandmother wanted to use her up to kill Aegon. And at this point she wasn't even 10. The child was just as broken as Aegon III. And I seriously tought: "Oh, such a nice ending, the two branches of House Targaryen ending up together. I mean, both could understand each other (because of what bozh had been trough), and those kind of stuff.." And then bumm, Unwin Peake came out of nowhere and murdered him.

Quote

Two years after her marriage, Jaehaera died when she reportedly threw herself from Maegor's Holdfast and was impaled on the spikes of the dry moat below. She lived for a half hour in agony before her death. 

 

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Ugh... You do know that basically every person there died? Most of them former slaves...

Few hundred lived. Maybe a thousand (well, currently alive). Sad state of affairs, sure, like virtually half of Westeros. 

Still, Aspator was a hellhole and the fact that its been wiped off the map, with its perverse hoplites, is not the worst

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Thee things I'd like to mention:

-Theon and Jeyne. It's just horrible man, and remember that Jeyne even broke her face. Ugh, but many mentioned this, so i jump.

-Brandon Stark. That thingy that Awrys used on him literally broke my heart. I mean, killing yourself by trying to help your father.

-Jaehaera Targaryen. This was by far the worst for me, and I don't get why, but still. I mean, first thing's first, her brother is killed in front of her, her other brother got killed, her mother became suicide, and later her grandmother wanted to use her up to kill Aegon. And at this point she wasn't even 10. The child was just as broken as Aegon III. And I seriously tought: "Oh, such a nice ending, the two branches of House Targaryen ending up together. I mean, both could understand each other (because of what bozh had been trough), and those kind of stuff.." And then bumm, Unwin Peake came out of nowhere and murdered him.

 

Whoo.   That's 3 really awful things.  Aerys did so many evil things your death of Brandon Stark shines the light on what may have been the true unveiling of the king.   Ghastly that.  Jaehaera Targaryan, yah WOW...it's curious how these people of Westeros can outdo themselves in a thing as unnerving if not nauseating as half of the things that befell this young person.  Takes me even farther back to Helaena.   That's all bad all the way around.  Thank you for bringing up some completely day ruining stories from our book of horrors.  

[Curled Finger]

20 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Few hundred lived. Maybe a thousand (well, currently alive). Sad state of affairs, sure, like virtually half of Westeros. 

Still, Aspator was a hellhole and the fact that its been wiped off the map, with its perverse hoplites, is not the worst

I dunno.  @Alyn Oakenfist is making a valid statement about scale of worst.  An entire city is laid to waste which recalls the decimation of the Riverlands nearly immediately to me.  Is it worse to destroy an entire city and 98% of its population or bring an entire kingdom to it's knees with destruction, famine, wanton outlawlessness and leave so many with such devastation?  They seem equally terrible to me.   Is there an existential better or worse here? 

When a thing or place or person is gone it is gone forever, left to time and tale.  I can summon maybe a dozen places I would not be sad, perhaps even relieved to be rid of in our world, of course these are empty places much as I know of them.  There have been horrible rulers--wicked crazed unthinkably horrible rulers in the last century in our world as I am sure there remain a few still.  I don't know that I would want to lose everything--dialect, perceptions of culture and belief, traditions and customs because a place with bad rulers gave the entire hood a bad name.  All the people of Astapor could not have been powerful enough to fuel the seediness and utter hopelessness that was Astapor.  We are only as as good as what we know.  It seems they had no problem annihilating people, places and things in the day.  

[Hugorfonics]

46 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I dunno.  @Alyn Oakenfist is making a valid statement about scale of worst.  An entire city is laid to waste which recalls the decimation of the Riverlands nearly immediately to me.  Is it worse to destroy an entire city and 98% of its population or bring an entire kingdom to it's knees with destruction, famine, wanton outlawlessness and leave so many with such devastation?  They seem equally terrible to me.   Is there an existential better or worse here? 

When a thing or place or person is gone it is gone forever, left to time and tale.  I can summon maybe a dozen places I would not be sad, perhaps even relieved to be rid of in our world, of course these are empty places much as I know of them.  There have been horrible rulers--wicked crazed unthinkably horrible rulers in the last century in our world as I am sure there remain a few still.  I don't know that I would want to lose everything--dialect, perceptions of culture and belief, traditions and customs because a place with bad rulers gave the entire hood a bad name.  All the people of Astapor could not have been powerful enough to fuel the seediness and utter hopelessness that was Astapor.  We are only as as good as what we know.  It seems they had no problem annihilating people, places and things in the day.  

I agree that erasing German beer garden culture would hamper the wellbeing of our world, hell, Ill take the lederhosen. Which isnt to say I disprove of tokars, or the Harpy, I dont even care about corgi puppy kebabs. 

I do care about Unsullied though. They are the red bricks, not the olives. Slavers Bay, specifically Aspator is, and has been for like thousands of years, synonymous with Unsullied training. Erasing Aspator from the map will certainly not hamper the wellbeing of its world

[Alyn Oakenfist]

55 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

They seem equally terrible to me.   Is there an existential better or worse here? 

They are the worst things in the story in terms of scale. So far. I'm sure Euron, Dany and the Others will find ways to top them, but that's for TWOW.

As to which is worse, I'd say Astapor for the reason that the Riverlands are decimated but not destroyed. However, there' no coming back now for Astapor, and it's culture. Whatever remains of the populace now lives in Meereen. So I'd say Astapor is worse from how permanent it is. It's bordering on genocide

[Curled Finger]

2 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Which isnt to say I disprove of tokars, or the Harpy, I dont even care about corgi puppy kebabs. 

 

Corgi puppy kebabs is a worst thing.    Who eats puppies!

[Alyn Oakenfist]

3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Erasing Aspator from the map will certainly not hamper the wellbeing of its world

Erasing some random African country will not hamper the wellbeing of the world, still it doesn't make it any less awful. Same here.

Astapor was a city filled with people. They're almost all dead now.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

Who eats puppies!

It's actually a delicacy in Vietnam. Alongside cats. Yuck

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

It's actually a delicacy in Vietnam. Alongside cats. Yuck

Remind me to never ever go to lunch with you and @Hugorfonics

[Alyn Oakenfist]

9 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Remind me to never ever go to lunch with you and @Hugorfonics

Good idea. We'd probably just spend all the time debating history. Probably invite @Aldarion too.

[ShimShim]

Ramsey just being comically evil.

[LindsayLohan]

How could you guys forget Arya cockblocking Gendry in the Riverlands?

[ShimShim]

4 minutes ago, LindsayLohan said:

How could you guys forget Arya cockblocking Gendry in the Riverlands?

I need a refresher on that, when did she cockblock him.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:34 AM, Curled Finger said:

Arya's later admission that she does not even recall Micha's face is most unsatisfying

A lot of characters forget things when they die. Maybe she died a time or two and didn’t realize it

[Nevets]

Gregor and the Tickler torturing the villagers at the God's Eye.

163 slave children crucified. 

Red Wedding.

Ramsay's "hunts".

Gang rape of Tysha.

Jeyne Poole's treatment by Littlefinger and Ramsay (probably the worst story of an established character).

Treatment of slaves at Astapor.

Rape of the Lazareen village. 

[Curled Finger]

42 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Gregor and the Tickler torturing the villagers at the God's Eye.

163 slave children crucified. 

Red Wedding.

Ramsay's "hunts".

Gang rape of Tysha.

Jeyne Poole's treatment by Littlefinger and Ramsay (probably the worst story of an established character).

Treatment of slaves at Astapor.

Rape of the Lazareen village. 

Thank you for adding the Red Wedding.   I wondered why no one mentioned that.  You've added those horrible pages we met Mirri Mas Dur in.  Definitely a fine listing of worst things.   Would you add the Faceless Men and their weird church of death in here anywhere?