karaddin Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Bernard tells Stubbs he will not make it… but Stubbs is still kicking at the end of this episode… Stubbs knows Bernard is saying goodbye and let's him assume it's because he (Stubbs) won't make it when it's actually because Bernard won't make it. I assume if he tells Stubbs the truth then Stubbs won't do what he needs to do. I'm not sure what's going on with Christina. Best guess is that she's basically a simulation running in reverse augmented reality. So the world around her has been real but everything interacting with her is not. She was able to actually interact with the world when giving orders but as Teddy says this fails once William jacks up the volume on the tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 God damn the music in this show is the bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TormundsWoman Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 9 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Bernard tells Stubbs he will not make it… but Stubbs is still kicking at the end of this episode… Interestingly after reading the responses to your comment I watched that particular scene and they may be correct. Writing was super sneaky! Quote Bernard: You’ve been a good friend. Stubbs: Fuck you Bernard, you’re never this nice. What aren’t you telling me? Bernard: You know me so well… I don’t really have to say it, do I? Stubbs: I don’t make it? Bernard: (lowers eyes to the right) Stubbs: (chuckles sadly) I’ve waited 23 yrs for this… exchaging glances Bernard: Go left at the fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 This episode was easily my favorite of the last 3 seasons at least. At the same time, unless they pull a massive cop-out, I can't see the show going for a s05. Maybe it will be a sneaky series finale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grozeng Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 I thought we were dealing with adifferent timeline thing when they showed Christina and Teddy walk down a hall and then showed Frankie and Stubbs come out of the same hall right after walking the other way. But it was just Christina and Teddy are not in the real world. I thought there was some interaction with Christina and people though (like her boss and roommate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 52 minutes ago, grozeng said: I thought we were dealing with adifferent timeline thing when they showed Christina and Teddy walk down a hall and then showed Frankie and Stubbs come out of the same hall right after walking the other way. But it was just Christina and Teddy are not in the real world. I thought there was some interaction with Christina and people though (like her boss and roommate). There's interaction from Christina's perspective, but are they even real people? The roommate could easily not be, and earlier in the season I thought it was odd how he just appeared behind her when she tried search for Dolores Abernathy. My guess is there's an empty office, no boss and no roommate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 I do find it odd that she could command the story of her boss if he was a simulated routine like her rather than a real person. I was thinking back about Teddy protecting her from Peter, but I'm wondering if Peter was basically a sort of ghost in the machine, a memory of the real Peter. This would explain why the date for his death was so many years back, right, if the real Peter had died years earlier but his simulation was still wandering around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grozeng Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 And the date she went on with that guy. A lot of this just seems odd if none of her interactions were real. Maybe when she drowned herself she stopped being real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 6 hours ago, grozeng said: And the date she went on with that guy. A lot of this just seems odd if none of her interactions were real. Maybe when she drowned herself she stopped being real. She didn’t drown herself, though. She tried and was unsuccessful. I think she then realizes the truth of what Teddy said. And speaking of Teddy, there was something weird there. He talks about Caleb but there’s no way he should know anything about Caleb, he’d never come across him. I’d hate like hell to find out next week that Halorous sent him, that he’s not really real. And Bernard said that Maeve was a copy, so is there a real Maeve who pops up next week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grozeng Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 28 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: She didn’t drown herself, though. She tried and was unsuccessful. I think she then realizes the truth of what Teddy said. But didn't she. She goes all still, the music changes, her demeanor changes. Maybe the part of her that was interacting with humans is now gone and she now can't be seen? There was just too much interaction before for everything not to be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijote Light Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 39 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: She didn’t drown herself, though. She tried and was unsuccessful. I think she then realizes the truth of what Teddy said. And speaking of Teddy, there was something weird there. He talks about Caleb but there’s no way he should know anything about Caleb, he’d never come across him. I’d hate like hell to find out next week that Halorous sent him, that he’s not really real. And Bernard said that Maeve was a copy, so us there a real Maeve who pops up next week? I’m pretty sure that Maeve moment was from when Bernard was in the Sublime running simulations. I also agree with grozeng, that something happened when she drowned herself. What exactly that was I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 8 hours ago, Ran said: I do find it odd that she could command the story of her boss if he was a simulated routine like her rather than a real person. I was thinking back about Teddy protecting her from Peter, but I'm wondering if Peter was basically a sort of ghost in the machine, a memory of the real Peter. This would explain why the date for his death was so many years back, right, if the real Peter had died years earlier but his simulation was still wandering around? I think Christina herself is a subroutine of the city management program, Teddy and the boss are also subroutines so represent Christina talking to herself and it's a repetition of the bicameral mind stuff from S1. The city management system as a whole manages the daily loops of the humans, writes the narratives etc, but manual orders issued from the tower have escalated privileges and override the automated system. Given Hale was monitoring Christina it's clearly not an accident that the subroutine exists and I think "trying to recreate the magic of what Ford and Arnold did with Dolores" is a reasonable explanation for what she's been hanging around in the human world trying to do. As the Christina subroutine becomes sentient is able to integrate and control other subroutines. It's possibly going to wind up as a more generalised artificial super intelligence that isn't constrained to a body in the way the rest are, Nolan certainly has form on interest in that subject as well, so it is still another advancement on top of the hosts - even if it took a simulated body to get there. Under this theory what happened in the bath was that she realised the sensation of drowning was entirely in her mind, not an actual physical sensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 That would also make Christina the entity that Bernard is hoping to influence for his one path - that she will resurrect humans and/or hosts in the ruins of the old civilization perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijote Light Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I think we’re supposed to at least consider the possibility that it’s Teddy that Bernard is speaking to, which would make sense because Dolores would likely have uploaded him into the Sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TormundsWoman Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just wanted to clarify something since I rewatched the ep. Bernard talks to a version of himself when he looks at his iPad type device. And the iPad Bernard he talks to responds "reach with the right hand". Who's iPad Bernard, I don't really know. Is it a Bernard from the Sublime since the portal is open and they may be able to communicate? Or is it a Dolores pearl replica in Bernard's body version 250 (?) or something? who knows at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TormundsWoman Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 9:28 PM, karaddin said: I think Christina herself is a subroutine of the city management program, Teddy and the boss are also subroutines so represent Christina talking to herself and it's a repetition of the bicameral mind stuff from S1. The city management system as a whole manages the daily loops of the humans, writes the narratives etc, but manual orders issued from the tower have escalated privileges and override the automated system. Given Hale was monitoring Christina it's clearly not an accident that the subroutine exists and I think "trying to recreate the magic of what Ford and Arnold did with Dolores" is a reasonable explanation for what she's been hanging around in the human world trying to do. As the Christina subroutine becomes sentient is able to integrate and control other subroutines. It's possibly going to wind up as a more generalised artificial super intelligence that isn't constrained to a body in the way the rest are, Nolan certainly has form on interest in that subject as well, so it is still another advancement on top of the hosts - even if it took a simulated body to get there. Under this theory what happened in the bath was that she realised the sensation of drowning was entirely in her mind, not an actual physical sensation. That is a very interesting theory you have there. I did notice all the similarities between the narratives of Dolores and Christina but didn't go so far as the bicameral mind where she talks to herself. Gotta say for all Christina's claim of not knowing, someone mentioned above they were taken aback she searches her alter ego Dolores Abernathy as she gets to the office. She may have heard Dolores, but where the hell would she get Abernathy if she has not kept anything of her background at all. And she did not recognized Teddy which she should if she remembered Abernathy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Caught up. Yeah I have no clue what's up with the Christina reveal. Is this meant to be the final season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 50 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: Is this meant to be the final season? No. Or at least Ed Harris recently let it slip that the fifth season would be the last. OTOH, last time I checked, HBO still hasn't confirmed there will be a fifth season. I assumed that was because of shitty ratings, but maybe Joy and Nolan pushed them to hold off on announcing for story reasons? Regardless, if this was meant to be the last season you'd think HBO would've been hyping that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TormundsWoman Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 That’s interesting, so Ed Harris in July 10 after the season 4 was shot and he definitely knows what happens in the fourth, says he hopes host replica of William may have some shred of redeeming storyline in the end... Yep seems like they didn’t tell him the 4th season is the last but that there’s plans for MIB. Hope they don’t change their minds about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 So generally I like Bernard totally Dr. Stranging it, but that's quite the risk to take both Maeve and himself off the board. (Like, really what was the point in digging up Maeve and reviving her in the first place? Just to gain Frankie's trust?) Plus, at least Strange put up a fight right before he knew he was gonna die. As Stubbs would say, c'mon Bernard! Also, I think he definitely was talking to himself in the sublime on that ipad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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