The Wisdom of Crowds by Joe Abercrombie [SPOILER THREAD]

[Calibandar]

Abercrombie just mentioned on his blog that Subpress will be collecting his 3 shorts that he did for Age of Madness along with a new 4th one, into an illustrated novella, to be published around September.

[simbad287]

Hi all, i'm new on here, and came to see if anyone else agrees, but am so surprised to see no one on this website seems to also think RIKKE et all were all POISONED at the end by the ale.... Byaz hand in that of course.  Don't you too notice the subtle reference to the throat after someone drank the ale?!

[Maithanet]

On 1/3/2022 at 8:48 AM, simbad287 said:

Hi all, i'm new on here, and came to see if anyone else agrees, but am so surprised to see no one on this website seems to also think RIKKE et all were all POISONED at the end by the ale.... Byaz hand in that of course. 

I don't see any indication that the ale was poisoned.  If Abercrombie had intended for the ale to be poisoned, I think he would have made that clear, or at least made a strong hint of it like people coughing. 

Quote

Don't you too notice the subtle reference to the throat after someone drank the ale?!

No?  I don't see anything like that.  Nail scratches his beard...

[Jerol]

I just staged a marathon in the past couple weeks, completing the previous book and slamming through this one. It's an odd formula that Joe has now, where the big battle/action sequences come somewhere in the middle or two-thirds mark. Few write these as well as he does but it leaves for a quiet and frustrating ending. I agree with others in that it feels this entire trilogy is a transition, the real climax will come the next time he tackles a trilogy. I'm 64 so I hope I live to see it. 

Broad is not a great character but he apparently was necessary to keep the pieces moving and to provide a point of view. I am not saying he bored me but I knew exactly what was going to happen and that Savine would manipulate him.

Savine, on the other hand, is a great and complex character. She's a total shit but yet she's quite human, quite damaged, and is the most fun to watch. Leo is a complete dick who only got worse. The guy needs some buttsecks and he needs it now. I think his wife is trying to facilitate that. Speaking of which, she could use a cunning linguist but her best one just got the noose. 

Orso had the best story arc but was always doomed. I was sad to see him go but I know Joe does like to kill who we're attached to. Farewell you worthless, feckless, witty bastard. 

Oh how I am sick of Bayaz and his petty manipulations. Someone figure out a way to kill this fucker. Haul some howitzers up to the Great Northern Library and go full Buffy the Vampire Slayer on him. But no one will and we'll have to depend on someone magical to take him out. I still say the Buffy solution is best. And for crying out loud Joe, if they can have trains and cannons, it's time to bring in some muskets. Some of these assholes just need a musket ball in the head. Or a howitzer sheill

I need a break from the world of Joe now. He's a nice guy. I bantered with him once or twice when he used to come around here. Perhaps it was his time in the film and television industry that gave him the concept of a place where there are absolutely no redeeming characters. Lord Grimdark certainly earns his name in these three books. I will now read a couple stories in Tuf Voyaging to cleanse the palate, a little Murderbot, and then there's a Djinn I have to master. That should calm me (but not Becky Chambers, I'm not that far into the Abyss). 

[Galactus]

So, I'm about halfway through (I stopped reading for reasons and picked it up yesterday) and well... My immediate thought is "This is a bit TOO close to the french revolution" (or rather, the popular image of the french revolution) to the point where I could start matching characters, and that's a bit boring, let's see how he sorts it out. 

[karaddin]

I'm a little surprised by the annoyance at the "twists" being too obvious because i didn't think they were even meant to be twists. I particularly enjoyed the game of "is this where Zuri is going to show she's an eater? Oh, nope. How about now? Nope" and that he held it until right at the end to actually pay it off. I thought her being accused of being an eater when arrested was the point where he was beating those who hadn't realised it yet over the head so no one could possibly think it was a twist.

I think the main thing to realise about their alliance with Glokta is that they've abandoned Khalul as well - it's an alliance of the puppets of the magi banding together to cut their strings.

On Bayaz being vulnerable - yes he was unconscious for some time after blowing those people up, but I could have sworn we see that he's changed his tune on breaking the 2nd Law and become an Eater himself now in The Heroes? So he's much less vulnerable now, eater powers are sufficiently to defend himself against regular soldiers so he'd only need to bust out the art for the eaters and it might not tax him so heavily any more.

ETA: Just reread the chapter with Calder's meeting with Bayaz and it's not explicitly stated that it's human flesh, that was just my interpretation from 

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dinner hasn’t really started until you’re served something that bleeds.’

while eating right next to a mass grave, along with the amusement at the possibility Calder will eat it and "Back Dow has [dessert]". I think I'm sticking to that interpretation but it's not explicitly canonical

[SeanF]

20 hours ago, karaddin said:

I'm a little surprised by the annoyance at the "twists" being too obvious because i didn't think they were even meant to be twists. I particularly enjoyed the game of "is this where Zuri is going to show she's an eater? Oh, nope. How about now? Nope" and that he held it until right at the end to actually pay it off. I thought her being accused of being an eater when arrested was the point where he was beating those who hadn't realised it yet over the head so no one could possibly think it was a twist.

I think the main thing to realise about their alliance with Glokta is that they've abandoned Khalul as well - it's an alliance of the puppets of the magi banding together to cut their strings.

On Bayaz being vulnerable - yes he was unconscious for some time after blowing those people up, but I could have sworn we see that he's changed his tune on breaking the 2nd Law and become an Eater himself now in The Heroes? So he's much less vulnerable now, eater powers are sufficiently to defend himself against regular soldiers so he'd only need to bust out the art for the eaters and it might not tax him so heavily any more.

ETA: Just reread the chapter with Calder's meeting with Bayaz and it's not explicitly stated that it's human flesh, that was just my interpretation from 

while eating right next to a mass grave, along with the amusement at the possibility Calder will eat it and "Back Dow has [dessert]". I think I'm sticking to that interpretation but it's not explicitly canonical

You’re not the only one to suspect that Bayaz Eats.

[Rhom]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

You’re not the only one to suspect that Bayaz Eats.

 

23 hours ago, karaddin said:

ETA: Just reread the chapter with Calder's meeting with Bayaz and it's not explicitly stated that it's human flesh, that was just my interpretation from 

while eating right next to a mass grave, along with the amusement at the possibility Calder will eat it and "Back Dow has [dessert]". I think I'm sticking to that interpretation but it's not explicitly canonical

Joe was specifically asked about that scene one time and IIRC his answer was “He’s certainly eating something.”

[karaddin]

8 minutes ago, Rhom said:

 

Joe was specifically asked about that scene one time and IIRC his answer was “He’s certainly eating something.”

Well that certainly fits Joe lol. I found a Reddit thread discussing it after my post and it had some good arguments against him being an Eater so I certainly understand anyone reading it differently.

[mormont]

My feeling is that at the time he wrote that scene, Joe hadn't really made up his mind whether Bayaz was going to become an Eater or merely employ Eaters, so he left his options open and just hinted at it. Might be completely off base though.

[Maithanet]

Yeah, I lean towards no, because Bayaz has had ample opportunity to start eating over his thousand year life, and it seems a little odd that he'd start now.  But I'll admit, it's ambiguous as of the end of Heroes. 

[karaddin]

15 hours ago, mormont said:

My feeling is that at the time he wrote that scene, Joe hadn't really made up his mind whether Bayaz was going to become an Eater or merely employ Eaters, so he left his options open and just hinted at it. Might be completely off base though.

That sounds pretty reasonable, and we've had nothing since then that's forced him to commit either way.

 

9 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Yeah, I lean towards no, because Bayaz has had ample opportunity to start eating over his thousand year life, and it seems a little odd that he'd start now.  But I'll admit, it's ambiguous as of the end of Heroes. 

I think my thought process at the time was that he realised how weak he was becoming after that bout of unconsciousness, how threatening the eaters had become, and who cares about breaking the 2nd Law after you've so spectacularly violated the first. I now think that last one is less applicable in that he was never bothered about breaking the rules, it was just a combination of "it wasn't in his interests yet" and pride at not needing to.

[Jerol]

And pour one out for Bremer dan Gorst, who became one of the best characters in the series. 

[karaddin]

4 hours ago, Jerol said:

And pour one out for Bremer dan Gorst, who became one of the best characters in the series. 

Savine's match with him in A Little Hatred is one of my favourite scenes I think. Her realisation of just how dangerous he is somehow manages to emphasise it even more than The Heroes did.

[Rhom]

That sounds familiar…  

[karaddin]

3 hours ago, Rhom said:

That sounds familiar…  

it does indeed

[Durckad]

Say one thing about Joe Abercrombie, say he's a fresh new voice in this goddamn genre.

[Walter the Singing Wildcat]

Is it not clear that the "I am returned" from the vision is Khalul (sp)?  

Seeing all this Euz speculation which is also plausible but I swear the "rumored to have been killed by a demon" insert is a clue.  

[Garlan the Gallant]

On 4/2/2022 at 4:49 PM, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

Is it not clear that the "I am returned" from the vision is Khalul (sp)?  

Seeing all this Euz speculation which is also plausible but I swear the "rumored to have been killed by a demon" insert is a clue.  

Not nearly as interesting as it would be if it would be Euz, IMO

[Maithanet]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:04 PM, Garlan the Gallant said:

Not nearly as interesting as it would be if it would be Euz, IMO

Another possibility would be Glustrod (or I guess any of the sons, although the other three feels much less likely).