Star Trek: I miss Hemmer (spoilers)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Burnham's Batman/Littlefinger voice in the later seasons is also bizarre

What?

[Spockydog]

My brother calls it Whisperboarding.

i.e. Once again, Michael Burnham resolves the plot by whisperboarding a galaxy-threatening threat into submission.

Edited May 2 by Spockydog

[Werthead]

35 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What?

In later seasons, particularly 4, Burnham develops a very strange way of speaking, a sort of whisper-rasping thing. It's not quite as bad as Aidan Gillen's inexplicable Batman voice as Littlefinger in later seasons of GoT, but it is equally inexplicable that they both use their perfectly fine, normal human speaking voices in earlier seasons and abruptly switch 2 or 3 seasons in for absolutely no apparent reason.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

In later seasons, particularly 4, Burnham develops a very strange way of speaking, a sort of whisper-rasping thing. It's not quite as bad as Aidan Gillen's inexplicable Batman voice as Littlefinger in later seasons of GoT, but it is equally inexplicable that they both use their perfectly fine, normal human speaking voices in earlier seasons and abruptly switch 2 or 3 seasons in for absolutely no apparent reason.

Ah… I hadn’t noticed that.

[IlyaP]

7 hours ago, Werthead said:

A lot of the weaknesses Discovery had are shared by Strange New Worlds, but it seems to get a pass on those things because of Anson Mount's hair.

Anson Mount is, to be fair, very easy on the eyes. 

[Ran]

14 hours ago, Werthead said:

A lot of the weaknesses Discovery had are shared by Strange New Worlds,

Such as? I quit Discovery because of the bathos, every character relationship seemed fraught with melodrama. It was very soapy. SNW is generally lighter with this stuff, more adroit at it, and basically just more actual fun. Also more coherent, narratively.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Such as? I quit Discovery because of the bathos, every character relationship seemed fraught with melodrama. It was very soapy. SNW is generally lighter with this stuff, more adroit at it, and basically just more actual fun. Also more coherent, narratively.

I really enjoyed Discovery Season 4… I’m enjoying… Season 5.  Commander Raynor is a fun addition and he points out the… over familiarity… of Discovery’s crew can be problematic.

[Werthead]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

Such as? I quit Discovery because of the bathos, every character relationship seemed fraught with melodrama. It was very soapy. SNW is generally lighter with this stuff, more adroit at it, and basically just more actual fun. Also more coherent, narratively.

A similar perchance for pulling solutions to problems out of their arses (not something Star Trek has shied away from in the past, but now it's just the automatic resolution to almost every problem), the similarly murky WTF-is-happening CGI, and an almost palpable contempt for any kind of canon or continuity (i.e. their treatment of Khan, the Gorn, the size of the ship etc).

I do agree it's batting average is moderately higher than Discovery and the smaller cast where they mix out the storylines more fairly is better, but it's not like there's some vast yawning gulf of quality between the two shows (and the soapy elements are present and correct with Pike's relationship drama, Spock's relationship drama, Chapel's relationship drama, everyone's relationship drama).

[Lord Varys]

8 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I really enjoyed Discovery Season 4… I’m enjoying… Season 5.  Commander Raynor is a fun addition and he points out the… over familiarity… of Discovery’s crew can be problematic.

Have to say the over familiarity is kind of strange as I still can't barely remember what Detmer ever did. I remember she didn't even have a name in season 1, no? And the cyborg woman they all grieved for again now was even worse.

The deep emotional bond between Saru and Burnham and Burnham and Tilly makes sense. And the relationship of Culber and Stamets. But the other people didn't spend all that much time together, all things considered. Especially not with the new guys, i.e. Burnham and Tilly.

But I do like that guy as well.

Had to laugh in the last episode how Culber talked about surviving literal death. I mean, if they want us to take that seriously then the guy should be on permanent leave getting proper future treatment since they arrived there season 3. No person going through that should continue to work as a physician.

7 hours ago, Werthead said:

A similar perchance for pulling solutions to problems out of their arses (not something Star Trek has shied away from in the past, but now it's just the automatic resolution to almost every problem), the similarly murky WTF-is-happening CGI, and an almost palpable contempt for any kind of canon or continuity (i.e. their treatment of Khan, the Gorn, the size of the ship etc).

I do agree it's batting average is moderately higher than Discovery and the smaller cast where they mix out the storylines more fairly is better, but it's not like there's some vast yawning gulf of quality between the two shows (and the soapy elements are present and correct with Pike's relationship drama, Spock's relationship drama, Chapel's relationship drama, everyone's relationship drama).

Would agree that SNW is worse in that capacity in season 2. What makes it better than Discovery is the more episodic storytelling which allows for a broader scope of episodes and a better exploration of various characters.

The entire plot of Discovery's season 4 could have been a two-parter ... and not a very strange and silly plot dragged out for that long. And the Burn was pretty much the same, just as 'divine tech' is this time.

[Ser Lany]

On 5/2/2024 at 7:09 PM, Werthead said:

In later seasons, particularly 4, Burnham develops a very strange way of speaking, a sort of whisper-rasping thing. It's not quite as bad as Aidan Gillen's inexplicable Batman voice as Littlefinger in later seasons of GoT, but it is equally inexplicable that they both use their perfectly fine, normal human speaking voices in earlier seasons and abruptly switch 2 or 3 seasons in for absolutely no apparent reason.

I just thought Butnham had gotten all zen on us. She does seem calmer, less impulsive, like she has fully grown into her leadership role. It's the "captain" voice,  So while I thought it weird, I did come up with a reason for it. (ok, it's still weird)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On 5/3/2024 at 5:12 PM, Lord Varys said:

The entire plot of Discovery's season 4 could have been a two-parter ... and not a very strange and silly plot dragged out for that long. And the Burn was pretty much the same, just as 'divine tech' is this time.

I disagree.  I like longer form storytelling.  Going back and watching TNG and Voyager… the “reset” button used in almost every episode was very frustrating.

[Ser Lany]

20 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I disagree.  I like longer form storytelling.  Going back and watching TNG and Voyager… the “reset” button used in almost every episode was very frustrating.

I think part of the switch from episodic to serial shows is the number of episodes they have. Back in the day, every show had a minimum of 22-26 episodes, some many more, and would drag out over 9 months, for 1 season. 

Now, seems the majority of shows are coming in around 10 episodes per season, only lasting 10 weeks, or fewer, so it iis easier to have one unified plot through out the season.

I never minded the "missions" being episodic, as long as the characters were treated more serial (as in their continually developing and progressing relationships)  

Edited May 9 by Ser Lany

[Lord Varys]

12 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I disagree.  I like longer form storytelling.  Going back and watching TNG and Voyager… the “reset” button used in almost every episode was very frustrating.

I do like that, too ... but Discovery last three seasons had arguably a very bad way of doing it with lots of filler episodes and, especially, last season a huge buildup to solve a problem that shouldn't have been real in the first place.

I mean, honestly, which highly evolved civilization would treat an entire galaxy as 'uninhabited' or 'devoid of sentient life' in the first place? How stupid to do you have to be to do that? Especially if the entire point of their enterprise is to get some fuel for their devices. We had a huge threat, very complicated contact issues to overcome ... and then the finale didn't exactly deliver.

A first contact scenario especially works better in a shorter, more condensed way of story-telling as this would also highlight the fact that the linguistic/technological capabilities of 31st century are more developed - which they would be - than they were back in the 23rd century.

The same is true to a lesser degree for the Burn. Or now with the look for 'god tech' which is likely not to really deliver on the true implications of such technology, either. The episode about the time bug was the very definition of a filler episode. The plot didn't advance at all and whatever personal relationship developments we had there could have just as well taken place in an episode advancing the plot.

From the very beginning Discovery made the mistake to make pretty much every season about a galaxy destroying threat. Klingon War destroying the Federation, evil tech running amok, chaos caused by the destruction of all fuel, planet-destroying aliens, and now god tech with the potential to destroy everything.

This always puts the characters into a position where everything is hanging by a thread, and that definitely also warps or affects normal relationships, making their casual conversations about themselves and their feelings weirder than they would be in a different setting. The kind of pressure you are under when you are trying to save literally everything is quite different from the normal Starfleet service.

[fionwe1987]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I mean, honestly, which highly evolved civilization would treat an entire galaxy as 'uninhabited' or 'devoid of sentient life' in the first place?

Are you seriously asking this question belonging to the human civilization? We've ignored and continue to ignore the sentience of scads of species, mine and log and establish monocultures while wiping out entire ecosystems that are beneath our notice. 

Why are you under the impression this will go down with technological advancement? We're currently discussing sending humans to Mars, without knowing if there are bacterial or other single celled species already there, guaranteeing contamination with our own single celled organisms that will happily go for the ride and adapt to local conditions if they can sustain life!

This seems to be a trend with you. You seem to expect characters and cultures to show a level of wisdom and intelligence that we ourselves do not possess, and claim it is "unrealistic" that they do not. 

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

This always puts the characters into a position where everything is hanging by a thread, and that definitely also warps or affects normal relationships, making their casual conversations about themselves and their feelings weirder than they would be in a different setting. The kind of pressure you are under when you are trying to save literally everything is quite different from the normal Starfleet service.

This I agree with, but its worth noting there's less of a "galaxy ending" vibe with this season. 

[sifth]

So any news when Strange New Worlds is coming back? It really sucks that we're probably not getting any new episodes, this year, because of the strike.

Edited May 10 by sifth

[Derfel Cadarn]

Been doing a chronological Trek rewatch  (finished a curated Enterprise rewatch), and now onto Discovery season 2. Was amused by the ep where a ‘virus’ fucks up thr universal translator and everyone starts speaking Spanish and other language. Also weird that Starfleet’s response to the arrival of a genocidal despot from another universe was to give her a job.

After Disc season 2, I’ll move onto my first-time watch of Strange New Worlds. I’ve not watched seasons 3 and 4 of Discovery yet but I’ll save them until season 5 is on blu-ray

Edited Monday at 07:36 PM by Derfel Cadarn

[Lord Varys]

On 5/9/2024 at 6:09 PM, fionwe1987 said:

Are you seriously asking this question belonging to the human civilization? We've ignored and continue to ignore the sentience of scads of species, mine and log and establish monocultures while wiping out entire ecosystems that are beneath our notice. 

We talk a pretty advanced society here, one who apparently has the tech to harvest 'fuel' by crushing planets ... yet you want to believe they are too dumb to, you know, perhaps assume the planets they are crushing are inhabited by creatures like they themselves are? We are not talking about them killing lifeforms they didn't give a damn about but entire planets which could, as they themselves live(d) on a planet, could include all kinds of species similar to themselves.

That is just nonsense. If they had portrayed the aliens as beings who just didn't care about 'lesser beings' the plot could have worked to a point ... but they were portrayed as morons who didn't know what their tech did. Once they knew they immediately agreed to stop, find alternatives, etc.

That was silly.

On 5/9/2024 at 6:09 PM, fionwe1987 said:

This seems to be a trend with you. You seem to expect characters and cultures to show a level of wisdom and intelligence that we ourselves do not possess, and claim it is "unrealistic" that they do not.

I do expect the writers of an SF show to think before they write and to try to create believable scenarios.  

On 5/9/2024 at 6:09 PM, fionwe1987 said:

This I agree with, but its worth noting there's less of a "galaxy ending" vibe with this season. 

God tech means that is on the table. There could be devices there to destroy all humanoid life, for instance. That we just saw a potential future of crushed ships doesn't mean galactic annihilation is not on the table.