The Small Stuff That Doesn't Need, or Even Want, a Thread. #6

[LongRider]

You never heard of the Twinkie Defense?!  It's famous in the annals of true crime.  Briefly, "The term "Twinkie defense" is an umbrella term that, in the most general sense, refers to an unconventional defensive argument. The term originated from the 1979 trial of Dan White, a San Francisco politician, who was charged with first-degree murder. A testifying psychiatrist pointed out that White's consumption of sugary foods, such as Twinkies, could lead to diminished capacity. Using this testimony, White's lawyer was successfully able to persuade the jury that White lacked the premeditation and deliberation elements necessary to establish first-degree murder. As a result, White was ultimately convicted of a lighter offense of involuntary manslaughter." 

For dumbshit who ran his car through the Halloween Parade it was mentioned as a way to describe his irrational, violent and rageful behavior, even though the Twinkie Defense is of course, bullshit.   

Twinkie defense | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 hours ago, LongRider said:

You never heard of the Twinkie Defense?!  It's famous in the annals of true crime.  Briefly, "The term "Twinkie defense" is an umbrella term that, in the most general sense, refers to an unconventional defensive argument. The term originated from the 1979 trial of Dan White, a San Francisco politician, who was charged with first-degree murder. A testifying psychiatrist pointed out that White's consumption of sugary foods, such as Twinkies, could lead to diminished capacity. Using this testimony, White's lawyer was successfully able to persuade the jury that White lacked the premeditation and deliberation elements necessary to establish first-degree murder. As a result, White was ultimately convicted of a lighter offense of involuntary manslaughter." 

For dumbshit who ran his car through the Halloween Parade it was mentioned as a way to describe his irrational, violent and rageful behavior, even though the Twinkie Defense is of course, bullshit.   

Twinkie defense | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

Ah well, you see, a competent prosecutor would rebut this by showing the dash cam video. "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, does this look like a man with low blood sugar to you?" 

There's a psycho in Canada who ran down a Muslim family who's currently on trial right now. He's got a whole smorgasboard of "diminished mental capacity" arguments: "I did mushrooms the day before, I was depressed because my grandma just died, I was hearing voices, blah, blah" 

Fuck him. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Why couldn't it have been the Zebra Cakes defense?...

[LongRider]

^^^^^^I don't know if Zebra Cakes were around then, besides Zebra Cakes don't have the same panache as Twinkies.  They weren't worried about giant Zebra Cakes in Ghostbusters now, were they?

[A True Kaniggit]

6 hours ago, LongRider said:

^^^^^^I don't know if Zebra Cakes were around then, besides Zebra Cakes don't have the same panache as Twinkies.  They weren't worried about giant Zebra Cakes in Ghostbusters now, were they?

But you get two Zebra Cakes per pack. 
 

Also Zebra Cakes have six sides. 

[LongRider]

 

1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Also Zebra Cakes have six sides. 

Never heard of Zebra Cakes before, wonder if they can be found out West.  Will have to look for them. 

[A True Kaniggit]

5 hours ago, LongRider said:

 

Never heard of Zebra Cakes before, wonder if they can be found out West.  Will have to look for them. 

Well I haven’t eaten any in years.  It’s lot of sugar. 

[RhaenysBee]

Why does the side of my pie crust collapse into the pie plate? This doesn’t usually happen, not to this extent anyway (had to throw out an entire crust and restart with a similar but more manageable result), and I can’t think of anything to blame than the butter. It’s not the right consistency or fat ratio or I’m not sure what it is about this butter, but it is my prime suspect.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

7 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Why does the side of my pie crust collapse into the pie plate? This doesn’t usually happen, not to this extent anyway (had to throw out an entire crust and restart with a similar but more manageable result), and I can’t think of anything to blame than the butter. It’s not the right consistency or fat ratio or I’m not sure what it is about this butter, but it is my prime suspect.

 

Yeah, butter can be sinister that way.

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-keep-pie-crust-from-shrinking

[Zorral]

The women in my family made terrific pie crust (and pies, and so much else).  They never used butter for pie crusts, but lard.

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

The women in my family made terrific pie crust (and pies, and so much else).  They never used butter for pie crusts, but lard.

I think women can get into fist-fights over butter v lard. Lard for better flakiness and easier to work with, butter for taste. The butter has to be very, very cold.

The problem is finding good lard, and not stuff that’s been hydrogenated.

[Zorral]

17 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

The problem is finding good lard, and not stuff that’s been hydrogenated.

That wasn't a problem for the women of this farming community.  If one didn't have lard from one's own pigs and geese, one got it from a neighbor, who is also a member of the PTA, the Homemakers' Clubs, one's congregation, whose kids all go to school together, etc.

[RhaenysBee]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

The women in my family made terrific pie crust (and pies, and so much else).  They never used butter for pie crusts, but lard.

Ah lard. Honestly I have never made pastry with lard, because it brings back memories of my great aunt’s apple strudel from pig slaughters which could make me gag as a child because it tasted like pure lard. (Pig slaughters are a culture thing, we aren’t barbarians) so anything I ever made was always margarine, butter, or sunflower/olive oil. I… might experiment with this for a tiny batch of mini pies, but I’m team butter. 

47 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I think women can get into fist-fights over butter v lard. Lard for better flakiness and easier to work with, butter for taste. The butter has to be very, very cold.

The problem is finding good lard, and not stuff that’s been hydrogenated.

I usually pop butter into the freezer for a bit before mixing the crust pastry, it usually sits in the fridge for 4-6 hours (I prep in the morning and bake late afternoon/early evening), and after I roll it out and place it into the pie plate, I once again pop the crust back into the freezer for 10 minutes, especially if it’s a par-bake. That usually works okay. 

2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Yeah, butter can be sinister that way.

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-keep-pie-crust-from-shrinking

Thank you, I’m so grateful to you for this! Probably the most helpful link ever. I did most of these points but far from all, so maybe we are onto something and it’s not the butter after all! 

first crust: 
I used a new glass plate, which I got for its perfect size, but it’s the first time I par-baked in it, I only made standard double crust apple pies since I have it, so there’s that
I also par-baked on the same temp as I did the full baking, which was in line with the recipe but probably misguided anyway. Will make sure to try lower temp for the par bake next time. 
Edges were left thin because my plan was to add a leaf edge from a half-portion of crust pastry.
Second crust:
Probably overworked the dough because I was in a hurry to combine the leftovers of my first crust pastry with the half-portion I intended for decoration. 
Glass plate and standard temp again,  but I had the sense to freeze the prepped crust pretty long before and I think that helped.
Made edges a lot thicker because miraculously I also had the sense to do this. For this second round only a part of the crust collapsed and only so much that it was still usable. 

Anyway, it tastes lovely, it’s just ugly. 


 

Edited October 23, 2023 by RhaenysBee

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

21 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

Thank you, I’m so grateful to you for this! Probably the most helpful link ever. I did most of these points but far from all, so maybe we are onto something and it’s not the butter after all! 

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not... 

Speaking for myself, If I was having the same problem my money would be on overworking the dough. The hardest thing for me to do when cooking is doing less or doing nothing. 

It's like when I mix up a batch of pancakes. I know it's OK for the batter to be lumpy; that it'll be fine if you just let it sit for a few minutes and do it's thing; that if you overdo it you'll get dense, limp shingles of sadness and not nice, fluffy pancakes. 

But goddamnit, I can't not give it another stir.. and another...

I have this irrational fear that I'm going to bite into a pancake and get a mouthful of powder.

[RhaenysBee]

9 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not... 

Speaking for myself, If I was having the same problem my money would be on overworking the dough. The hardest thing for me to do when cooking is doing less or doing nothing. 

It's like when I mix up a batch of pancakes. I know it's OK for the batter to be lumpy; that it'll be fine if you just let it sit for a few minutes and do it's thing; that if you overdo it you'll get dense, limp shingles of sadness and not nice, fluffy pancakes. 

But goddamnit, I can't not give it another stir.. and another...

I have this irrational fear that I'm going to bite into a pancake and get a mouthful of powder.

It’s not  I was genuinely delighted  (let’s blame written communication and not go into why the internet perceives me as a bitch all the time  ) 

anyway, I 100% (without sarcasm) sympathize with the obsessive overdoing of cooking and baking. I overcook everything. Because somewhere along the way I developed a good safety anxiety and my brain thinks that heat treatment is the solution to that. I just can’t let it be  I’m a mental case really. 

[maarsen]

3 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I think women can get into fist-fights over butter v lard. Lard for better flakiness and easier to work with, butter for taste. The butter has to be very, very cold.

The problem is finding good lard, and not stuff that’s been hydrogenated.

Actual lard rather than shortening is the trick. Shortening is a pain in the ass for pie crusts.

[maarsen]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

That wasn't a problem for the women of this farming community.  If one didn't have lard from one's own pigs and geese, one got it from a neighbor, who is also a member of the PTA, the Homemakers' Clubs, one's congregation, whose kids all go to school together, etc.

My mom made everything herself, including lard. She grew up in the Netherlands during the Nazi occupation and told me stories of making soap and growing tobacco for black market cigarettes.

[Fragile Bird]

28 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Actual lard rather than shortening is the trick. Shortening is a pain in the ass for pie crusts.

Lard gets hydrogenated as well. I did not mean shortening. We used to use Crisco all the time when I was growing up, butCrisco fell out of favor once people understood about trans fats.

Oh wait, that’s in the US. Trans fats got banned in Canada in 2018. Mind you, RhaenysBee is in Europe, so the lard there probably isn’t hydrogenated either.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, maarsen said:

Actual lard rather than shortening is the trick. Shortening is a pain in the ass for pie crusts.

My mom and community sneered at Crisco for pie crusts.

I also remember when it started to be in the news that Crisco was bad for arteries, etc., and she and her friends trying to figure out what to do.

As for me, I began using olive oil as soon as I left home.  I haven't given up butter, not even now, but there have been literally years in which I never used it or consumed it at all, not even for toast or anything.  Asap I navigated to the Mediterranean diet, which then went even further, w/o meat, for whole long spans too.  I AM NOT A VEGETARIAN. Or a Vegan.

We just have gone through long stretches, not all at the same time, of not eating certain things, including even bread and cheese, which I, at least adore.  For...reasons.  Two - three times a week, salad is our main meal (unless the weather is in a very cold streak). Since my pre-teen years, sugar*/desserts seem to have left my diet, more or less, which isn't to say, when presented with a great one, I'm not there! This seems to have worked well for us, so far anyway.  No problems with HBP, cholesterol, etc.  Or, you know, just luck of the genetic draw.

* Considering our wine consumption though, this doesn't mean much, does it? 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

You know, debating the relative health impacts of lard vs. Crisco is all well and good, but we're talking about fucking dessert here. The distinction is the moral equivalent of cutting back to half a pack a day. That or eat a bowl of fruit.

It's all about frequency and dosage. If you're eating so much pie that your intake of trans fats are a genuine issue, you've got way, way bigger problems that won't be solved by removing trans fats. Pie is lovely. It makes me feel good. If I get the sense I'm feeling too good, I'm probably eating too much.* 

I recently saw a video from a  cake baking youtube channel for "low sugar" butter creme frosting.** "Oh." I thought. "I love butter creme frosting. So buttery. So creamy. I will watch this."

I was fucking horrified. "There's how much sugar in this?!? This is the low sugar version?!?"

*Speaking of pie crust. Sorghum flour has no gluten in it and might make for a good partial substitute

** The recipe also called for half a cup of shortening.