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Who do you feel or think is the most underrated or unappreciated character in the series.


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People have underestimated Viserys.  He survived the mean streets of the Free Cities while taking care of a precious little girl.  He should have been a better brother.  He's a flawed character but he was also a very good teacher in many ways.  In a world where few are literate, he made sure his little sister could read and write very well.  Not only in the Common Tongue but in the language of the Gods (High Valyrian) as well.  Willem and Viserys raised a very intelligent young woman.  Their good qualities show up in Dany. 

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On 2/18/2023 at 8:54 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Agree about Edmure. At least he truly cares about the smallfolk and we see it firsthand. He's not preaching something he doesn't do... in fact, we learn this b/c he's already brought people into the castle, and Cat scolds him for it. 

Evil Cat at work again! She despises commoners, bastards and maybe even lesser nobles.

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1 hour ago, Shi Qiang said:

People have underestimated Viserys.  He survived the mean streets of the Free Cities while taking care of a precious little girl.  He should have been a better brother.  He's a flawed character but he was also a very good teacher in many ways.  In a world where few are literate, he made sure his little sister could read and write very well.  Not only in the Common Tongue but in the language of the Gods (High Valyrian) as well.  Willem and Viserys raised a very intelligent young woman.  Their good qualities show up in Dany. 

Off topic, but dude you and your fellow Targaryen enthusiasts club members schedules makes people wonder sometimes... 

Edited by Corvo the Crow
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1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Evil Cat at work again! She despises commoners, bastards and maybe even lesser nobles.

Are we heading towards such an orthodoxy that pointing out actual events from the books regarding broadly sympathetic characters is immediately ridiculed and ascribed to some kind of polemic agenda?

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14 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Are we heading towards such an orthodoxy that pointing out actual events from the books regarding broadly sympathetic characters is immediately ridiculed and ascribed to some kind of polemic agenda?

Are we heading towards scuh an orthodoxy that jokes are no longer allowed, especially regarding broadly sympathetic characters?

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1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Off topic, but dude you and your fellow Targaryen enthusiasts club members schedules makes people wonder sometimes... 

Viserys as we see him in the books is almost entirely unsympathetic. But there’s this drawing of young Viserys carrying Dany on his back, both of them looking fearful, that brought home to me that he was pretty heroic in the sense of keeping her alive, fed, and educated while having to trade with only his pride to sell off, excepting all the symbols of his family’s legacy. To highlight the difference; younger Viserys sold his crown before he sold his sister. Later Viserys probably wouldn’t, nor indeed would later Dany.

Dany seems to think that all the years keeping them alive…and when you are struggling to feed yourself, another mouth is a great burden…by more or less being willing to have his shattered pride mocked as entertainment to a variety of hosts…is what left him twisted and bitter. I think she’s probably right. But almost no one includes that in their assessment of him, and in fact he is called ‘entitled’ so often that most must have expunged it from the history of the character they are assessing. 

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46 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Are we heading towards scuh an orthodoxy that jokes are no longer allowed, especially regarding broadly sympathetic characters?

Sorry. 4/ 1/2 hours sleep over the last 3.5 days has me foggy brained and feeling unreasonably sorry for myself. 

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4 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

:excl:

Are you okay?

3 year old twins + weather + flu, just a bad combination. Just switched from cribs to beds, too, to add to the concoction. But it’s nothing every other parent hasn’t faced many times, nor indeed anywhere near my first of these. Grinding headache is probably adding to my bitchiness. But you are a sweetheart for being concerned, truly. 
 

edit: just noticed another way that my twins have changed me: I now use the word ‘sweetheart’ un-ironically. 

Edited by James Arryn
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unnoticed is a more apt description of this character.

 

Quote

'Willas has a bad leg but a good heart,' said Margaery. 'He used to read to me when I was a little girl, and draw me pictures of the stars.'

 

Quote

Willas is heir to Highgarden, and by all reports a mild and courtly young man, fond of reading books and looking at the stars. He has a passion for breeding animals as well, and owns the finest hounds, hawks, and horses in the Seven Kingdoms.

Reading books, studying the stars and passion for breeding animals are all very wise interests.

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Larra Rogare is massively underrated (her husband seems to get the recognition he deserves). The rumors about her are some of the best rumors, she has great gods, she abandons her four year old because she's done with people talking about her and being mean to her. Great character.

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  • 2 months later...
Posted (edited)

Gerris Drinkwater. Smart, loyal, trustworthy, the perfect knight. Always trying to give good advice, and he never loses his smile. Other people always think less of him than he deserves. Perfect summary:

 

 

Edited by Teelyr
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On 3/1/2023 at 12:23 PM, James Arryn said:

Viserys as we see him in the books is almost entirely unsympathetic. But there’s this drawing of young Viserys carrying Dany on his back, both of them looking fearful, that brought home to me that he was pretty heroic in the sense of keeping her alive, fed, and educated while having to trade with only his pride to sell off, excepting all the symbols of his family’s legacy. To highlight the difference; younger Viserys sold his crown before he sold his sister. Later Viserys probably wouldn’t, nor indeed would later Dany.

Dany seems to think that all the years keeping them alive…and when you are struggling to feed yourself, another mouth is a great burden…by more or less being willing to have his shattered pride mocked as entertainment to a variety of hosts…is what left him twisted and bitter. I think she’s probably right. But almost no one includes that in their assessment of him, and in fact he is called ‘entitled’ so often that most must have expunged it from the history of the character they are assessing. 

Yep good call 

The viserys we know has probably had inceasingly shorter stays among essos finest as they parade him around as a circus act. Hes brought up not just to believe hes the rightful king but that his father was beloved by the smallfolk and then betrayed. A famous uncle being crushed by a drunken women chasing beast on the trident and his fathers bitter former hand landing the final betrayal and insult with the sack of kl and the slaughter of his kin.

His view  will be a warped one  of the grasping old jon arryn the dirty old letch who takes a young bride as his price to betray !  the power hungrry hoster tully pimping  his very own daughters for power, the whoring brute king baratheon and his cold bastard brother and of course his norther savage friend ..the hypocrite ned stark, the so called famous man of honour who betrayed his king, his wife and later his own sisters choice of husband their beloved uncle

The stories of him being chased by the userpers cold blooded brother from dragonstone..the family birthright. From feeling like he had a genuine chance with the bravos marriage to wandering from.city tomcity begging mocking sellswords and rich merchants. 

Then ilyrio comes from no where and all his dreams are within his grasp again...he can save westeros and the smallfolk who long for their return!. so long denied any hope hed sieze ilryios plan like a fanatic. Hes probably bullied his sister all his life to take out misdirected fustration and/or to make a stubborn little girl run , eat up or keep quiet when he tells her!!!

Now we have to factor in physical cowardice....hes never had formal training at arms and now with ilyrio he may have to ride into battle. Hes constantly surrounded now by a martial culture , tired from riding all day and imtimidated by the dothraki and to add to it all his lil sister is comming into her own and slipping from his control. Hes gone with them out of desperation that khal 'pays him' soon. He grows fustrated and finaly when danys stands up to him he figures its over...but jorah wont even let him.steal back the eggs to buy a sellsword army. He drunkenly staggers in to confront dany and makes his last mistake

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  • 2 weeks later...

Brienne is underrated to the extent that there used to be a lot of people moaning about how boring her chapters were and how could she be so hopeless at looking for Sansa. The show may have changed that a bit.

I like her chapters, they show Brienne, and Pod as well, sticking to a task despite setbacks and lack of respect from others, using their native cunning to avoid traps. Her first efforts remind me so much of Dunk in the first novella, when he tackles the task of entering the tourney despite probably not actually being a knight. If it seems a vague and incompetent start, that's how it is with any problem, even academic ones, you have to cast around for a lead or an idea, get more information and not be afraid of feeling like a fool, before the pieces start coming together.

The parts after she goes off with DIck Crabbe is a switch in pace to very broody atmospheric stuff. I like the way some of the places she travel through are present ruins but have that old history attached - e.g .Dick's history and folk stories, or the Whispers which reminds me of Tintagel and of what Casterly Rock could become in time (until I heard it was a huge burrow!) It reminds me of Daphne Du Maurier stories set in Cornwell. There is an lot of foreshadowing and symbolism in these parts as well.

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The Reaver. What a name! Five kings ruled Westeros, but in the islands the title only meant one man. Capable of taking a loss, admitting it and swallowing his pride while getting ready for the next chapter is note worthy in Westeros. Surviving all his advisories he struck when the iron was hot and for the first time in three hundred years put the islands back on the map by annexing a sister kingdom.

Although his son acted tough when he first came back the Reaver could tell he was just a punk, similarly while I'm sure he loved both his brothers the treatment of his sister in law led to him choosing one brother over the other which brutal decision of course leads directly to his death. But aside from the crossroads of succession and the heartbreak of losing ones son and brother, the Reaver laughed off the foundations of sunset misogynism and sought to elevate his daughter onto the seastone chair. Balons ability to think for himself, exemplified with his banishment of the maesters separates himself from the rest of Westeros' simple minded lemmings.

 

 

The Bear. Another man capable of drafting his own decisions, able to oversee a global campaign from a bird's eye view, or go through battle strategies to take a city or a aquire an army or simply exuberating unparalleled tactics and ends battles personally through his prowess. His queen would be less then nothing of it weren't for his intelligence, vigor and  persistinceness which elevates him from a mere knight to a genuine hero.

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Donal Noye. One of the greatest characters never adapted in GOT, and members of the Night's Watch who served as one of Jon's mentors and showed that he would have been a great lord commander with him taking command of Castle Black against the Free Folks and showing great tactics, and his mutual kill with Mag the Mighty.

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In my opinion, no character is more slept on than Old Nan.

Just a little old lady used as the source of some worldbuilding background info? I think not!

People come up with wild Targaryen offspring theories, meanwhile she's sitting there, right from the beginning, with her unidentified eye and hair color, in addition to a mysterious past which saw her arrive in Winterfell from somewhere unspecified. She smells dragons in the red comet, and tells stories about King's Landing and Aegon's Conquest along side those of the North.

 "Dragons," she said, lifting her head and sniffing. She was near blind and could not see the comet, yet she claimed she could smell it. "It be dragons, boy," she insisted. Bran got no princes from Nan, no more than he ever had.

Meanwhile Old Nan has no problem calling Bran a "little lord". 

Even more interestingly, I believe Old Nan is the three eyed crow, not Bloodraven.

"The crow is the raven's poor cousin. They are both beggars in black, hated and misunderstood."

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