Iskaral Pust Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Which Manchester defeat was worse this week? United managed to lose to a much inferior team, but they did at least play their best team available and mainly lost due to the same problems that have been there all along. City lost a game in which they were only narrow favorites, but their problems looked more self-inflicted with that line-up and tactics. A recurring problem for Pep in the big European games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said: Which Manchester defeat was worse this week? United managed to lose to a much inferior team, but they did at least play their best team available and mainly lost due to the same problems that have been there all along. City lost a game in which they were only narrow favorites, but their problems looked more self-inflicted with that line-up and tactics. A recurring problem for Pep in the big European games. I think City’s was much worse. Chelsea’s goal doesn’t happen if Fernandinho or Rodri start. Pep over thought like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Just the saw highlights. I think the City loss was worse but for different reasons. It didn't look like the absence of Rodri/Fernandinho was the problem. The problem was that City were unable to create anything dangerous. Chelsea even had the luxury of wasting at least two excellent chances (Werner, Pulisic). Besides City played in the FA cup against Chelsea with both Rodri and Fernandinho, so to say they surely would've won the game had he just picked either one of them. The problem was that Tuchel has apparently found a way to more or less neutralize City's play. That was their third encounter this year, and the third time City were beaten more convincingly than the score line suggests. The seeming toothlessness of City is what makes this loss worse IMO. Tuchel has given his friend/mentor some homework to do for next season, and I am curious how Pep will respond. In turn Tuchel will probably spend the next season working on Chelsea's offense. Really unlucky scene with KdB. Run of the mill tactical foul in midfield by Rüdiger, where the defender gets into the path of the attacker to stop a counter before it gets dangerous. It didn't look like deliberate shot to the head, just a really bad collission. Rüdiger really isn't like Ramos with a history of deliberately injuring opposing players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I think the lack of Rodri or Fernandinho makes sense in a game where one team is going to stay compact and not allow you space. It shows a lot of confidence that you won’t get hit on the counter as much but was clearly an effort to try and create more. In a game where I shouldn’t really root for either side, I really didn’t want Chelsea to win. As a side they really don’t feel like a club that should have won the champions league ever, let alone twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Gundogan is City’s top scorer pretty sure and kinda a liability defensively. I think it was a very bad idea to have him as the furthest lying mid in a final. They were toothless and very well may have still lost with a proper DM in but I think it was a very weird and costly decision. And they also looked a lot better once Fernandinho came on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Tuchel has given his friend/mentor some homework to do for next season, and I am curious how Pep will respond. They’ll buy Kane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: In a game where I shouldn’t really root for either side, I really didn’t want Chelsea to win. As a side they really don’t feel like a club that should have won the champions league ever, let alone twice. This so much. They were such a shit club for all their history now they are up there with Juve, and just behind Inter and Man Utd? Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncalagonTheBlack Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Hah! Pep is still a fraud! but still wanted City to win. Hate Chelsea and hate Tuchel. Not to worry, Klopp will put the smackdown on him next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 5 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Run of the mill tactical foul in midfield by Rüdiger, where the defender gets into the path of the attacker to stop a counter before it gets dangerous. It didn't look like deliberate shot to the head, just a really bad collission. Rüdiger really isn't like Ramos with a history of deliberately injuring opposing players. Maybe he didn't mean to hurt De Bruyne but he meant to foul him. If you deliberately foul someone and recklessly plant your shoulder in their face and, apparently, break their nose and give them an orbital fracture that should nailed on be a red card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Not starting either Rodri or Fernandinho was a mistake but I think the bigger mistake was Pep not taking lessons from the recent league match between the two sides where he matched Chelsea's three at the back and went with two up front. Of all the games between the two sides since Tuchel took over, that was the one where City performed the best. They shut down Chelsea's counterattacking threat for the most part while creating more themselves and if it wasn't for Aguero being so nonchalant with his penalty, City would have been 2-0 up at halftime and cruising. In any case, Chelsea were always going to be very difficult to beat no matter what Pep did. City have had problems against physical sides that sit a bit deeper, press well and are good in transitions with the ability and pace to launch fast counterattacks - Klopp's Liverpool, Tuchel's Chelsea and Solskjaer's United have given Guardiola a lot of problems playing this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I’m not sure. I really think he should have just tried to use the same lineup that beat PSG. Make Chelsea beat your best team. He gave Chelsea way too much respect trying to change things to match them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ljkeane said: Maybe he didn't mean to hurt De Bruyne but he meant to foul him. If you deliberately foul someone and recklessly plant your shoulder in their face and, apparently, break their nose and give them an orbital fracture that should nailed on be a red card. Absolutely. If a foul causes serious injury, regardless of intent, it should be a red. To see Chelsea fans lionising him for what basically amounts to criminal assault is sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Mark Antony said: I’m not sure. I really think he should have just tried to use the same lineup that beat PSG. Make Chelsea beat your best team. He gave Chelsea way too much respect trying to change things to match them Probably should have. I don't think Guardiola was even trying to match Chelsea. I'm not really sure what he was trying to do. Matching Chelsea to try and neutralise their counter would have been going with a back 3 and a DM. Playing a horribly out of form Sterling was another terrible idea. Ultimately Pep overthought himself into a knot yet again in a big European game to the detriment of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Absolutely. If a foul causes serious injury, regardless of intent, it should be a red. I'm not sure I'd go quite that far. If, say, you lightly tugged on someone's shirt and they tripped over and hurt themselves I'm not sure that'd merit a red card. If you commit a foul that could be reasonably expected to seriously injure someone though that's clearly a red if they end up badly hurt for me. Like with a tackle you've got a responsibility to be in control of your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I know it was subsequently rescinded, but Son had his yellow card for his foul on Gomes varred up to red for serious foul play, once it was apparent Gomes was seriously hurt. No attempt to play the ball, causing de Bruyne to be knocked out with broken facial bones pretty much fits the bill for serious foul play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Pots 1 & 2 for the CL has been confirmed. Pot 1: Chelsea, Bayern, City, Atletico Madrid, Villarreal, Inter, Sporting and Lille Pot 2: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, United, PSG, Liverpool, Sevilla and Dortmund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share Posted May 30, 2021 I have some sympathy* for City — and KDB personally — losing their best player and potential Ballon D’Or winner in a final like that. Maybe Pep’s tactics would have come good if they had their best creator still on the field, even if they had their best finisher on the bench until far too late. *OTOH these are the fans and players who gleefully sang their song about Salah getting hurt by Ramos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Why isn't there more chatter about City's inability to finish around the goal? I understand questioning some of the coaching decisions, but City did have multiple goal scoring opportunities that they just whiffed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Consigliere said: Pots 1 & 2 for the CL has been confirmed. Pot 1: Chelsea, Bayern, City, Atletico Madrid, Villarreal, Inter, Sporting and Lille Pot 2: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, United, PSG, Liverpool, Sevilla and Dortmund Pot 2 looks just as strong and arguably stronger depending on how some heavyweights rebound. How often does that happen? The EL winner in Pot 1 is a farce — they should use their UEFA coefficient — and a nice lottery prize for some team in Pot 2 (a non-Spanish team this year, so a 20% probability for each of the others) and perhaps a gift to some small team in Pot 3. At least there are no Russian teams getting an undeserved seeding any longer. Spare a thought for PSG’s spoilt fans this summer: they lost the league to Lille, saw both of their recently sacked managers win European trophies, Mbappe looks like he’s leaving, and Neymar is embroiled in a sexual assault scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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