spoilers [Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

16 minutes ago, Ran said:

I, too, would have preferred Viserys's proper crown, which was that of Jaehaerys. There's a photo somewhere where at one point Paddy Considine has the crown on wrong, with the Targaryen sigil at the side of his head... I'm guessing that was either a joke or a mistake they caught. Would be funny if they had to come back for reshoots just because the king didn't know how to wear his crown.

Doesn't the crown have the Dornish sigil, even though Dorne isn't part of the realm at this point?

[C.T. Phipps]

Just now, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Doesn't the crown have the Dornish sigil, even though Dorne isn't part of the realm at this point?

That's not remotely untrue to canon. Remember they always say ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.

The Targaryen Dynasty does not recognize Dornish independence.

[Syri0_F0rel]

11 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Speaking as a Medieval historian, constant states of war are usually where the MOST crossover happens. Just ask what the Kingdom of Jerusalem's relationship to Muslim citizens was.

Or Spain before the Reconquest.

Certainly, during the 100 years war, French influence didn't exactly get smaller.

I don't believe the Targaryens, before the conquest of Dorne, would promote a Dornishman to the Kingsguard and to the position of Hand off the King. 

[Ran]

He's not a Dornishman. He's from the Dornish Marches and may have a Dornish mother or even older ancestry, but he's a marcher of the Stormlands sworn to the Dondarrions.

Yes, they go, "Oh my gods, he's Dornish!" because of his looks, but he's born and raised in the Stormlands apparently. Doesn't have the accent, for one thing.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Ran

[C.T. Phipps]

33 minutes ago, Syri0_F0rel said:

I don't believe the Targaryens, before the conquest of Dorne, would promote a Dornishman to the Kingsguard and to the position of Hand off the King. 

You're right. He'd probably have to swear allegiance to the Seven Kingdoms first, which apparently his family did.

Or are we meaning Dornish in terms, "Ethnically Rhoynar."

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

12 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

Any guess as to why Rhaenys called Boremund her cousin instead of uncle ?

The wiki says that Rhaenys's mother was Jocelyn Baratheon, sister of Boremund Baratheon and Borros is Boremund's son, making him Rhaenys's first cousin.

[BlackLightning]

13 hours ago, zajaz said:

So what makes Criston Cole look 'Dornish'?. I don't know about you, guys, but if someone told me Criston was Alicent's cousin from her father's side (Hobert Hightower's son), I'd believe it.

LMAO...no offense but this is a "tell me you're white or white-adjacent without saying you're white or white-adjacent."

He's what my friends and I call...spicy white.

Meaning he's a shade or two darker than all the other white characters. Literally.

His skin tone has a goldish hue/undertone to it...that literally no one else in the show has. Plus, his hair is oily and thick and wavy and dark...which again, no other main character in the show has.

Criston Cole, the Kardashians, Marco Rubio, etc. all have a similar look. It's different from the Jennifer Lopez or Kamala Harris or Danny Trejo or Shakira look.

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Do any of you have non-book reader friends or family who watched the show? What did they think?

They loved it.

My 23-year-old sister said it felt more "real" and serious than GoT did.

13 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

The idea that people of an ethnicity don't live in their ethnicity's homeland is....not a new idea.

Exactly.

If Cole is a new house and common-born from the Dornish Marches, clearly...there is going to be some Dornish blood admixture going back and forth.

[Ran]

11 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

The wiki says that Rhaenys's mother was Jocelyn Baratheon, sister of Boremund Baratheon and Borros is Boremund's son, making him Rhaenys's first cousin.

That was Boremund, not Borros, though. Boremund should in fact be called uncle, not cousin.

[BlackLightning]

14 hours ago, zajaz said:

If only Aegon II were as sympathetic as Stephen of Blois was (or at least, as his chroniclers said he was)

You're kidding, right?

[C.T. Phipps]

8 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

You're kidding, right?

I mean even Stephen's supporters didn't like the guy.

Famously, that includes his own SON.

Sort of like Prince/King John, if you look at the real history, in fact, he was actually worse than his reputation.

Edited August 23, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Tywin's Wallet]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:56 PM, StarksInTheNorth said:

I’m really curious if the decide to have Alicent be ambitious or if it’s really just Otto.

I think that when she was young it was all Otto, but as she grew up and gave birth to sons she picked up lessons from her father. She got groomed to be a player in the game and just settled into it basically. 

[BlackLightning]

1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean even Stephen's supporters didn't like the guy.

Famously, that includes his own SON.

Sort of like Prince/King John, if you look at the real history, in fact, he was actually worse than his reputation.

Exactly.

Aegon II is a sleazebag but he is still 3x more sympathetic than Stephen de Blois

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

16 minutes ago, Ran said:

That was Boremund, not Borros, though. Boremund should in fact be called uncle, not cousin.

"At the tournament, Rhaenys Targaryen refers to Borros Baratheon as cousin".

I guess someone made a mistake somewhere.

[The Bard of Banefort]

9 minutes ago, Tywin's Wallet said:

I think that when she was young it was all Otto, but as she grew up and gave birth to sons she picked up lessons from her father. She got groomed to be a player in the game and just settled into it basically. 

Based on what I’ve heard/seen, her fear that Rhaenyra will kill her children drives her to a vengeful paranoia.

[C.T. Phipps]

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Based on what I’ve heard/seen, her fear that Rhaenyra will kill her children drives her to a vengeful paranoia.

Since they are heavily using Cersei to promote her, I think there's going to be a lot of sunk cost fallacy here.

She's married to a man she can't stand and births his children only to discover, in fact, that he has no intention of making them his heirs.

[The Bard of Banefort]

In retrospect, I don’t recall any of the premiere viewers even hinting at Aemma’s birthing scene. That’s so bizarre, considering how big of an impression it made on the general audience.

[Rockroi]

13 hours ago, Zorral said:

 You seem to have missed the commentator here who said watching this with his pregnant wife was anything but fun.  How old are you?  What do you know of women, pregnancy, childbirth, reproduction? how in the frackin world can you call that fun?

Oh, that's on them, then.  He should watch something else.  Its Westeros - bad shit happens.  That scene was great.  And I never said dying in childbirth was "fun."  I said women fighting against an actual patriarchy was "fun." 

I have kids; I was in the room when both were born.  I have no idea why that is relevant and dare I say, neither do you. 

But other than that your position seems total justified. 

[Ran]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

In retrospect, I don’t recall any of the premiere viewers even hinting at Aemma’s birthing scene. That’s so bizarre, considering how big of an impression it made on the general audience.

I think it was the "Bran thrown off the tower" moment. Didn't want to spoil it 

[Farerb]

I never understood why people concluded that there's a parallel between Alicent and Cersei. If anything Rhaenyra is more similar to Cersei: having many sexual partners, trying to pass off bastards as heirs, etc..

Alicent reminds me more of Catelyn to be honest. Dutiful daughter, dutiful wife, and the acceptance of her role in the patriarchal society as much as she expects the rules of that society will apply when it comes to her son.

Edited August 23, 2022 by farerb

[Lord Varys]

I imagine they added another generation to the Baratheons so Boremund is Rhaenys' first cousin, and Borros his son, her first cousin once removed. After all, Boremund Baratheon was born in 52 AC, I think, and in the show they added at least ten years to Viserys' reign, meaning we are in the year 113 AC when the show begins (or thereabouts), which means book Boremund would already be 61 years old at that time.

In the books his age kind of works, but there is still something off with him considering he is still unmarried in 80 AC when considered as husband for Daella (although he could already be widowed at that time, too). Still, though Borros must have been born even later since he guy isn't that old in 129 AC and he only has a number of teenaged daughters.

Borros himself could have been born as late as 90-100 AC.

Thus I think it is not that bad to have Boremund as a first cousin of the same generation as Rhaenys, while Borros is Rhaenyra's generation and his daughters of the same age/slightly younger than Alicent's and Rhaenyra's boys.

This could also help with Borros decision to side with the Greens rather than the Blacks. His kinship to Rhaenys and the Velaryons in the books is far too close, and the ridiculous way in which he lied about his aunt is, well, ridiculous.